State of Mages [5.2]

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm more concerned about Arcane's damage somehow being overpowered apparently until 5.2. I'm not sure how it is. I mean sure I sometimes top the meters which I like and all that but I'm not sure how we're overpowered. Fire may need a minor buff of some sort since they've been hurt a little bit this time around. As for Frost I have no idea but I haven't seen many Frost mages so maybe they need a buff to. As for talents yeah the level 90 ones need to be done from scratch or adjusted I will give people that.

Other things seem pretty much subjective.

oh and for the love of god dont pull numbers out of your ass saying scorch weaving is 10-15k better than normal rotation.... it really isnt -_- trust me

.....No 10-15k more LOL NO WAY IN THE TWISTING NETHER IS THAT TRUE.

[Polarthief]

N...no, no. Any talent can be good in a different situation, that's what Blizzard wanted. Our third tier is our control tier, which doesn't specifically mean PvP, it just means...control.

Give me ONE legitimate situation where Ring of Frost is good in Tier 14.

Oh right, you can't. Elegon adds float, making ground effects miss them, and RoF takes too long for Lei Shi adds, plus it's not long-term, in addition to you probably missing or them going around it, making it a worthless pick. Ice Ward is moderately useful for Elegon, and FJ is extremely helpful for Lei Shi when you need to get one locked for a bit.

C'mon Swizzle, if you're going to argue a point, at least give a legitimate argument.

Yes i am mana, and i remember you bitching about how fire sucked pre CM nerf saying they're clunky and sucked so bad.... You're always bitching about something. I've had no issue playing frost, fire or arcane. Rotations aren't clunky, if they're boring for you oh well... maybe you just picked the wrong class to play.

First it's clunky
Then it's dps
Now it's "QoL"

I guess this is why i get whispers from other CFT members asking me about mages cause they wonder about you....

I guess that's why we get things invented like the "Mana Shuffle", but now you're just taking this personally. Going to end it here before someone's handed an infraction for derailing and/or harassment.

PS: Just to clarify, you added me to ignore when I took that Mr. Smite's rare spawn after I left the group, and asked if you needed it (because, y'know, we all like to joke?) to which you replied with an ignore.

we cant have nice thing ALL the time....but seriously what do you want from these talents??? every single tier of talents have different tools... if you think 1 cc talents are bad look at shamans...lol

oh and if you do HC raiding im sure you would at least use some cc in raids.......

I'm not even sure how to respond to this without laughing. You ARE joking, right?

@dragon i seriously think you need to look into what mages are capable of. you need to look more in deep to greater invis and cold snap(DAMN that 15% heal nerf) more since its a great tool even in raid. before saying anything please try them out its great tools(not "tools" lol)

oh and for the love of god dont pull numbers out of your ass saying scorch weaving is 10-15k better than normal rotation.... it really isnt -_- trust me

and finally your last question just "mind blown" me.... that has to be one of dumbest thing said...... what swizzle said pretty much -_- there are some "control" in pve but not much

G Invis cheeses one mechanic every 2.5m (1.5m in 5.2) and is an active that you have to pre-emptively hit. Cauterize is a 2m cooldown that activates when you took a little too much damage, and allows you to live through something without worrying about pre-emptively doing anything (e.g., DPS increase, and it's passive, so, safer). Except for fights that actually call for said mechanic cheesers (H Elegon, for example), Cauterize will end up on top. The 1m cooldown nerf on G Invis is just to make them more in line with the theory behind L90 talents (Effort = more DPS. In this case, Effort = more survivability).

Cold Snap on the other hand is just 100% worthless in raiding (*When compared to the other two*) unless you actually need the extra CoC and Frost Nova. Not only is it a piddly weak 30% heal (15% in 5.2), it has the longest cooldown at 3m. A 30% heal will BARELY cheese anything, and sometimes won't even let you live from a few things (also considering it has to be popped AFTER damage is taken, not before, assuming you live through it).

"Not much" = it's used on a few fights, not next to zero. IWard = Decent for Elegon adds. FJ = Decent for Lei Shi. RoF = Worthless. That's by no means "not much", that's "a hair away from ZERO". The fact that I'm responding to you saying I have blown your mind is blowing my mind because I feel like you're playing an entirely different game.
Now if they actually made more fights/mechanics based around control, then, we could see eye to eye. With T14, that's not the case though.

Also, really? Attacking me about the L45 talents? Really? Do you not have any other arguments to back you up besides a pointless debate because it's tied to PvP anyways?

[Keoren]

Give me ONE legitimate situation where Ring of Frost is good in Tier 14.

Oh right, you can't. Elegon adds float, making ground effects miss them, and RoF takes too long for Lei Shi adds, plus it's not long-term, in addition to you probably missing or them going around it, making it a worthless pick. Ice Ward is moderately useful for Elegon, and FJ is extremely helpful for Lei Shi when you need to get one locked for a bit.

I personally use Ring of Frost on Will of the Emperor, Wind Lord Mel'jarak and Lei Shi, and it's still helpful on Tsulong if I don't feel like respeccing away from it for a single fight. When the adds spawn on Lei Shi, we have two mages doing rings one after another (if the add doesn't die during the first one) and a death knight intitially gripping the adds on top of the first one. It works like a charm. Admittedly on Wind Lord it's more of an afterthought to put it down when the first dead wave respawns so there's time for people to CC.

[Polarthief]

I personally use Ring of Frost on Will of the Emperor, Wind Lord Mel'jarak and Lei Shi, and it's still helpful on Tsulong if I don't feel like respeccing away from it for a single fight. When the adds spawn on Lei Shi, we have two mages doing rings one after another (if the add doesn't die during the first one) and a death knight intitially gripping the adds on top of the first one. It works like a charm. Admittedly on Wind Lord it's more of an afterthought to put it down when the first dead wave respawns so there's time for people to CC.

If your comp is really lacking the slows/DPS on Will, sure.

Wind Lord? I really hope you mean Heroic only, otherwise, your whole point is moot. Even then, it's not THAT helpful, though I can't really say for certain until next week when we go for him.

Lei Shi it's okay, but I'd personally prefer Frostjaw because it's guaranteed to hit. I'd just blink and Frost Nova if two are close together, and quickly FJ the third (or second). (This, again, assuming you don't have sufficient CC in your group).

Tsulong... For what? The little adds that should be killed instantly with a breath when done correctly? If not killed instantly, they'll be AoE'd down, which instantly breaks RoF.


This again goes back to the point that they really aren't used in T14. I really don't get why you guys are still going on about the L45 tier when we have bigger issues...

[Soulstrike]

you think ROF is useless wow..........do you like not help your raid at all or something??? (H will, H lee shi comes in mind).and please dont tell me you just said rof cast time is too long lfor lee shi adds ol.....you got alot to learn lol

you still dont know how powerful cold snap is you are making yourself a fool now.....(hence geting nerf)

dead dps cant do damage bro...... you will either pop iceblock/ice barrier when you get cauterize. just predict the damage incoming with greater invis (like sha of fear xman when he does death blossom) if you know when the damage is coming you can reduce it by whopping 90%

I thought the reason we have Tier 3 is to be purely for PvP. Why are there PvP talents mixed with PvEvP tiers? (e.g., IW, Blazing Speed, and Cold Snap) They need to be buffed up to be usable in PvE, but not OP in PvP.

thats what i responding to before you started questioning why we have lvl45 taletns so i told you why (cant have nice thing all the time and different tier talents are different??) and yes im "attacking" you because all the qqs you make is making me facepalm so hard when you dont know half the thing you are qqing about -_-

im done trying to help you understand our talents arent that bad(lvl90 ones could improve but its what we have for now) but since you so ignorant about EVERY SINGLE CHANGES!!!

[Polarthief]

you still dont know how powerful cold snap is you are making yourself a fool now.....(hence geting nerf)

Using IW with Evo glyph, Evo is a 2m cooldown and heals 15% instantly, and another 45% over ~4-5s.

Ice Barrier (without any proccs) will shield you for about 80k or so. With proccs, up to ~150k

I have about 450k HP (give or take). A 30% heal = 135k. On a 3m cooldown.

The fact that you're arguing how powerful Cold Snap is over Cauterize/G Invis just makes me unable to take you seriously in the slightest.
Also, and not putting you down for your grammar, but it's hard to follow you with the large amount of errors in your posts.

im done trying to help you understand our talents arent that bad(lvl90 ones could improve but its what we have for now) but since you so ignorant about EVERY SINGLE CHANGES!!!

I guess that's why the Mage talents are generally disliked, especially the L90 ones. They're meant to be fun, awesome, abilities that you use to feel overpowered. Ours are ANYTHING but.

Also, what changes? If you're referring to changes we've been given during the expansion, I'd love to hear them with the exception of swapping speccs every month or so.

[mrgreenthump]

I'm more concerned about Arcane's damage somehow being overpowered apparently until 5.2. I'm not sure how it is. I mean sure I sometimes top the meters which I like and all that but I'm not sure how we're overpowered. Fire may need a minor buff of some sort since they've been hurt a little bit this time around. As for Frost I have no idea but I haven't seen many Frost mages so maybe they need a buff to. As for talents yeah the level 90 ones need to be done from scratch or adjusted I will give people that.

Other things seem pretty much subjective.

Funny how fire needing a small buff turns into fire needing a big buff as the ptr version of Invocation is quite a big nerf for invocation users..

[Swizzle]

Using IW with Evo glyph, Evo is a 2m cooldown and heals 15% instantly, and another 45% over ~4-5s.

Ice Barrier (without any proccs) will shield you for about 80k or so. With proccs, up to ~150k

I have about 450k HP (give or take). A 30% heal = 135k. On a 3m cooldown.

The fact that you're arguing how powerful Cold Snap is over Cauterize/G Invis just makes me unable to take you seriously in the slightest.
Also, and not putting you down for your grammar, but it's hard to follow you with the large amount of errors in your posts.



I guess that's why the Mage talents are generally disliked, especially the L90 ones. They're meant to be fun, awesome, abilities that you use to feel overpowered. Ours are ANYTHING but.

Also, what changes? If you're referring to changes we've been given during the expansion, I'd love to hear them with the exception of swapping speccs every month or so.

I know you don't PvP a whole bunch...but there's more to the game than PvE, and that's where an off GCD, usable while CCd CD reset+30% heal was too good.

[Xzan]

I guess that's why the Mage talents are generally disliked, especially the L90 ones. They're meant to be fun, awesome, abilities that you use to feel overpowered. Ours are ANYTHING but.

IW is super cool... in PvP at least.
In PvE I gotta agree that the lvl90 talents are giving me insane headaches.

[alucardtnuoc]

If your comp is really lacking the slows/DPS on Will, sure.

Wind Lord? I really hope you mean Heroic only, otherwise, your whole point is moot. Even then, it's not THAT helpful, though I can't really say for certain until next week when we go for him.

Lei Shi it's okay, but I'd personally prefer Frostjaw because it's guaranteed to hit. I'd just blink and Frost Nova if two are close together, and quickly FJ the third (or second). (This, again, assuming you don't have sufficient CC in your group).

Tsulong... For what? The little adds that should be killed instantly with a breath when done correctly? If not killed instantly, they'll be AoE'd down, which instantly breaks RoF.


This again goes back to the point that they really aren't used in T14. I really don't get why you guys are still going on about the L45 tier when we have bigger issues...

Still don't see this bigger issues of yours, what you're pointing out seems to be minor annoyances to you.

RoF can also be used just before MC on heroic viz to instantly stop people from doing anything.

You can, healers stand in middle during protect phase for heroic lei shi so adds run to them with a RoF around them so people can get CC's off and tank can drag the other one away for me to get the debuff on it.

On tsulong, the little adds from the terrors aren't the only things affected by RoF, the unstable sha too can be frozen with RoF.

And for will, frost nova + pet freeze + RoF is enough time so another 2 sets of rages spawn for us to AOE down and have a rogue cloak, a priest disperse or a mage to greater invis soak 4 sparks at once.

[Deleted]

Using IW with Evo glyph, Evo is a 2m cooldown and heals 15% instantly, and another 45% over ~4-5s

You are either insanely lucky or against utter idiots (in PvP) if they let you get off a full Evocation. Simple as.

I have about 450k HP (give or take). A 30% heal = 135k. On a 3m cooldown.

Which is off the GCD; use-able while CC'd; resets CoC AND Nova allowing for a bit more kiting AND gives second block -> you seem to disregard how strong Block is; in both PvP and PvE.

The fact that you're arguing how powerful Cold Snap is over Cauterize/G Invis just makes me unable to take you seriously in the slightest.

You yourself said that G Invis won't be that good until it gets buffed in 5.2

G Invis cheeses one mechanic every 2.5m (1.5m in 5.2) and is an active that you have to pre-emptively hit. Cauterize is a 2m cooldown that activates when you took a little too much damage, and allows you to live through something without worrying about pre-emptively doing anything (e.g., DPS increase, and it's passive, so, safer). Except for fights that actually call for said mechanic cheesers (H Elegon, for example), Cauterize will end up on top.

So by your argument the only real choice to take EVER is Cauterize (besides fights which specifically call for GInvis), which just isn't true, plain and simple. Both Cold Snap and GInvis have their uses in PvE; you probably just haven't found them yet. Just like you haven't found a use for Ring of Frost in PvE, which just makes me laugh.

I guess that's why the Mage talents are generally disliked, especially the L90 ones. They're meant to be fun, awesome, abilities that you use to feel overpowered. Ours are ANYTHING but.

If you *really* believe that talents are there to 'make you feel OP' and you currently DON'T feel that, I have no idea what you're on about. Level 90 talents aside (at least Invo is getting a nice QoL buff in 5.2), I seriously don't understand where you're coming from; really.


For some weird reason you seem to think that Mages are in this 'really bad, dark place' because you can't find a way to enjoy them. If that's indeed the case, re-roll. Please, for the sake of this sub-forum, just re-roll -.-
Stop crying about every little thing you hate and forming ridiculously opinionated posts just because you want your Mage to be godly and untouchable by anything whilst still being incredibly fun to play. You want perfection and that's probably the reason you're unhappy.

You also seem to completely disregard PvP balance from your arguments, making them weaker. If you can't look at the whole picture in your arguments then why even make them because you aren't considering all the variables.

[mrgreenthump]

You are either insanely lucky or against utter idiots (in PvP) if they let you get off a full Evocation. Simple as.


You yourself said that G Invis won't be that good until it gets buffed in 5.2



So by your argument the only real choice to take EVER is Cauterize (besides fights which specifically call for GInvis), which just isn't true, plain and simple. Both Cold Snap and GInvis have their uses in PvE; you probably just haven't found them yet. Just like you haven't found a use for Ring of Frost in PvE, which just makes me laugh.

There are times in pvp that you simply dont get to choose to interupt ones evocation, just as it is with a healer drinking for mana.. So it can and will be done without luck or people being idiots..

But I agree with most you posted.. And certainly with Greater Invis, Atm as it is, its prolly best out of the 3 for PvE, Now sure cauterize is still maybe better for some fights, but as the goal is for people not to die, you will prolly never proc cauterize if you are performing the fight correctly, and even funnier nearly every mage I know doesn't use Greater invis to remove dots on themselves, like the debuff on Blade Lord or healing debuff on Amber shaper..

[Deleted]

There are times in pvp that you simply dont get to choose to interupt ones evocation, just as it is with a healer drinking for mana.. So it can and will be done without luck or people being idiots..

But I agree with most you posted.. And certainly with Greater Invis, Atm as it is, its prolly best out of the 3 for PvE, Now sure cauterize is still maybe better for some fights, but as the goal is for people not to die, you will prolly never proc cauterize if you are performing the fight correctly, and even funnier nearly every mage I know doesn't use Greater invis to remove dots on themselves, like the debuff on Blade Lord or healing debuff on Amber shaper..

Hmm, agree and disagree re Evocation - I rarely see top Mages use it or even get to use it as you are either focused or left untouched as a Mage; or switched on so hard if you don't have block that trying to channel Evocation is near pointless; such is the nature of current Arenas with all-out burst meta. Oh well.

I didn't actually realise that Greater Invis removed Wind Step (me being bad) - using that for sure now. I was aware it removed DoT on Amber Shaper but raiding 25M it's small RNG that you'll get it. My current healthpool is so low though that it's probably worth using.

[Fennixx]

Cold Snap is weak for PvE wether you see it or not. Both cauterize and GInv are miles away. It has some uses but still weak.

BUT

Based on 5.2 nerf looks like it will be a PvP only talent... Which is sad. I really had hope they would stop with this BS. I wish they would tweak talents to be useful and balanced on both PvE and PvP.

-

As for lvl 90 talents. I see 3 issues:
- mana linked to dmg increase (2/3 specs care only about buff, so its maintenance only);
- 2/3 talents limit movement. Modern raiding (and modern raiding tools) are built around the assumption we have to move a lot/at will while keeping mid-high dps (oh, and casters/ranged shouldnt dps on the move? then explain warlocks and hunters please!)
- incanter's ward is weak (and till they remove/fix/change RoP and Invo it will be weaker cause IW doesn't limit movement)

I'd rather see lvl 90 talents redone. Don't like being balanced around some maintenance buff that ALSO limits movement.

[Deleted]

(oh, and casters/ranged shouldnt dps on the move? then explain warlocks and hunters please!)

I dont want to be a warlock or hunter. Im a mage. Thats our uniqueness. We are the artillery. We are standing. If u dont want to stand and fire then reroll but pls stop crying.
As said above: All wants to be a special class and all wants everything like all other classes. Thats biting itself.

[jcdommo]

The cc tier is fine. RoF can be used on will as has been mentioned, and also on Lei Shi as insurance against missed "good" cc against the elementals so they don't punch your healers in the face. Frostjaw is a good backup on Tsulong adds, but other things like roots are superior. I don't care for pvp at all, but I recognize these talents really shine there so I won't discount it.

The real issues with talents are the movement tier, specifically scorch being superior to the other choices in almost every case, the fact that blazing speed is awful in it's current form on live and ptr, and that the level 90 talents actually restrict your character more than they buff it.

[klaps_05]

fire being in the middle = awful for a pure dps class, especially mages.

i dont really care anymore about frost in pvp as as fire atm you can line up 3 100k pyros on people with 10k resi and i prefer to actually cast, even tho just scorch, than spam nether tempest and wait for procs.

[Polarthief]

I know you don't PvP a whole bunch...but there's more to the game than PvE, and that's where an off GCD, usable while CCd CD reset+30% heal was too good.

Swizzle, I'm well aware it's too good in PvP, also because the other two choices are near useless (as Cauterize doesn't work all that well, though it can with coordination and an Ice Block, and G Invis is mostly just good to remove some DoTs). Soulstrike keeps arguing it's too good in PvE, and that's where I can't take him seriously.

You are either insanely lucky or against utter idiots (in PvP) if they let you get off a full Evocation. Simple as.

I guess you missed the point that Soulstrike was arguing Cold Snap was good in PvE, and that my entire stance is about PvE, huh? Also, it's impossible to interrupt an instant cast. Evo instantly ticks you for 15% if you have IW.

Which is off the GCD; use-able while CC'd; resets CoC AND Nova allowing for a bit more kiting AND gives second block -> you seem to disregard how strong Block is; in both PvP and PvE.

Again, more PvP shit when we were talking about PvE...

Also, woah, now we're talking about me disregarding Ice Block? Odd how I haven't said "Ice Block" once in this entire thread.

I know Ice Block is good, but I typically don't need a second one. Helpful as it may be, it boils down to "it's not worth losing G Invis/Cauterize".

You yourself said that G Invis won't be that good until it gets buffed in 5.2

So by your argument the only real choice to take EVER is Cauterize (besides fights which specifically call for GInvis), which just isn't true, plain and simple. Both Cold Snap and GInvis have their uses in PvE; you probably just haven't found them yet. Just like you haven't found a use for Ring of Frost in PvE, which just makes me laugh.

So far out of the fights I've done, G Invis is only good on H Elegon. I've heard it's good on other fights too, I just haven't gotten to them yet, and if you really want a 30% (15%) heal over a safety net like Cauterize, be my guest.

I still don't see a use for RoF in raiding. If it worked on Elegon, THEN I'd see some extreme awesomeness out of it, but it DOESN'T because his adds float. Lei Shi is the only fight where I can see SOME use. Feel free to tell me of other fights as I haven't heard any yet. (Tsulong = useless because the little adds should die instantly from breath and if they don't, they'll get loads of AoE which breaks it instantly. I could see some small use for H Wind Lord, but not much)

[QUOTE=Serene;19835394]If you *really* believe that talents are there to 'make you feel OP' and you currently DON'T feel that, I have no idea what you're on about. Level 90 talents aside (at least Invo is getting a nice QoL buff in 5.2), I seriously don't understand where you're coming from; really.[/QUOTE

I feel that the L60 talents give me a choice of OP-ness, and that's it, though the L90 talents are what's supposed to REALLY make you feel OP. Cauterize does make me feel OP for sure. Cold Snap definitely doesn't, and G Invis does in some situations. Tell me what other talents make YOU feel OP.

For some weird reason you seem to think that Mages are in this 'really bad, dark place' because you can't find a way to enjoy them. If that's indeed the case, re-roll. Please, for the sake of this sub-forum, just re-roll -.-
Stop crying about every little thing you hate and forming ridiculously opinionated posts just because you want your Mage to be godly and untouchable by anything whilst still being incredibly fun to play. You want perfection and that's probably the reason you're unhappy.

You could always ignore my thread. Just saying.

Also by your logic, I guess all other Mages who agree with me should just "re-roll", right? I love Mages. I have since BC (though there were some dark times in Cataclysm, I still loved them then, too), but this is just a mess atm and I'm really surprised there are some who don't see that purely because of our DPS and PvP (where only one specc is really viable in PvP, and relies completely on a dispellable 30s cooldown).

Godly and untouchable? Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

You also seem to completely disregard PvP balance from your arguments, making them weaker. If you can't look at the whole picture in your arguments then why even make them because you aren't considering all the variables.

It's not that I won't completely disregard PvP, it's that when I'm arguing with someone about something PURELY in PvE (e.g., Cold Snap) and then people like you come along telling me "OMG IT'S AMAZING IN PvP HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THIS ANGRYRAGE!!!", out of context, it makes me look like an idiot. However, I DO agree it's good in PvP, but Soulstrike was trying to argue how great it is in PvE, where it's crap. 3m cooldown for a 30% (soon to be 15%) heal isn't worth it to give up G Invis or Cauterize (again, only in PvE).

Hmm, agree and disagree re Evocation - I rarely see top Mages use it or even get to use it as you are either focused or left untouched as a Mage; or switched on so hard if you don't have block that trying to channel Evocation is near pointless; such is the nature of current Arenas with all-out burst meta. Oh well.

I didn't actually realise that Greater Invis removed Wind Step (me being bad) - using that for sure now. I was aware it removed DoT on Amber Shaper but raiding 25M it's small RNG that you'll get it. My current healthpool is so low though that it's probably worth using.

I never said to really fully use it (also keep in mind, my argument with Soulstrike was purely about PvE), but you can ALWAYS get off the instant cast of Evo for 15% HP and 15% MP because, well, it instantly happens. If you get lucky enough for your first tick, that's another 15% HP/MP.

I didn't either, actually. I appreciate that info about G Invis and I plan to work it into our 3-paladins HoP rotation when it hits me.

Cold Snap is weak for PvE wether you see it or not. Both cauterize and GInv are miles away. It has some uses but still weak.

BUT

Based on 5.2 nerf looks like it will be a PvP only talent... Which is sad. I really had hope they would stop with this BS. I wish they would tweak talents to be useful and balanced on both PvE and PvP.

-

As for lvl 90 talents. I see 3 issues:
- mana linked to dmg increase (2/3 specs care only about buff, so its maintenance only);
- 2/3 talents limit movement. Modern raiding (and modern raiding tools) are built around the assumption we have to move a lot/at will while keeping mid-high dps (oh, and casters/ranged shouldnt dps on the move? then explain warlocks and hunters please!)
- incanter's ward is weak (and till they remove/fix/change RoP and Invo it will be weaker cause IW doesn't limit movement)

I'd rather see lvl 90 talents redone. Don't like being balanced around some maintenance buff that ALSO limits movement.

Everything you've said is part of the reason I make these threads.

Also, I haven't said it yet, but I, too, am tired of there being PvP only choices in our talents. If you want to make a PvP TIER, that's fine, but don't hide them in our choices (Cold Snap and IW-for the most part).

I dont want to be a warlock or hunter. Im a mage. Thats our uniqueness. We are the artillery. We are standing. If u dont want to stand and fire then reroll but pls stop crying.
As said above: All wants to be a special class and all wants everything like all other classes. Thats biting itself.

So by your logic, Hunters and Warlocks are like the same class? Okay.

fire being in the middle = awful for a pure dps class, especially mages.

i dont really care anymore about frost in pvp as as fire atm you can line up 3 100k pyros on people with 10k resi and i prefer to actually cast, even tho just scorch, than spam nether tempest and wait for procs.

"Can line up" is actually more like "If you get the stars to align".

[Fennixx]

I dont want to be a warlock or hunter. Im a mage. Thats our uniqueness. We are the artillery. We are standing. If u dont want to stand and fire then reroll but pls stop crying.
As said above: All wants to be a special class and all wants everything like all other classes. Thats biting itself.

This is so 8 years ago.

Dude this is 2013. Most of hard bosses requires a LOT of movement. Being rooted by talents is retard. Being rooted by talents that doesn't give much dps in return is even more retarded.

If 100% uptime of RoP meant 1st on meters then we could talk about this immobile artillery. But it doesn't.

Guess who will replace you if your mage fails to keep high output on the move?

[Polarthief]

This is so 8 years ago.

Dude this is 2013. Most of hard bosses requires a LOT of movement. Being rooted by talents is retard. Being rooted by talents that doesn't give much dps in return is even more retarded.

If 100% uptime of RoP meant 1st on meters then we could talk about this immobile artillery. But it doesn't.

Guess who will replace you if your mage fails to keep high output on the move?

Exactly.

I'm not asking for homogenization. I don't want full mobility with all my spells, but I do want SOME level of mobility. Even just Scorch would be fine, but not when it's mixed with talents that prevent movement as well, and this is the core issue that I really have with Mages in raids (amongst a few other ones, but this is pretty bad)