New Frost Mastery: Icicles!

[Tiga]

Executes sound dangerous for PvP reasons. I had a warlock in a BG hit me for over 200k. Now of course I have to be way below that health to actually take that much damage, but I suppose shields and other temporary damage reductions are easily vaporized unless the "effective health" they would normally give you would prevent from the execute ability from being used.

Also: I like it that any excess mastery from my previous target can be unloaded on the next target. In a fight with lots of smaller adds that are killed in small sets (or one by one), it benefits us that some of what would have been frostburn overkill is actually useable as icicle damage on the next target.

[Deleted]

A quick information: Icicle is on debug in SimC code. for example, waterbolt isn't increase by mastery.


It could be a lot better for the weekend. I have began watching in the Action list for optimisation (banking IL for 2T16, FFB before FB if no proc, etc). If you have any idea ...

The last run can be view here: http://lhiveras-library.com/sites/lh...frost_ptr.html
A cleave simulation will be done too.
But, we can see a confirmation of the boost in Int and Crit value. Mastery would be a lot better after the next correction.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

waterbolt isn't increase by mastery.

I thought it looked really low, but I wasn't sure and was too tired to check. Glad there's a lot of bugs.

[Methusula]

I thought it looked really low, but I wasn't sure and was too tired to check. Glad there's a lot of bugs.

Did they fix the Frostbolt debuff on the sim yet? I thought that was still an issue as well.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I'm running on 2 hours of sleep, I know way better than to check math this tired.

[Frostyspeed]

The new mastery is defo a huge buff for frost PVE. I tried it out on my ptr char (Frøsty EU-Brill) as a mastery build frost with 541 ilevel (live gear as Frostyspeed-Terokkar) and i managed to pull an insane amount of DPS.
On live: i tried arcane on dummy with a heavy mastery RoP build achieving 195k after 5m with flask and self buff (mage armor/LB). Several testing should a 5k fluctuation.
On PTR: i tried a frost mastery heavy invocation build with mastery > haste > crit. Running NT cuz of haste scaling. I managed to pull off 205k dps on the dummy after 5 minutes. Several testing again showed a 3k fluctuation on the positive side. and 1k downwards.

This is definetly a breath of fresh air for frost imo. Without heavy math calculations into haste and getting into the haste caps, it seems frost mastery is gonna be a popular build, current state of arcane is one of the best patchwerk specs, and next patch frost is out performing it significantly while allowing movement with the awesome new Ice Floes. Only thing i suggest to blizzard, is add a tracker of Icicles. Either a buff, or a 'charge' number on Ice Lance (like with Bastion of Glory and WoG for the prot paladins out there).

As ive said in the other forum post, id rather have a nerf and get deep freeze dmg back, frost is very clunky now tbh, especially with the speed of the icicles launching, feels awkward.

[Deleted]

I don´t know why so many people are so enthusiastic about Frost and the new mastery. Every raid test I did with frost and the mastery, the new tier bonuses etc were pretty underwhelming! Right now I´m not willing to progress as frost. Please stop with the dummy and SimC only test and enter Raids, Flexi Raids, LFR and do real test. You will realize that the actual frost spec on PTR is a downgrade - scaling and dps wise.

[Deleted]

@frosty: you're true it's a fresh air.

@kuni: I have review some of the code and few a few bug. They will be resolve in a few hour.
Frostbolt's debuff was only corrected recently (3 hours ago); It explain why damage and int's value was so big; haste too I think.
Waterbolt wasn't increase by mastery. We need to waiting for mister L. in a few hours
Some action list need to be tweaked for being in line with debuf's removing.

And for those who haven't see yet, they are run with T15.

@citizen: I will run some this weekend, I haven't time before. I have run an instance or too. If I run SimC (and help make it useful), it's to find what optimization to do for helping DPS. Even if I still think that scaling is still problematic. You're better than me for doing raid report. It's really helpful

- - - Updated - - -

SimC profile should work now : http://lhiveras-library.com/sites/lh...frost_ptr.html (CTRL+F5 for reloading on firefox)

• Int : 7.22
• Crit : 2.92
• Haste : 2.94
• Mastery : 3.28

So it will be Mastery stacking for now. But gemming will be int/int+mastery. More test for confirmation is needed.
@Citizen: if you run some test in-game, please share your through.

To not: rppm system will have another change to reduce haste double dip on certain trinket. Proc rate will be compensated but haste value will drop a little.

- - - Updated - - -

And here are the cleave result :
http://lhiveras-library.com/sites/lhiveras-library.com/files/frost_ptr_cleave.html
http://lhiveras-library.com/sites/lhiveras-library.com/files/frost_cleave.html

Not that Int/Mastery ratio feel stable & Crit > Haste.
It still need a better implementation for Frozen orb on multi-target

[Deleted]

Yeah I´m currently testing with Int and Int/haste, but Brill is lagging as hell for me. But I have a nice little short video for you guys:

http://de.twitch.tv/citizenpete/c/2675519 Frost vs Fire Mage and the Fire Mage doing nearly 40% of the Raid DPS for a while.

As soon as PTR is working again for me, I`m testing Int Int/Mastery - The question is shall I do it with Frost or Mage Armor? Not sure yet, I´ll tend to Frost.

[Sombrelune]

I'm sceptical, that this mastery is far ahead than hast ( which is behind crit).
In patchwerk fight why not. But in cleave/aoe fight where nether tempest shine ( why living bomb in the simc ?) and scale so well with hast, I think hast ( before the frostbolt softcap at least), will be better.
In Dark shaman encounters, with 46% hast and 46% mastery, nethertempest was 40% of my dps where icicles was 15-17% ( I don't include Water elemental )

[Deleted]

That is what I think Sombrelune, I was able to get a try with 56% Mastery

Kor'kron Dark Shaman

I don´t see why mastery should pull ahead haste, the new mastery is already broken in my opinion, because you have to switch gems and reforge for specific encounter. There are not many encounter with only 1 or 2 targets in SoO and most of the time you get showered with FoF procs in a row, so no time to build up Icicles.

[Sombrelune]

I had similar results in game.
What I don't understand , also, is how in a sim, mastery is far behind, then we are announced that the pet scaling with mastery wasn't implemented ( we are talking about maybe 40% more dps of maybe 15% of our dps ), then this bug is corrected and abracadabra mastery is far ahead.

Am I the only one to be shocked?

[Kuni Zyrekai]

It was losing icicles during GoIV. It was entirely missing out on +20% damage bonus. The ele was losing like 10k DPS.

[pyrostorm9001]

These simulations are running RoP, I dont have a problem with that but it would certainly explain a drop in haste weight when compared to a invocation user.
I would like to see a simulation run with T14N and see how it compares. I suspect come 50% haste fully raid buffed (as the T15H profile is) Haste has reached its limits on a number of spells under lust and meta.

I would not be surprised to see haste > mastery, until frostbolt GCD capped under lust.

[Akraen]

I'd like sims to stop using RoP.

Also, I really don't want us to gem mastery and use mage armor, that just doesn't feel right.

[Deleted]

Okay, after Nazgrim I can say, there is no reason to gem or reforge into mastery. Int Int/Haste seems the way to go and a point where we reforge into mastery (maybe @ GCD cap?). Our T16 4p is pretty weak in my opinion and Ice Lance need to benefit from our mastery! Dot snapshot is still strong, but I´m missing the interaction with our old mastery. Wish they just scrap Icicles and find another band-aid till 5.5/6.0.

[Deleted]

1) There seems something wrong in the SimC with the bomb and Frozen Orb. Damage % seems fine, but for some reason DPET dropped by 90%.

2) Also, why is the sim so high on the mini_XX DPET? DPE seems to be roughly ok, but DPET is 4xDPE, that doesn't make sense, there are only 3 bolts fired in the same time as the parent spell, each 40%, so DPET should be 40%/(1/3 cast time of parent spell) = 120%. It is more than 200%. It seems the sim uses the interval time of a fixed 0.25s, irrespective of their parent spell cast time. If it actually treats it as 4 bolts in 1s, this could overestimate the amount of damage generated during IV.

[Deleted]

DEPT for mini-bolt is just a non-sense. I think they are calculate for each bolt instead of being considered as one spell.

@Akraen : I think too. I preparing an Action that using T16, legendary cape and meta, with Evocation too. I want to test all 3 bombs too.
@Citizen : thanks, I will see what I can found. Cleave simulation was my idea to see if it useful and showing more useful number.
I think the sim is OK in single-target but not at all in multi.

After a night of reflection,
I think the ration Haste/Mastery is in favour of Mastery because the sim could have been run after some break point (16k haste + T15)

[nyarlo]

i wonder if they plan to add anything to make it look more.. viewable, i mean, with the shield, procs activated, a huge staff (like the siege pvp season staff) and if your character stands in a odd position, its kinda hard for me to see the icicles, anyone know if they plan something on that? or im prolly just being attentionless

[Deleted]

DEPT for mini-bolt is just a non-sense. I think they are calculate for each bolt instead of being considered as one spell.

That's what I thought as well, but it doesn't match the numbers. It seems they use (damage of parent spell*0.4)/0.25s
Now I wonder if it actually simulates it to fire every 0.25s, because that would be wrong since it gives you extra time (mini-Frostbolt is still 1.3s and not 0.75) and damage during IV (if it fires 4 per second instead of 3 for FFB and IL).