[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Hunter Information

[Renley]

I meant, has Blizzard indicated in any way that this is a placeholder and they're still reviewing it? Sorry, thought that was obvious.

EDIT: And technically it's PTR, not Beta

They've made no indication at changing it. And technically, PTR changes happen after Beta changes, so it is Beta.

It's still not a choice, it's just an extra step you have to take every single time you need to steady/cobra on the move. If you're making the 'choice' to just stay in one aspect or the other, than you're a bad player.

AKA choice. You can choose to be an excellent hunter, knowing when/where/how long to use Fox/Hawk/Cheetah. Just like Ferals can either go for more damage(cat) or switch to survival mode(bear). Or any of the other 'sacrifices' built into the other classes. The point is, the choice is there for a reason. If there was no extra step as you put it, there would be lots of problems. Imagine us being able to sit in one aspect that allowed us to do full damage while moving constantly. That's unfair. No other ranged can do that. Why should we be able to? That's where Fox comes in. We can attack while moving, but we'd have to sacrifice 10% of our attack power and even 15% reduced damage. The trade off works.

[Kalcheus]

Unless we're talking PVP-only, I don't feel aspect dancing is the difference between an excellent and a bad hunter. Maybe a top-of-the-meters on HC versus a mid-meter HC, but unless I'm completely misremembering the expansion I don't recall it being a factor (read: not aspect dancing results in a greater than 1% dps loss) on many fights.

[Renley]

Unless we're talking PVP-only, I don't feel aspect dancing is the difference between an excellent and a bad hunter. Maybe a top-of-the-meters on HC versus a mid-meter HC, but unless I'm completely misremembering the expansion I don't recall it being a factor (read: not aspect dancing results in a greater than 1% dps loss) on many fights.

Oh I was talking about PvP. PvE you dont ever have to be in Fox for longer than a few seconds, so that damage difference is negligible. But PvP, knowing how and when to Fox it up does make a big difference imo. I mean, its not something thats game breakingly good to know, but it helps. Regardless, I highly doubt Fox and Hawk will change.

[Godspeed]

Why is caping focus for a second or two such a big deal? I understand it becomes a wasted focus, but are you sure that you would be able to use Fervor on every CD where it wouldn't cap you at one point?

It's very hard to manage these things properly, and from my perspective ToTH gives you more freedom which,at least in PvE sense, is more valuable since it allows you to concentrate more on other things as well and not just focus management.

[Dracodraco]

Been testing the heroic raid encounters - currently, Surv seems to be the spec I can deal the most damage with (testing lei shi heroic in 496 average, I was laying consistently at 120K or so DPS). Toth is also far more usefull in its current form than Fervor, because it allows for *incredible* mobility, along with having a very decent proc rate.

[Deleted]

The comparison to feral doesn't really work; they don't go bear to regen energy. Largely it's an offensive/defensive decision which therefore has a much slower cycle. In PvP we have to switch so often as to make the mechanic really tiresome.

Tosan macros aspects......

It'll be bearable if our focus regen ends up being decent which it mostly wasn't In Cata.

[Godspeed]

That is some insane dps Dracodraco. I have just seen Method's normal kill and no one was above 50k+. Fraps it next time please

[Renley]

Why is caping focus for a second or two such a big deal? I understand it becomes a wasted focus, but are you sure that you would be able to use Fervor on every CD where it wouldn't cap you at one point?

It's very hard to manage these things properly, and from my perspective ToTH gives you more freedom which,at least in PvE sense, is more valuable since it allows you to concentrate more on other things as well and not just focus management.

With Fervor its pretty easy to not focus cap, as you wont be using Steady/Cobra as often.

The comparison to feral doesn't really work; they don't go bear to regen energy. Largely it's an offensive/defensive decision which therefore has a much slower cycle. In PvP we have to switch so often as to make the mechanic really tiresome.

Tosan macros aspects......

It'll be bearable if our focus regen ends up being decent which it mostly wasn't In Cata.

We don't switch to Fox for more focus regen, we switch to it for mobility/survivability(kiting). Either way, the comparison works. Its all about sacrifice. They sac damage for surviving, we sac damage for mobility/surviving. As for our focus regen, its much better in MoP(baselines 14 per Steady/Cobra, 3 more per shot for MM, 3 per 3 seconds for SV, and 20 focus(iirc) on pet crits at a % chance[I think, have to double check that]). Kiting, though, will remain the same.

Been testing the heroic raid encounters - currently, Surv seems to be the spec I can deal the most damage with (testing lei shi heroic in 496 average, I was laying consistently at 120K or so DPS). Toth is also far more usefull in its current form than Fervor, because it allows for *incredible* mobility, along with having a very decent proc rate.

Wow, thats pretty high. Is this with spamming Cobra, or is AS doing more than it now? How does MM and BM compare?

[Godspeed]

Judging by your progress and arena achievements Aettis, I am not sure if I can take you seriously tbh. Anyway, I stand by my conclusion.

[Deleted]

We don't switch to Fox for more focus regen, we switch to it for mobility/survivability(kiting). Either way, the comparison works. Its all about sacrifice. They sac damage for surviving, we sac damage for mobility/surviving. As for our focus regen, its much better in MoP(baselines 14 per Steady/Cobra, 3 more per shot for MM, 3 per 3 seconds for SV, and 20 focus(iirc) on pet crits at a % chance[I think, have to double check that]). Kiting, though, will remain the same.

I'm intrigued as to what sort of PvP you indulge in where you're allowed to stand still? Or that your damage is strong enough to allow sitting in Fox for any length of time? It just isn't the case and as a result you're forced To switch very often which is enormously dull unless you use macros. There is no comparison between how often PvP hunters switch aspects and how often ferals switch between cat and bear currently. There just isn't and I'm surprised you're trying to hold this point sir.

[Renley]

I'm intrigued as to what sort of PvP you indulge in where you're allowed to stand still? Or that your damage is strong enough to allow sitting in Fox for any length of time? It just isn't the case and as a result you're forced very often which is enormously dull unless you use macros. There is no comparison between how often PvP hunters switch aspects and how often ferals switch between cat and bear currently. There just isn't and I'm surprised you're trying to hold this point sir.

Oh, Im not saying we do it as often, sorry if it seems this way. I do think it sucks and is boring having to switch from Fox to Hawk to Fox to Hawk constantly, can't lie. I'm just trying to give the reasoning(or what I assume) why its like that and won't likely change. The comparison between us and feral was just for the sake of showing the whole 'sacrifice' thing. If Fox and Hawk didn't exist and we didn't have to make that switch all the time, we'd be incredibly powerful and essentially never have to stop moving. Because we're this oddball hybrid of a caster and physical DPS, we have these restrictions, ya know?

---------- Post added 2012-07-23 at 12:56 AM ----------

Judging by your progress and arena achievements Aettis, I am not sure if I can take you seriously tbh. Anyway, I stand by my conclusion.

Yeah, I'm not a top end raider, and I dont do a lot of Arena(though, this is due to me not being in the PvP scene veyr much in the last year/new toon). I still do watch several hunter PvP videos(Braindeadly, Garxz, Triple D, Zumio, etc), research, etc. For the Fervor vs TotH thing, I did a lot of testing several pages back with staggering Fervor and Dire Beast. I focus capped a few times as BM(due to the huge focus return from our pet), rarely as SV, and a couple times as MM. It's pretty easy to not focus cap, however as MM, this was a huge letdown due to the little use of MMM(since smaller amount of Steady Shots were used).

[Dracodraco]

That is some insane dps Dracodraco. I have just seen Method's normal kill and no one was above 50k+. Fraps it next time please

Eh, would have to download it etc - suffice to say, I expect that Method's normal kill hasn't got them in "496" gear (there's a raid buff that raises all your items to that average level, in order to test the bosses). That would probably make up for some of the difference. Remember that I was also under my cooldowns for about a fourth of the fight, as we never managed to get through the "GET AWAY" cast - it is *ridicolously* overpowered in heroic (we managed to get her to 200M out of 250M health - she has 70M in method's normal kill).
It's very possible that I'd be more stable at 100K-110K dps when I spend another minute without my CD's.
(And method only has one good hunter, Rogerbrown, anyway. Dabearz/justwaitz/hentrenson aren't all that impressive, I'm guessing their forces are in other areas (leadership, aviability, etc) which a top guild values. Really, the "top end" guilds doesn't have better players on average than most top 100 guilds do, they just have players that are able to take the time out of their schedule.).

With Fervor its pretty easy to not focus cap, as you wont be using Steady/Cobra as often.



We don't switch to Fox for more focus regen, we switch to it for mobility/survivability(kiting). Either way, the comparison works. Its all about sacrifice. They sac damage for surviving, we sac damage for mobility/surviving. As for our focus regen, its much better in MoP(baselines 14 per Steady/Cobra, 3 more per shot for MM, 3 per 3 seconds for SV, and 20 focus(iirc) on pet crits at a % chance[I think, have to double check that]). Kiting, though, will remain the same.



Wow, thats pretty high. Is this with spamming Cobra, or is AS doing more than it now? How does MM and BM compare?

Playing it exactly like on Live, while weaving in Murder of Crows and taking advantage of the Thrill of the Hunt procs. I don't have my focus bar (it won't work for some reason), so my focus handling is pretty damn awfull, too - I'm sure I can improve *alot*.
I didn't bring a BM spec, but MM was significantly behind (talking 10-15% or so) - this may very well be due to the fact that I'm much more used to survival, and I couldn't control my focus, though. It's nothing more than general observations so far .

[Tannon]

Yeah, I'm not a top end raider, and I don't do a lot of Arena(though, this is due to me not being in the PvP scene very much ...... etc.

No need to defend yourself Aettis, the amount of work you have put into this thread thus far allows you to ignore people trying to call you on arena and achievements. That and this thread is about MOP hunter information, so I find it just a tad ironic that some people who bring up this other ....
"I am not sure if I can take them seriously tbh."

[Renley]

Eh, would have to download it etc - suffice to say, I expect that Method's normal kill hasn't got them in "496" gear (there's a raid buff that raises all your items to that average level, in order to test the bosses). That would probably make up for some of the difference. Remember that I was also under my cooldowns for about a fourth of the fight, as we never managed to get through the "GET AWAY" cast - it is *ridicolously* overpowered in heroic (we managed to get her to 200M out of 250M health - she has 70M in method's normal kill).
It's very possible that I'd be more stable at 100K-110K dps when I spend another minute without my CD's.
(And method only has one good hunter, Rogerbrown, anyway. Dabearz/justwaitz/hentrenson aren't all that impressive, I'm guessing their forces are in other areas (leadership, aviability, etc) which a top guild values. Really, the "top end" guilds doesn't have better players on average than most top 100 guilds do, they just have players that are able to take the time out of their schedule.).


Playing it exactly like on Live, while weaving in Murder of Crows and taking advantage of the Thrill of the Hunt procs. I don't have my focus bar (it won't work for some reason), so my focus handling is pretty damn awfull, too - I'm sure I can improve *alot*.
I didn't bring a BM spec, but MM was significantly behind (talking 10-15% or so) - this may very well be due to the fact that I'm much more used to survival, and I couldn't control my focus, though. It's nothing more than general observations so far .

I'd be very interested in you trying BM if you could! Even if you're not the best at it. Im just interested in rough numbers. Last I checked, it was way behind due to pet scalign, but i think thats fixed. And thats a lot behind for MM. Is Arcane Shot still hitting less than Cobra? Might be why MM is so far behind(if I had to take a guess).

No need to defend yourself Aettis, the amount of work you have put into this thread thus far allows you to ignore people trying to call you on arena and achievements. That and this thread is about MOP hunter information, so I find it just a tad ironic that some people who bring up this other ....
"I am not sure if I can take them seriously tbh."

Well, he has a point. I'm not the most progressed hunter right now. I work hard to do well at what I do, and try to make sure the things I talk about are as close to right as possible though. *shrugs*

[Dracodraco]

I'd be very interested in you trying BM if you could! Even if you're not the best at it. Im just interested in rough numbers. Last I checked, it was way behind due to pet scalign, but i think thats fixed. And thats a lot behind for MM. Is Arcane Shot still hitting less than Cobra? Might be why MM is so far behind(if I had to take a guess).




Well, he has a point. I'm not the most progressed hunter right now. I work hard to do well at what I do, and try to make sure the things I talk about are as close to right as possible though. *shrugs*

I'll load up the dummies and try it out for a bit. Let me check back in 10 minutes :P.

And I doubt I'm particularly "bad" at either of the specs - pretty sure I'm still the only hunter that's been in the top 10 on Ultraxion HC for every spec at the same time (1 BM, 3 MM, 7 SV - ranks have obviously gone down now, started out as 1 MM and 3 SV :<).

[Arrowset]

That was a great idea someone had above about making aimed shot apply the widow venom effect. MM needs a pvp buff and niche, and that wouldn't be OP because there's only so many pvp situations where you can get off an aimed shot.

[Renley]

I'll load up the dummies and try it out for a bit. Let me check back in 10 minutes :P.

And I doubt I'm particularly "bad" at either of the specs - pretty sure I'm still the only hunter that's been in the top 10 on Ultraxion HC for every spec at the same time (1 BM, 3 MM, 7 SV - ranks have obviously gone down now, started out as 1 MM and 3 SV :<).

Oh doh, I din't mean to suggest you were bad. I meant worse. Poor choice of words on my part. Sorry bud!

Edit: I guess I didnt even say bad. Ignore me. You're amazing Draco. <3

[Godspeed]

I am sure a lot of people appreciate Aettis's work, but if you put some info out there it doesn't mean you are always right because of it, but it certainly is appreciated.

I was ranked 1 as SV on Ultraxion HC and few others I think (10 man), and was ranked among top 10 on every boss in DS (not sure about spine, I think I was ranked in top 10 as MM there) until I stopped playing completely.

You can check this on raidbots . com/epeenbot/eu/silvermoon/strawa/

[Arhippa]

Are you sure about the 120k ? Really doesn't sound right to me, as that is roughly twice the amount I'm used to seeing so far from the normal mode tests.

And I doubt I'm particularly "bad" at either of the specs - pretty sure I'm still the only hunter that's been in the top 10 on Ultraxion HC for every spec at the same time (1 BM, 3 MM, 7 SV - ranks have obviously gone down now, started out as 1 MM and 3 SV :<).

Getting high ranks early on has a lot to do with how fast your guild progresses as well as how lucky you are. I was rank 2 BM hunter on Yor'sahj 25hc the first week.

...there were only 2 BM hunter logs on that fight at that point.

[Renley]

I am sure a lot of people appreciate Aettis's work, but if you put some info out there it doesn't mean you are always right because of it, but it certainly is appreciated.

I was ranked 1 as SV on Ultraxion HC and few others I think (10 man), and was ranked among top 10 on every boss in DS (not sure about spine, I think I was ranked in top 10 as MM there) until I stopped playing completely.

You can check this on raidbots . com/epeenbot/eu/silvermoon/strawa/

Very nice. I placed top 100 on a couple fights early on, but I know thats not that special. I'd really like to get into a serious raiding guild again, but I always miss the companionship that comes with the more casual groups. Maybe in MoP I can find one.

And I'm always open to criticism Speed. I greatly enjoy these ramblings/arguments/discussions. Like you said, I'm not always right. And when thats the case, please bring me down to Earth. I'd rather be corrected and know better for the future, than continue looking/sounding like a derpasaurus.