Attunements are a necessary evil for WoW.

[Fenixdown]

Attunements kept every raid in an expansion relevant in each content patch. And because of the necessity to clear harder content, this encouraged guild alliances and social interaction between guilds to get attunements and clear higher tired raids, leading to a stronger community bond.

What Burning Crusade were you playing? Attunements led to guild poaching and every guild below, like, the top 3 (at best) on your server being stuck in a revolving door that was unable to move forward.

Lemme guess. You were in one of those poach guilds to have that kind of view on what was a terrible raid design system.

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Attunements gave ingame missions and goals for people to achieve while they played. Yes it was a barrier but it was a barrier that was really easy to overcome.

Look at everyone who did the Kara key. Really wasn't that hard, and it inspired teamwork within guilds. Now its just queue up, done. Whereas someone goes "hey can you help me do my kara key?" sure, lets go. Cause you helping them get attuned meant you had someone to raid with in kara later on. Through teamwork, friendships formed.

that sort of gameplay is missing today.

Teamwork? You're joking, right. People would do it once, maybe do it a couple of other times, and then the next people after that they'd say "Nope, not doin it again, go f&*^ yourself". I literally had to guilt trip a tank in my own guild by offering him gold to tank Shadow Labs. He felt awful. I had been looking for a group for that dungeon by that point for two WEEKS.

[Joeydivision82]

I do agree that they are a necessary evil.

Sure, there was poaching, and guild hopping, but it wasn't as bad as most people make it seem.

I raided from MC to Naxx(WotLK) and did every raid as a full clear aside from Naxx(40), the guild I was with from MC to Naxx(40) maintained almost the full 40man core the entire time. We maybe had 7-8 people swap out over that time, mostly due to RL, not guild hopping.

from Kara to Sunwell, I was in 3 guilds, one started the expansion with, and transfered servers before TK/SSC was completed. The following 2 were on the new server where I was removed from one guild because they wanted someone from the server first guild to replace me (bullshit), so that was 1 instance. The second guild we maintained our core from SSC/TK to the farming Illidan for several weeks where we lost 3 raiders to the current top guild. During Sunwell, the only reason we ever lost any raiders was again, due to RL, not poaching or guild hopping, we finally got to KJ and finished off the expansion as 22/25 of the original guild.

There may have been more severe cases on other servers, but its an over exaggeration of how much it actually went on. What it really was, you would have 2-3 people leave at the same time for the same guild, so it seems more detrimental than it really was.

[ComputerNerd]

Account Wide Attunement?

Some people like attunements as some proof, some measure that they earned that right to that content it unlocks.
Being account-wide kills that completely, and makes them pointless.

There should be no gating of content behind attunments which penalises players catching up.
So the only way to do that is required attunements only on current content.
Give players something for having completed the attunement when it was relevant, and make it optional and no longer necessary when no longer current, allowing it to be experienced if players want to, but don't force players that already have it, back through it.

[ralphie]

Honestly, the best part about attunements was that feel of progressing through the game's history and the development of your character.

[Thage]

There may have been more severe cases on other servers, but its an over exaggeration of how much it actually went on. What it really was, you would have 2-3 people leave at the same time for the same guild, so it seems more detrimental than it really was.

Back in TBC, on Sisters of Elune, if you weren't in Exodus or Apples (or whatever tag they raided under back then), your guild was fodder. Leapfrogging happened all the time--it wasn't that people just loved Karazhan so much, it was that guilds literally could not make the transition from 10 to 25 because they'd get people attuned and geared, and they'd get poached by t5 guilds replacing raiders lost to burnout on Kael/Vashj, or who were in turn poached by a t6 guild replacing their own lost raiders. And it all boiled down to two things: nobody wanted to attune new recruits, and nobody wanted to gear them up. It took half the time and a fraction of the effort to poach guilds that already had them attuned and geared-up, leading to a top-down chain reaction that left Kara guilds shit out of luck nine times out of ten.

[Vintersol]

Teamwork? You're joking, right. People would do it once, maybe do it a couple of other times, and then the next people after that they'd say "Nope, not doin it again, go f&*^ yourself". I literally had to guilt trip a tank in my own guild by offering him gold to tank Shadow Labs. He felt awful. I had been looking for a group for that dungeon by that point for two WEEKS.

I don't understand why people making problems caused by players to a problem of the game.

[Deleted]

What I really liked about attunements was the immersive and storytelling part about them. Even the BT one had parts about getting to know that akama-guy.

I do agree though that attunements should not include having to kill old raid content ever again. Attunements should be about doing things in the open world, talk to different npcs (rexxar, akama) about stuff and perhaps complete some tasks in dungeons or maybe kill a world boss. It has to be stuff that can be done alone or very quick in guild groups (form a raid, kill the world boss, disband) and if they are implemented at all, they should be used to add lots of depth and immersion to the story about the new raid.
The one for tempest keep for example (doing those timed runs in several heroic dungeons) didn't feel connected to the raid dungeon at all. It was a nice challenge and all, but in terms of a proper attunement to get you attuned with the background of a raid dungeon it was just bad.

[D3athsting]

I think legendary cloak is some kind of attunement for SoO, it's very important for normal, absolutely mandatory for HC...

[Xeones]

They help weed out some of those who aren't dedicated enough to raid. Someone who has gone through a lengthy attunement for a raid is more likely to stick around and deal with difficult content.

It's not like all attunements were long.

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I don't understand why people making problems caused by players to a problem of the game.

Because, that is a prime example of a problem with the game. Maybe he wasn't on a big server. Hell, I was on a big server and never got to start netherwing rep because I could never make a group for it. Tried soloing it a few times, sure, but it wasn't happening.

People being jerks is a player problem, a person not being able to do content because Blizzard blocked it behind content without real thought to how people would get it done is a game problem.

[Fenixdown]

I don't understand why people making problems caused by players to a problem of the game.

Because the game is dictated by the players, not by the system. If the system in place leads to less enjoyment for the collective because the players refuse to cooperate with each other in the system, the system needs changing to better the gameplay experience. Example given : League of Legends. LoL has self-policing of it's players instead of leaving it to tickets that may or may not get an adequate review and months of hoping for resolution. If someone makes your gameplay experience less than adequate, then the system should be able to rectify that situation. if it cannot, then the system is flawed and needs correcting.

That's why attunements should never be put back in the game. Period. As it is, the new heroics having the Proving Grounds requirement to use LFD is acceptable because it's solo play content, and that's the furthest any attunement should ever go. Once you start requiring more than just the individual player, however, is when problems occur.

[Xeones]

I do agree that they are a necessary evil.

Sure, there was poaching, and guild hopping, but it wasn't as bad as most people make it seem.

I raided from MC to Naxx(WotLK) and did every raid as a full clear aside from Naxx(40), the guild I was with from MC to Naxx(40) maintained almost the full 40man core the entire time. We maybe had 7-8 people swap out over that time, mostly due to RL, not guild hopping.

from Kara to Sunwell, I was in 3 guilds, one started the expansion with, and transfered servers before TK/SSC was completed. The following 2 were on the new server where I was removed from one guild because they wanted someone from the server first guild to replace me (bullshit), so that was 1 instance. The second guild we maintained our core from SSC/TK to the farming Illidan for several weeks where we lost 3 raiders to the current top guild. During Sunwell, the only reason we ever lost any raiders was again, due to RL, not poaching or guild hopping, we finally got to KJ and finished off the expansion as 22/25 of the original guild.

There may have been more severe cases on other servers, but its an over exaggeration of how much it actually went on. What it really was, you would have 2-3 people leave at the same time for the same guild, so it seems more detrimental than it really was.

Your story is horribly abnormal.

As one of the recruiting officers for my guild in classic we replaced at least 5 people a month to burn out. All the people I knew in other guilds had similar problems, worse usually if they were less progressed than mine.

It was in BC with attunements on everything that guild hopping was at it's worst. I'd go so far as to say that of the less than 1% of people who cleared the highest level of raiding in BC 90% of them made most of their progression by guild hopping.

[Dormie]

Unfortunately it is not for some. The old model had contents that were only doable for a very minority few. This created a kind of exclusive club that only a selective few can enter.

I do not mind not being part of this club. What I do mind is subsidizing it for the people who can.

Except the 'club' is only exclusive to people putting in the effort. It isn't some 'minority' keeping people out. What if you could do every raid through LFR but other than that it worked BC style?

[Kickbuttmario]

I rather have attunements again in WoW to be quite honest. Its been almost 4 weeks since I got to 90 and I am already getting bored and burnt out of SoO. Its funny reading all these comments on why it was worse back then, but they clearly forget that its not that different from now. Only difference is that you don't have to gear people up or attune them, which is all good but it doesn't solve how much problems this entire problem has caused.

[mpphelps]

i've always liked the idea of attunements. There was more a sense of earning access into a raid rather than feeling like i deserve the right to enter that raid and see the content.

I think attunements in there past form would not work well in today's raid model, but they could change what is required for attunement. Perhaps there could be a quest giver outside the front of a dungeon or raid that give you a quest chain that would need to be completed before you have access to help explain why the dungeon exists and explore the lore a bit. This would have worked well for magushan vaults. Something like SoO could have had a required scenario to complete. Perhaps something like ToT would have required you to complete a series of events on the island first to gain access to unlock the fortress, such as disable all the lightning nodes across the island.

[KCguy]

The reality was TBC had no ways to catch up if you started later on in the TBC expansion. Attunements slowed that down even further. That was why they were removed. It was a hassle and pointless to keep in.

[purleedef]

The only guilds that had to resort to poaching were those too focused on progression to actually stop and assist their guild members with attunements. The real issue is that everyone wants to be given a helping hand up when they're working their way to the top, but once they get there, they act like they're too busy to help others. I always figured helping others was kind of the point of a guild in the first place

[Xeones]

The only guilds that had to resort to poaching were those too focused on progression to actually stop and assist their guild members with attunements. The real issue is that everyone wants to be given a helping hand up when they're working their way to the top, but once they get there, they act like they're too busy to help others. I always figured helping others was kind of the point of a guild in the first place

No one ever got past the first tier (of the expansion) without being focused on progression. This statement is somewhat redundant and really only fitting for ZG and Kara focused guilds.

[TwoNineMarine]

I personally don't mind attunements. I enjoy having to put in some effort. I would like to see them account wide though.

[Deleted]

The only guilds that had to resort to poaching were those too focused on progression to actually stop and assist their guild members with attunements. The real issue is that everyone wants to be given a helping hand up when they're working their way to the top, but once they get there, they act like they're too busy to help others. I always figured helping others was kind of the point of a guild in the first place

I'm sorry but back then every guild poached. Each guild lost members to guilds in the tier above because burnout was so fierce. My own guild collapsed during TBC as due to losing key people (namely the main tanks in the 40 -> 10 man shrinkage) I had to level up one up and gear it up as a new main which put us behind progression, by the time we were nearly done with SSC and TK the attunements were gone and guilds still in those instances were wiped out practically overnight by the BT guilds.

I for one don't miss attunements as a barrier to entry due to the chaos of organising a raid only to find out a bunch of people are not attuned so we are forced to help them attune instead of going where we wanted to go. I still have nightmares about the BWL runs that turned into UBRS runs just so we can raid that night.

[Deleted]

I liked attunements, it gave me an immense feeling of achievement. But not everyone feels the same way, seems to me like a fairly even split between people that love or hate it. There's no easy answer to appease both of these parties, attunements do have both pros and cons and any type of implementation, or lack of, is going to upset someone on either side of the fence.

Perhaps attuning for Mythic mode or something might be a better alternative, although it kind of loses it's value when you've already seen and set foot inside the raid in other difficulties.