Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Sunseeker]

This isn't a blanket nerf and its very odd to think about it in that manner. It's a different design direction.

A reduction in power is a nerf. Design direction or otherwise, it's still a nerf.

Hell we could call any adjustment to the game a "different design direction" but that's just meaningless wordplay. Like saying "advancing in new directions" is somehow different from "retreating".

[Ordinator]

From what I see in images and video footage from the WoD alpha stuff, the world is designed to have flying in mind later if they bring it back in a later patch after release. I personally don't mind no flying. A lot of my good memories were passing people in need of help and helping them out: Quest, mobs, PvP, etc.

While flying, I take the shortest root possible to my destination and bypass everyone and anything. I know I can go down on a ground mount and just not fly, but when the ability is there you tend to use it, so if flying weren't there you'd have to go cold turkey and deal with it, and might enjoy it.

I would have to disagree. I've checked most of the screen shots objectively and there isn't anything that screams flying mount. On the other hand, there are a ton of geysers in Gorgrond that would seem very odd to be able to fly around or into because it would just be a black texture to represent a very large hole.

This entire content would look so much better standing in the middle of it and not hovering above it.

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A reduction in power is a nerf. Design direction or otherwise, it's still a nerf.

Hell we could call any adjustment to the game a "different design direction" but that's just meaningless wordplay. Like saying "advancing in new directions" is somehow different from "retreating".

So you would agree that flying is "powerful" since "nefing" it would be a "reduction of power". There's a lot to be said (and has already been said) about why flying being too powerful is bad game design.

[-Superman-]

So you would agree that flying is "powerful" since "nefing" it would be a "reduction of power". There's a lot to be said (and has already been said) about why flying being too powerful is bad game design.

It's images of Talador and the tall Spires of Arak (nested tree cities for the Arakkoa) that make me wonder what they look like above the ground.

[Sunseeker]

This entire content would look so much better standing in the middle of it and not hovering above it.

That's really your opinion.

So you would agree that flying is "powerful" since "nefing" it would be a "reduction of power". There's a lot to be said (and has already been said) about why flying being too powerful is bad game design.

I've never said flying isn't powerful. But being able to enter/exit combat as you choose or more quickly get to your objective is a different kind of power than when mages where severely overpowered. Besides, it's not like I'm against alternatives, it's just that a blanket removal strikes me as trying to squash a bug with a nuke, it's lazy, it's inefficient and it hits a lot of unintended targets. There are also sorts of creative ideas that would have integrated flying more completely into the world, instead of ostracizing it as some sort of cancer.

All their solution does is get the Rose-Tinted Crusaders circling their wagons about how we're going to see a return to the "good ol' days" and piss off the New Schoolers who enjoy this aspect of the game.

[-Superman-]

All their solution does is get the Rose-Tinted Crusaders circling their wagons about how we're going to see a return to the "good ol' days" and piss off the New Schoolers who enjoy this aspect of the game.

This would make a great sig line

[Sjoa]

This would make a great sig line

I feel like his Location sig is more relevant than that specific statement!

[Sunseeker]

I feel like his Location sig is more relevant than that specific statement!

Oh yes aren't you creative. A personal attack based on my humorous location entry, oh you really got me with that one buddy.

[Callace]

For people that want to come back because WoD will be more "old-school", the difficulty isn't getting any harder, it won't be like Vanilla, they're only adding more grinds. For people that are looking for more grind, start a leveling service or something, or go play EQ 1. No one wants an OCD-themed mmo anymore. I'm sorry you have unlimited time to blow, but don't take it out one everyone else.

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even with slower world travel, traveling will still take up a very small percent of your play time. it's not worth getting so angry about. you're gonna end up spending the majority of your play time doing something or being somewhere that you wouldn't be flying anyways.

Those minutes add up to hours very quickly. They've basically admitted that the reason is they want people to play the game slower. It's a goal they've had for a long time, because it makes their jobs easier. I'm not paying for that any more than I'm paying for longer queue times.

edit: I'm all for making the game harder. They can retune the mobs etc. and that would be great. But having to kill a bunch of extra effortless trash isn't difficult, it's a waste of my time.

[Sunseeker]

edit: I'm all for making the game harder. They can retune the mobs etc. and that would be great. But having to kill a bunch of extra effortless trash isn't difficult, it's a waste of my time.

Imagine if they went the Elder Scrolls (SRPG, not MMO) route and had the world scale to YOU instead of you scaling to the world? You could level in any zone, and at level 100 you'd find creatures that challenge you while at level 91 you would also have challenges for you.

[Raiju]

Since every expac has had flying, and Cata redesigned the world for flying, I would bet a month's salary with the right data we'd prove more than 3/4 of exploration since TBC has been from the sky.

You'd be out of a months salary. Most exploration pre-cata as shown on youtube was done in the old world by foot.

[Callace]

Imagine if they went the Elder Scrolls (SRPG, not MMO) route and had the world scale to YOU instead of you scaling to the world? You could level in any zone, and at level 100 you'd find creatures that challenge you while at level 91 you would also have challenges for you.

Progressive leveling is really what they needed to turn the game around. They could do almost anything with the design at that point and people would be fine with it. I'm guessing that this idea was in their bag at some point, but it probably isn't on the table for technical reasons.

Or the fact that they're selling 90 levels.

[Sjoa]

Oh yes aren't you creative. A personal attack based on my humorous location entry, oh you really got me with that one buddy.

It was very tame and lame I agree. That was the intension though, merely a slow joke, not a personal attack

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For people that want to come back because WoD will be more "old-school", the difficulty isn't getting any harder, it won't be like Vanilla, they're only adding more grinds. For people that are looking for more grind, start a leveling service or something, or go play EQ 1. No one wants an OCD-themed mmo anymore. I'm sorry you have unlimited time to blow, but don't take it out one everyone else.

Remember. YOU are the minority here. Not us. (In the flying/noflying dicscussion in general, not this specific thread). You assume 15-25% will quit if they don't implement flying, so you are obviously not in a rational state to spread your opinions, as they're over-exaggerating x1000. I mean, you can post your opinions, sure. Just don't expect to be taken serious.

Like i said, there are far bigger concerns/threats to Blizzard than this specific change. Like the 20 man mythic that affects far more than you guys threatening to quit if you don't get to fly :P

[Callace]

Remember. YOU are the minority here. Not us. (In the flying/noflying dicscussion in general, not this specific thread). You assume 15-25% will quit if they don't implement flying, so you are obviously not in a rational state to spread your opinions, as they're over-exaggerating x1000. I mean, you can post your opinions, sure. Just don't expect to be taken serious.

edit:Actually, just put me on ignore. You aren't responding to the content of my posts anyway.

[Lumineus]

Like i said, there are far bigger concerns/threats to Blizzard than this specific change. Like the 20 man mythic that affects far more than you guys threatening to quit if you don't get to fly :P

Massively over-exaggerating the number of Heroic raiders doesn't help your case.

[-Superman-]

Remember. YOU are the minority here. Not us. (In the flying/noflying dicscussion in general, not this specific thread).

"YOU are the minority here. Not us." is personal opinion. We do not have a graph showing how many people are on each side of the argument. Then you go on to say:

you can post your opinions, sure. Just don't expect to be taken serious.

Well, as long as you are aware this goes both ways. Not sure if you are just poor at conversation, or deliberately egging people on into a fight.

[Sjoa]

Massively over-exaggerating the number of Heroic raiders doesn't help your case.

There are approximately 13750 10 H guilds out there. Multiply that by each player in each raid and you'll get what? 137 500 individual players. That is roughly 1.8% of the entire player base. Now. How many in comparison will be forced to quit if they don't get to fly, like Callace states; 15-25%. Damn, that is 1.25-1.87 Million!!!!! players quitting. How am I over exaggerating, compared to his claims? I base my opinions on actual numbers. As far as I'm concerned, saying that two million players will quit paying Blizzard if they don'† implement flying, now that is an over-exaggeration.

[Buu]

For people that want to come back because WoD will be more "old-school", the difficulty isn't getting any harder, it won't be like Vanilla, they're only adding more grinds. For people that are looking for more grind, start a leveling service or something, or go play EQ 1. No one wants an OCD-themed mmo anymore. I'm sorry you have unlimited time to blow, but don't take it out one everyone else.

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Those minutes add up to hours very quickly. They've basically admitted that the reason is they want people to play the game slower. It's a goal they've had for a long time, because it makes their jobs easier. I'm not paying for that any more than I'm paying for longer queue times.

edit: I'm all for making the game harder. They can retune the mobs etc. and that would be great. But having to kill a bunch of extra effortless trash isn't difficult, it's a waste of my time.

I have nearly unlimited time to burn, which doesn't mean that I WANT to burn in useless walking.

Which brings me to the second comment, in which I'm afraid of the trend that Blizzard is caving-in. They Actually are making their work easier, spending less time developing stuff, by doing the old EXCESSIVE time consuming of World of Walkcraft all over again, and then hiding behind some near-sighted players that defend the thing that can't be defended.

While we kill each other, they high-five each other inside Blizz, telling how smart they are by being like the Syndicate people. You know the ones that throw workers against their bosses, make the two nearly kill each other, and then lock themselves with the bosses in a room, and blackmail a pacification of the workers.

[-Superman-]

I have nearly unlimited time to burn, which doesn't mean that I WANT to burn in useless walking.

As someone with limited time each week, I would rather not waste 10 hours farming mats, when I could be flying and spend two hours gathering and 8 hours playing.

[Ordinator]

As someone with limited time each week, I would rather not waste 10 hours farming mats, when I could be flying and spend two hours gathering and 8 hours playing.

Gathering mats is playing..

[Lumineus]

How am I over exaggerating, compared to his claims? I base my opinions on actual numbers.

By your own admission. You said the collapse of guilds due to the Mythic raid size change was a "much bigger problem." The numbers do not support that claim. Factually, Mythic Raiding could be deleted altogether and not cause a significant dip in revenues. Yet the developers continue to dedicate seemingly strained art assets to it. Meanwhile the loss of flight affects everyone. Even a 3% share of "everyone" is considerably larger than a 100% share of "mythic raiders." And just based on opinion polls here, on a dedicated WoW site filled with hardcores and hardcore wannabes, it's at least an order of magnitude larger than that.