How is marksmanship?

[Tuttifrutt]

Then can you tell me, if mm is competetive with the other speccs, why are not a single top hunter using it activly?

[fiestatastic]

It's not rude, It's the truth. There is just no reason to go for MM in competitive PVE.

It's not the truth, you're ignorant and trying to pass on your ignorance as fact and it's good ppl called you out on it.

Marks was only lower until the major buff that hunters got which pushed all of the specs to the top and made all 3 specs very good. A hunter can play any of the 3 specs and do well, it's up to them and how they like to play.

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Then can you tell me, if mm is competetive with the other speccs, why are not a single top hunter using it activly?

all of the specs do well now, and people who have been playing other specs throughout this tier would have to regem and make changes to what has become routine, which would only be worth doing if mm was significantly ahead of what they're used to doing.

[Kissthebaby]

Then can you tell me, if mm is competetive with the other speccs, why are not a single top hunter using it activly?

Define top hunter. conjor plays mm the majority of the time and so does rogerbrown.

[Toffie]

Define top hunter. conjor plays mm the majority of the time and so does rogerbrown.

Rogerbrown was playing survival while progessing.
Also if you notice his DPS, he places at the bottom.

All 3 hunters from paragons are using survival, and most of the time keeps up on top 5 each fight.
Iron Juggernaut.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2506&e=2728

But keep telling people that logs mean nothing, your words mean more I guess.

femaledwarf, elitistjerks all suggest that BM is better on single target and SV on multi target & MM slightly behind both. I guess you people most know something they don't.

[Tuttifrutt]

I have not seen rogerbrown use it the majority of the time on his stream ,but whatever floats your boat. And Pottm, who is the arguably better hunter of both of them, never uses mm.

[Kissthebaby]

Rogerbrown was playing survival while progessing.
Also if you notice his DPS, he places at the bottom.

All 3 hunters from paragons are using survival, and most of the time keeps up on top 5 each fight.
Iron Juggernaut.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2506&e=2728

But keep telling people that logs mean nothing, your words mean more I guess.

The post I quoted was who was playing the spec actively not who used it during progression. Then you link a log of paragon which tells me nothing. link me so me more useless logs of top guilds. Is this really supposed to tell me marksman sucks? You are entitled to your opinion, but honestly you are giving a terrible argument linking random logs.

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I have not seen rogerbrown use it the majority of the time on his stream ,but whatever floats your boat. And Pottm, who is the arguably better hunter of both of them, never uses mm.

He switches between specs and pottom plays bm and is gemmed and reforged for bm I wouldn't play anything else either

[Rugtoad]

The amount of misinformation in this thread almost makes me want to laugh, if it weren't for the fact that people believe it...

Marksman is, barring a few certain gearing cases, behind the other two specs in single target DPS. It isn't much, but when you consider the other weaknesses of the spec - AoE being the prime suspect here - it simply isn't worth using in a progression raiding environment. If your guild has 14/14 H on farm, or if you're a fairly casual guild that isn't too worried about optimal performance from each raider, then you can do whatever you want.

To the people linking some of the top end hunters using MM in their recent logs - it's been well known for a long time that once stuff is on farm, people play around, try new things, and experiment. It's no evidence for (or against) the validity of MM in progression or any situation where optimal performance matters - it's simply irrelevant.

[Toffie]

The post I quoted was who was playing the spec actively not who used it during progression. Then you link a log of paragon which tells me nothing. link me so me more useless logs of top guilds. Is this really supposed to tell me marksman sucks? You are entitled to your opinion, but honestly you are giving a terrible argument linking random logs.

I just want you to present to me someone who plays from top guilds in the world who uses a MM hunter who can keep doing upper class DPS each fight. Paragon & Method both the best guilds in the world did not use a MM hunter during any of their progression in SoO.

Also are you telling me the best hunters in the worlds will not spend a couple hundred gold to regem & reforge to play the best spec which some of you assume is?

[Kissthebaby]

I just want you to present to me someone who plays from top guilds in the world who uses a MM hunter who can keep doing upper class DPS each fight. Paragon & Method both the best guilds in the world did not use a MM hunter during any of their progression in SoO.
?

Where did I say mm was worth using during progression are you confusing me with someone else. My argument is that is ok to play right now and can be competative with the other specs. It isnt as bad as you are making it out to be and linking top guilds as you evidence is not a good defense for how you feel.

[Deleted]

I have not seen rogerbrown use it the majority of the time on his stream ,but whatever floats your boat. And Pottm, who is the arguably better hunter of both of them, never uses mm.

Not much to argue, pottm is a far better hunter than rogerbrown.

[niil945]

Where did I say mm was worth using during progression are you confusing me with someone else. My argument is that is ok to play right now and can be competative with the other specs. It isnt as bad as you are making it out to be and linking top guilds as you evidence is not a good defense for how you feel.

I think what you said here is sorta the crux of the issue. In one short post you don't want to support using it during progression yet you continue on to say it's competitive. That's the exact opposite of what competitive means to a lot of people. Competitive is a very subjective term, but I can say the only point where MM was good for me was when I was gearing up, I had an LFR weapon upgraded that was way better than the rest of my gear. As my overall items evened out both Survival and BM blew past it in damage. I would not call that competitive. I'd say it's fine for casual use. I actually prefer the playstyle of MM much more than Survival but I can't justify using it with the difference I see.

[Deleted]

Whats new... MM is doing fine on SINGLE TARGET bosses, all 2 of them in the current tier.
SV/BM doing "better" on single target and DESTROYS MM on any fight wich includes any kinda of AOE/adds/cleave mechanics.

Just accept and move on.

[PuppetShowJustice]

This is rude. Marks is decent in pve and like conjor said which higher item level weapon it gets better and can be competitive. I have played it many times this tier and have been able to keep up with our other hunters playing bm or survival.

Bolded the important part. OP said he's coming back to the game from a long absence and wants a spec to play.

"If you have top tier base weapon damage Marks works fine" isn't really an appropriate answer to someone just trying to test the waters. He literally didn't even mention the word raid at all so I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he's probably not going to be rocking a Heroic Malkorok gun any time in the near future.

He's almost assuredly better off not going Marks for what he intends to do with himself. But by all means keep fighting amongst yourselves over who the best Hunter on the board is and how well Marks does on those farm status bosses.

[Azortharion]

There is nothing compelling about Marks as a spec. Single-target is up there, but it requires you to 1) Drop a utility glyph for Aimed Shot glyph. 2) Have a high iLvl ranged weapon - none of the other specs have those issues.

Marks AoE is terrible, the others have miles better AoE. So you got equal-to-slightly better single-target, but no AoE, and you drop a glyph.

It's a bad spec, not because its AoE is shit, but because it doesn't do anything the other specs can't do as good or better unless your gear meets special criteria - and you waste a glyph slot on something that should be baked in.

Logs are plenty useful, it's not like Marks suddenly becomes better among non top-tier parsing players. It's arguably a harder spec than Survival.

Is marks viable? Yes - kinda
Should you play it? No

[mistahwilshire]

At BiS MM isn't the top spec.

At 555-565 average ilvl with a 580 weapon it is in almost all cases the highest single target spec.

Logs don't tell the whole story, as these kinds of situations don't show up on WoL to begin with, especially this late in the tier.

Bottom line, if you just cleared normal for the first time and your first piece of heroic loot is the crossbow off protectors, you're basically guaranteed MM is your top single target DPS spec. Back in September we cleared normal week one and I was in this situation and simmed MM 18k higher than BM or SV at 555ilvl with 580 weapon. I used it for progression on several fights.

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Whats new... MM is doing fine on SINGLE TARGET bosses, all 2 of them in the current tier.
SV/BM doing "better" on single target and DESTROYS MM on any fight wich includes any kinda of AOE/adds/cleave mechanics.

Just accept and move on.

I used it on Heroic Norushen, Sha, Juggernaut, Shamans (destro locks solo the oozes) and Malkorok on the first week heroic was out, because it was my top performing spec with the gear I had. If it weren't for the abundance of heroic gear I got before killing H Thok and Siegecrafter I would've used it for those as well. Quite a bit more than two fights.

[Kissthebaby]

Bolded the important part. OP said he's coming back to the game from a long absence and wants a spec to play.

"If you have top tier base weapon damage Marks works fine" isn't really an appropriate answer to someone just trying to test the waters. He literally didn't even mention the word raid at all so I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he's probably not going to be rocking a Heroic Malkorok gun any time in the near future.

He's almost assuredly better off not going Marks for what he intends to do with himself. But by all means keep fighting amongst yourselves over who the best Hunter on the board is and how well Marks does on those farm status bosses.

Actually read what he wrote he was simply asking how the state of marksman was and thats what i described. And really play what ever spec u want and dont let anyone tell you you can't. Especially right now and if you are coming back to the game who cares. Competitive pve ended months ago, if this guy likes marksman better and is just going to do lfr and maybe flex why cant he play mm. Everyone is amazing in this thread they think this guy is like in a top 20 guild and he has to play surv or bm because they are "better". Id start getting good at marks because I have a feeling its going to be good next expac. In terms of playing marks on farm in a guild with one of the highest raid dps and item levels in us/eu, I can say that marksman is playable and is viable if you want to play it. I never played it during prgression mainly because i had 4 piece week one so surv was basically insane, but i debated using it on paragons (9 careful aim phases). Anyways I am done posting on this thread.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Oh, Marksmanship is alright, how about you?