U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[Naxere]

Millionaires and billionaires =/= the companies that make them their profits.

Millionaires and billionaires, at current, pay effective tax rates lower than lower tax bracket people.

Millionaires and billionaires control something like 90% of the money in this country, while the lower 40% of the people on the payscale control less than 5% between them. The money doesn't trickle down, ever. They're stuck living paycheck to paycheck.

Then first close the loopholes that allow them to do that. If that still isn't enough, then ask them to pay more. Just don't complain if they decide to take their business or investments elsewhere.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/48120446/In_M...Out_Rich_Study


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/o...qGOYw30sbfgU1H



http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/s...rticle=9765589

[Wells]

Oh are we mixing personal income tax rates and corporate tax rates again? Charming.

[Chrysia]

Then first close the loopholes that allow them to do that. If that still isn't enough, then ask them to pay more. Just don't complain if they decide to take their business or investments elsewhere.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/48120446/In_M...Out_Rich_Study


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/o...qGOYw30sbfgU1H



http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/s...rticle=9765589

You honestly think millionaires and billionaires will flee the nation to avoid a slight national tax-hike?

I'm also not saying closing the loop-holes is bad.

You are mixing corporate profit and the personal wealth of the CEO's of the company.

Obama has nothing against corporate profit. His only concern is an exorbitant amount of that profit goes to CEO's and investors, and very little of it goes back into the business and the economy.

[Ausr]

I remember millionaires and billionaires being taxed a helluva lot more during the 1950/60s and they were still rich as hell. Don't remember them fleeing.

[Slammin Shaman]

Oh are we mixing personal income tax rates and corporate tax rates again? Charming.

But corporations are people too! So they should pay the same tax rate as their owners! Because that logic is infallible /sarcasm

[Naxere]

You honestly think millionaires and billionaires will flee the nation to avoid a slight national tax-hike?

I'm also not saying closing the loop-holes is bad.

You are mixing corporate profit and the personal wealth of the CEO's of the company.

Obama has nothing against corporate profit. His only concern is an exorbitant amount of that profit goes to CEO's and investors, and very little of it goes back into the business and the economy.

They probably won't flee the nation, no, but at what point is it high enough? If you live in Los Angeles and make a million dollars, you already have the highest sales tax in the nation alongside the second highest income tax (and I hear ol' Jerry is looking to raise that further with Prop 30). Now they're asking you to pay more federal income tax. Is a 50% tax rate acceptable?


If you were the President, how much would you tax the highest income earners? I hear a lot of criticism from the people on the left on this board, but very rarely do they seem to bring any actual solutions to the discussion.

[obdigore]

They probably won't flee the nation, no, but at what point is it high enough? If you live in Los Angeles and make a million dollars, you already have the highest sales tax in the nation alongside the second highest income tax (and I hear ol' Jerry is looking to raise that further with Prop 30). Now they're asking you to pay more federal income tax. Is a 50% tax rate acceptable?


If you were the President, how much would you tax the highest income earners? I hear a lot of criticism from the people on the left on this board, but very rarely do they seem to bring any actual solutions to the discussion.

And what is their effective tax rate? And what is the effective tax rate of the middle income in those same places?

Here is a post on a website I generally disagree with, but enjoy it http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-...ss-tax-rate-75

[Naxere]

Not a slippery slope per se, I'm just asking at what point do people feel that taxes are too high? France's 75% rate on top earners?

[Wells]

Does it matter? No one is proposing anything even close to that.

[Naxere]

Does any of the discussion on this board matter? I'd like to hear what people are comfortable with as a top tax rate for curiousity's sake.

[Naxere]

I like our current progressive system. I think as long as some of the loopholes are closed (and possibly raising the capital gains rate) I'm fine with rates as they are.

[Wells]

Problem is our tax code as a whole isn't terribly progressive. Income tax? Sure. But the income tax doesn't really hit a lot of people who are making a ton of money.

---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 07:21 AM ----------

Well, Clinton-era rates were progressive, too, just a shade higher for everyone.

Keep in mind, when they passed the Bush/Obama tax cuts, they *knew* it was going to destroy the deficit. It's precisely why they intended it to expire in 10 years. And precisely why I'm flabbergasted that they're wanting to make them permanent(both sides), while at the same time having a conniption fit over the debt.

Politicians....

There are pretty legit reasons not to want the parts that the middle class benefit to expire.

[Wells]

Eh states have to deal with local competition on tax policy to a far greater degree than countries do. Its a relatively easy task to move states. Sometimes you're not even moving very far and they always speak the same language, have more or less the same laws, same culture etc etc.

Countries? That's a stickier wicket.

[Chrysia]

Does any of the discussion on this board matter? I'd like to hear what people are comfortable with as a top tax rate for curiousity's sake.

It's tough to pinpoint. I personally don't feel that effective taxation on any tax-bracket should be significantly higher than any other. The only tax-bracket I actually would support giving significant tax-relief to would be those living in poverty.

That being said, I wouldn't mind paying slightly higher taxes if we could get legitimately good public health care, for instance.

I'd also like, as you stated, many of the loopholes that reduce the upper tax bracket's effective tax rate to be closed.

[Wells]

That being said, I wouldn't mind paying slightly higher taxes if we could get legitimately good public health care, for instance.

Especially since this would be in all likelihood a net savings for you. Which is what a lot of people don't get when they compare our tax burdens with those overseas. They're getting a lot for their taxes that we're paying for out of pocket so an honest comparison would match their taxes against ours + the stuff we pay out of pocket for.

[Naxere]

That being said, I wouldn't mind paying slightly higher taxes if we could get legitimately good public health care, for instance.

I agree. I don't think public health care is the boogeyman. Thankfully I'll be leaving the frozen tundra within five to ten years and moving down under so I'll get to experience it first-hand.

[belfpala]

I like our current progressive system. I think as long as some of the loopholes are closed (and possibly raising the capital gains rate) I'm fine with rates as they are.

Which loopholes?

[Chrysia]

Which loopholes?

Theoretically, the higher tax brackets should be paying about the same tax-rate as everyone else. Effectively, their tax rate (federal) is much lower because they have so many ways to tax dodge it's not even funny.

[Naxere]

Which loopholes?

I suppose you could start with this, or maybe this.

[belfpala]

Theoretically, the higher tax brackets should be paying about the same tax-rate as everyone else. Effectively, their tax rate (federal) is much lower because they have so many ways to tax dodge it's not even funny.

I know. I've heard every Presidential Candidate since I was old enough to vote talk about loopholes. I want to know which ones. No one ever says which ones.

---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 04:18 AM ----------

I suppose you could start with this, or maybe this.

Those aren't loopholes, at least not in the way I would use the word. It's just the tax code. Loopholes is a buzzword, nothing more.

That's why I want specifics.