The reason the U.S. still exists and the USSR doesn't? Freedom. No matter how you look at it, we got it good and better here in America. The fact that we can openly and freely post about this subject on this forum on the internet is proof enough.
The reason the U.S. still exists and the USSR doesn't? Freedom. No matter how you look at it, we got it good and better here in America. The fact that we can openly and freely post about this subject on this forum on the internet is proof enough.
NVM, i should probably read threads further than their title.
I'm fairly certain that they, having lived through the USSR (One was born in the 1930s) would know plenty about it. The younger of them is actually quite technologically savvy and in his 40s so he's not that old.
The fact is that the Soviets had a Constitution that granted some great rights on paper. The problem was it was JUST a piece of paper. If you can explain to me how it's different that the US Executive offices can conduct searches of your person, property or correspondence without a warrant ISN'T near enough as makes no difference to what the USSR did, I am all ears.
Ah you're right. Yours is more akin to a false dilemma. Sorry the wording was wrong.
In truth there exists a vast middle ground between the US of the 1950s and the USSR of the 1950s. To say we're not significantly closer to the USSR in terms of both economic policy AND authoritarian government is just sticking your head in the sand.
The big thing is, Americans will be more inclined to go on a mass fucking rebellion if the US gov't attempted to pull some USSR shit.
We haven't so far... not after the government reserved the right to surveil and search us without warrants... not after they reserved the right to detain us without trial. Is there some breaking point you think we'll reach?
---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 06:02 PM ----------
Does it matter what the fuck it's called? You're insinuating that there's no middle ground between authoritarian Russia and democratic America... and that even if there were we certainly aren't sitting on it.
---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 06:04 PM ----------
This has what, exactly, to do with the authoritarianism of the Soviet government in spite of the Constitution juxtaposed to the US?
I took "most unnerving" to mean it was your biggest point.
Still, why would you intentionally use a phrase you know has not meaning due to the twisting of the source in your argument? Unless, of course, you were trying to provoke a reaction knowing how certain people would react to that phrase.
And sitting here quoting logical fallacies at each other is not really productive either. The US won't end up just like the USSR. The countries are too different, the two cultures are too different, and frankly it's just nonsensical to think we'd end up just like they did.
If they lived through it, than they should probably know better. But then again, two random people aren't exactly the most reliable sources of information.
As for your second statement, it's... fairly hard to explain to someone who has not experienced it. Imagine a system like this:the law works differently with every town you go to. Some areas are understaffed, and the police are nothing more than ineffectual tools who let crime run rampant. Other areas are horribly authoritarian and will arrest you for anything and everything they can merely because they like it. It's one of the reasons why car cams became so popular (as well as insurance fraud prevention). The entire legal system, from the top to the bottom, consists of people pretty much doing whatever they feel is "right," whether it be right by them or the community. Controls within the legal system are minimal and basically consist of "if you don't embaress people higher up you're fine." This is the Russian legal system as it is. I'm not even going to touch on the differences between the beginning of the USSR and modern day America because trying to equate them is pretty much about as ridiculous as you can get in political science and history.
Last edited by Kasierith; 2013-05-16 at 06:07 PM.
That's the point. We tend to think of what happened in the USSR as something that couldn't happen to us. We have a constitution, after all. But what good is that piece of paper when executive orders and congressional legislation (and not amendments) can ignore it? What's the difference between the USSR picking and choosing which parts of its constitution the Law Enforcement would honor... and the US picking and choosing which parts of its constitution LE will honor?
---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 06:11 PM ----------
There remains no slippery slope argument. I never suggested we were completely turning into the USSR. Since when is juxtaposing similarities between a defunct nation and a current nation a logical fallacy?