The lore of 5.4 is so bad...

[Mocha]

the alliance DID win the war. just because a country isnt completely annihilated doesnt mean they didnt win.

the alliance completely and entirely won the pandaren expedition.

saying they didnt is just you being delusional and not wanting to admit the horde lost this war.

You can't defeat some rogue, fanatic, splinter cell that the rest of the faction not only disowned, but is fighting against, and say you defeated the main body. It would be like a foreign country coming to America and winning against one of those backwards hick militias, and then turning around and saying they defeated America.

But delusional...go ahead and keep ignoring the fact that all the main race leaders of the Horde still exists and are still in control of their people (we could argue about the Orcs, but Thrall is still there), ignore the fact that you defeated (and not without the help of the Horde) a force that is a minuscule fraction of the Horde and the Horde's war might; or the fact that had Varian tried to put restrictions on the Horde...then you would have had an actual war on your hands.

[melodramocracy]

Chuck: "The lore of 5.4 is so bad...."

Crowd: "How bad is it?"

*clap*





/cookies for anyone else old enough to remember that.

[Mormolyce]

Peace is a political decision, not a military one. Varian shouldn't even have absolute control over the military, that was bad to begin with, but he continually oversteps his bounds with no one putting him in his place.

He's a King. That's what a King is.

Fantasy is medieval... what do you want? President Varian of the United States of Azeroth?

[melodramocracy]

I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, unlike everybody else on this forum, until I see the cutscene after Garrosh dies.

Well, it's almost assured that the horde gets to maintain all its current holdings. So unless there's some lengthy peace treaty (which I'm sure would also infuriate quite a few players), writing this up that the alliance and horde just worked to bring the crazy dictator down, and will now resume their typical current struggles, is pretty shoddy.

[Immitis]

You can't defeat some rogue, fanatic, splinter cell that the rest of the faction not only disowned, but is fighting against, and say you defeated the main body. It would be like a foreign country coming to America and winning against one of those backwards hick militias, and then turning around and saying they defeated America.

But delusional...go ahead and keep ignoring the fact that all the main race leaders of the Horde still exists and are still in control of their people (we could argue about the Orcs, but Thrall is still there), ignore the fact that you defeated (and not without the help of the Horde) a force that is a minuscule fraction of the Horde and the Horde's war might; or the fact that had Varian tried to put restrictions on the Horde...then you would have had an actual war on your hands.

and you can forget the fact that the alliance was kicking the hordes arse the ENTIRE expansion and only lost one battle the entire expansion long before the horde was falling apart, or the fact that the orcs make up the bulk of the horde military and the fact that most orcs sided with garrosh, or the fact that while the horde is broken, the majority of its soldiers dead, the alliance is as united as ever, suffered almost no causalities in the siege and are at their full might.

the alliance won this war, had they wanted to they could have just decimated the rest of the hordes population, they currently have the strongest military on azeroth while the horde is broken and forced to rebuild.

the pandaren expedition belongs to the alliance

[Mormolyce]

the alliance DID win the war. just because a country isnt completely annihilated doesnt mean they didnt win.

the alliance completely and entirely won the pandaren expedition.

saying they didnt is just you being delusional and not wanting to admit the horde lost this war.

No, they aided a rebellion to oust a leader that was detrimental to both sides, then presumably sign a truce.

The Pandarian expedition? The last we heard both armies are still camped out on Krasarang's southern shores.

- - - Updated - - -

and you can forget the fact that the alliance was kicking the hordes arse the ENTIRE expansion and only lost one battle the entire expansion long before the horde was falling apart, or the fact that the orcs make up the bulk of the horde military and the fact that most orcs sided with garrosh, or the fact that while the horde is broken, the majority of its soldiers dead, the alliance is as united as ever, suffered almost no causalities in the siege and are at their full might.

Just FYI, nothing in this post is true.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, it's almost assured that the horde gets to maintain all its current holdings. So unless there's some lengthy peace treaty (which I'm sure would also infuriate quite a few players), writing this up that the alliance and horde just worked to bring the crazy dictator down, and will now resume their typical current struggles, is pretty shoddy.

How is that shoddy? Garrosh was the cause of the massive Alliance grievances that led to this current conflict. And on the Horde side he was the cause of anger and dissent internally, not to mention various actions against individual races, eg his attempt on Vol'Jin's life. He is the problem, and both sides team up to solve that problem. It's the smartest move either of them have made since the Third War ended.

[Mocha]

Just FYI, nothing in this post is true.

Thank you, I was just about to tell him the same thing...I think it's funny he called me delusional.

[Wyrt]

He's a King. That's what a King is.

Fantasy is medieval... what do you want? President Varian of the United States of Azeroth?

He shouldn't be king of the alliance, because then it's not an alliance.

[Immitis]

No, they aided a rebellion to oust a leader that was detrimental to both sides, then presumably sign a truce.

The Pandarian expedition? The last we heard both armies are still camped out on Krasarang's southern shores.

- - - Updated - - -



Just FYI, nothing in this post is true.

except it is. name one battle besides theramore the alliance lost?

jade forest? both lost but the alliance warship was untouched so in the end alliance won

karasang? alliance won.

isle of thunder, both sides won since they werent fighting each other.

5.3? horde is barely surviving, they require the aid and supplies of the alliance to even hold one outpost.

5.4? the horde cant even manage to take the harbor from garroshes forces and the alliance has to do it for them.

[DeltrusDisc]

There must always be a.. <ominous lightning strike> Horde..

I love you.

Seriously, I do. You nailed it.

[Immitis]

orcs DO make up the majority of the horde military.

the majority of orcs DID side with garrosh.

the alliance IS more united than ever.

the horde IS broken and the majority of its forces dead

the alliance won. plain and simple

[StationaryHawk]

Can we at least wait until we have all the information before creating rage threads? There's too many variables we might not know.

[Mocha]

orcs DO make up the majority of the horde military.

the majority of orcs DID side with garrosh.

the alliance IS more united than ever.

the horde IS broken and the majority of its forces dead

the alliance won. plain and simple

i MAKE up facts.

none of them are TRUE.

but i CAPITALIZE certain words.

so this makes ME right.

[Mawnix]

i MAKE up facts.

none of them are TRUE.

but i CAPITALIZE certain words.

so this makes ME right.

But the guy you're quoting is actually right.

....you just made yourself look like an ass, no offense.

[Deleted]

This eternal cold war is boring, it's time someone wins. Better would be if one faction would destroy other and survivors would return it to it's full glory in a glorious campain. But Blizzard is to much afraid to make any change to faction balance because there are always some people who take a fictional story personal and start crying... as if a good story means both faction are equally strong...

[Crazykeven]

Sylvanas will threaten to raise all the dead and wipe out The Alliance forces if Varian dares betray their alliance.

[Aquamonkey]

Am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that the entire lore of 5.4 is summed up with "Varian practically conquers the Horde (a faction has been murdering his people and invading his lands for MANY YEARS) by killing and dethroning their Warchief with the help of some rebels, and then decides to let his biggest enemy pick a new Warchief and continue invading his land and threatening to destroy the Alliance."? How is that logical in any way? What nation would give their enemies an opportunity to gain in strength and gain power again? And doesn't this basically force the Horde to "kiss up" to the alliance from now on?

In reality, if blizz were to make this lore work, they would have had to make the Horde collapse, which obviously wouldn't happen (And this is coming from a Horde player).

Totes threatening to destroy the Alliance by attacking territories at the fringe of Alliance influence. The closest Horde ever got to an Alliance capital was when they snuck into Darnassus and stole the Bell without touching anything else. Gilneas doesn't count since they weren't part of the Alliance when the Horde invaded.

[Mocha]

But the guy you're quoting is actually right.

....you just made yourself look like an ass, no offense.

1. Orcs do not make up the majority of the Horde military. Orcs however do make up the majority of the Kor'kron Elite.

2. Even if the majority of Orcs sided with Garrosh, the orcs only comprise 1 of 7 Horde races, hardly a majority.

3. The Alliance is more united then ever, I do have to give him that.

4. I would argue that the majority of the Horde is more united then ever under a new common cause to rid them of Garrosh, and are far from broken. I have absolutely no clue as to where he gets that the majority of its forces are dead. Even with heavy deaths from the siege it would hardly be a majority.

5. Is purely his opinion, and mine is that he is wrong.

[Grand Crusader Absalom]

I can see the point of it being rather ridiculous that Varian let's the Horde elect a new Warchief whereas (going from a rather lack of historic knowledge) ancient kingdoms would've probably taken over, razed(?) their crops, pillaged the villages and taken over the enemy territory for their own.
But this is an MMO, and if the Horde suddenly became under Alliance control, well, ... I don't think I need to say any more.

[Immitis]

1. Orcs do not make up the majority of the Horde military. Orcs however do make up the majority of the Kor'kron Elite.

2. Even if the majority of Orcs sided with Garrosh, the orcs only comprise 1 of 7 Horde races, hardly a majority.

3. The Alliance is more united then ever, I do have to give him that.

4. I would argue that the majority of the Horde is more united then ever under a new common cause to rid them of Garrosh, and are far from broken. I have absolutely no clue as to where he gets that the majority of its forces are dead. Even with heavy deaths from the siege it would hardly be a majority.

5. Is purely his opinion, and mine is that he is wrong.

darkspear - nearly extinct tribe of trolls when wow began

tauren - nearly extinct tribe of tauren when wow began

blood elves - something like 90% of their entire race is dead

goblins - a splinter faction of the goblins

forsaken - until cataclysm were a small force that could barely hold lordaeron.

pandaren - only a small handful of adventurers join the alliance and horde

orcs - tons of orcs

there has been 4 years since wow started in the timeline

vanilla is one year

bc is one year

wrath is one year

cata plus mists = one year

please tell me how, outside of the forsaken any of those races managed to breed themselves out of near extinction?