[5.4 Guide] Fury PVE

[Deleted]

Evil eye. FF got nerfed hard, and flex EEOG gets your SB to every CS phase.

It does but you have to delay it.

[Darkfriend]

It does but you have to delay it.

Yup, but with the 548 EEoG the CD on SB is 22.4 or 22.6 seconds, so you can either rotate where you drop SB inside a CS, or delay the BT before CS by an extra GCD.

[Archimtiros]

Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun HC thunderforged ilvl 549 or flex Evil Eye of Galakras ilvl 548?

They are very close but I'd go with Galakras and start learning how to play with lowered cooldowns.

[Trubo]

They are very close but I'd go with Galakras and start learning how to play with lowered cooldowns.

That and it frees up so much Hit from your gear.

Unrelated but first decent Phase 3 attempt tonight. Just wish we had gotten there before 200-ish attempts filled with regression on first transition. Curious as to what other guilds are doing with their Warriors in terms of groups. Right now we have our two Fury Warriors (myself and a better geared Fury) split amongst the back two groups doing ~8.5million-10 million damage each to the adds. This used to be fine for killing them but we've since moved two of our normal damage dealers to the front two groups. Just trying to think of what else I can do for damage beyond Rude Interruption + Enraged Bladestorm as now we're getting about 4 casts.

[Archimtiros]

That and it frees up so much Hit from your gear.

Unrelated but first decent Phase 3 attempt tonight. Just wish we had gotten there before 200-ish attempts filled with regression on first transition. Curious as to what other guilds are doing with their Warriors in terms of groups. Right now we have our two Fury Warriors (myself and a better geared Fury) split amongst the back two groups doing ~8.5million-10 million damage each to the adds. This used to be fine for killing them but we've since moved two of our normal damage dealers to the front two groups. Just trying to think of what else I can do for damage beyond Rude Interruption + Enraged Bladestorm as now we're getting about 4 casts.

I would look at the group makeup. If you have 4 DD's including yourself (and one healer), there is no way you should be getting 4 casts. Your damage is fairly straight forward seeing as you are using Bladestorm (and I am hoping you are making sure you are Enraged), so I am willing to bet money the rest of your group is jerking off somewhere.
3 casts is considered slow. If you are getting 4 I guarantee someone is confused and doesn't know what they are supposed to be doing.

[Deleted]

So I was talking to a warrior streamer who said that using Whirlwind outside of CS on raging wind procs (on pure single target), while holding back 1 charge of RB always is a DPS increase. Is this true? I've been looking at a lot of warrior logs and I haven't seen anyone other than him and the other warrior in his guild do it. With this though, you would (depending on your crit chance and RNG) be going in to CS with 2 stacks already pretty much all the time, potentially wasting 1 proc from CS.

Is this the correct way to play? Because I'm not too sure. The way I do it is generally not hold my procs back and use them outside of CS, and then use BT get one stack and go in to CS phase. If the BT doesn't crit that's what berserker rage is there for and I guess the difference would be I'm using a lot more HS outside of CS as well because there's enough rage to do so.

[CollisionTD]

So I was talking to a warrior streamer who said that using Whirlwind outside of CS on raging wind procs (on pure single target), while holding back 1 charge of RB always is a DPS increase. Is this true? I've been looking at a lot of warrior logs and I haven't seen anyone other than him and the other warrior in his guild do it. With this though, you would (depending on your crit chance and RNG) be going in to CS with 2 stacks already pretty much all the time, potentially wasting 1 proc from CS.

Is this the correct way to play? Because I'm not too sure. The way I do it is generally not hold my procs back and use them outside of CS, and then use BT get one stack and go in to CS phase. If the BT doesn't crit that's what berserker rage is there for and I guess the difference would be I'm using a lot more HS outside of CS as well because there's enough rage to do so.

The "holding back 1 charge" of RB was mostly for SMF back with lower crit, to prevent wasting a lot of bloodsurge charges. If you had 1 charge of RB with bloodsurge procced, use the 3 bloodsurge charges and sit on the RB until after the next BT. It was probably also a slight dps increase for TG, but not nearly as much. With higher levels of crit it is optimal to use a BT-RB-WS-WS-BT rotation when confronted with 1 RB/Bloodsurge.

Raging Wind is an extremely small single-target dps increase because of how few open gcds we have. I've actually completely removed whirlwind from TG's default single-target action list, and judging by http://www.wowprogress.com/simdps/ it looks like it was an ok decision.


(Side-rant)
I kind of hate that fury has gone up the simdps list so much, I've tweaked fury to near-perfection while most others are only 90-95% optimal... but it's enough of a difference to make fury look overpowered. It's not unrealistic, as plenty of people do 430-450k+ on iron juggernaut every week:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Jugg...14/60/default/

Combat Rogues, which are generally the highest dps on Iron Juggernaut, actually show this in simulations as well, just not in the average. That's RPPM for you.


Compared to Fury, which has a much lower max dps... due to the ole' reliable ICD trinket.

[Trubo]

I would look at the group makeup. If you have 4 DD's including yourself (and one healer), there is no way you should be getting 4 casts. Your damage is fairly straight forward seeing as you are using Bladestorm (and I am hoping you are making sure you are Enraged), so I am willing to bet money the rest of your group is jerking off somewhere.
3 casts is considered slow. If you are getting 4 I guarantee someone is confused and doesn't know what they are supposed to be doing.

We don't have 4 DDs + Healer anymore for the back groups. Instead we swapped out a DD in each back group to help out the front groups while we took the front groups' tanks. Think the issue was solved after raid though when we were talking about it in vent and the middle group said that they were just standing in middle after killing their adds until Garrosh activated.

[Deleted]

The "holding back 1 charge" of RB was mostly for SMF back with lower crit, to prevent wasting a lot of bloodsurge charges. If you had 1 charge of RB with bloodsurge procced, use the 3 bloodsurge charges and sit on the RB until after the next BT. It was probably also a slight dps increase for TG, but not nearly as much. With higher levels of crit it is optimal to use a BT-RB-WS-WS-BT rotation when confronted with 1 RB/Bloodsurge.

Raging Wind is an extremely small single-target dps increase because of how few open gcds we have. I've actually completely removed whirlwind from TG's default single-target action list, and judging by http://www.wowprogress.com/simdps/ it looks like it was an ok decision.

Thanks for clearing that up, so I'm okay to continue the way I've been going and it's fine?

[Archimtiros]

Thanks for clearing that up, so I'm okay to continue the way I've been going and it's fine?

Yes. If you have anything like T16 levels of gear, you shouldn't be pooling RB charges anymore, but it is predicated on using Bloodthirst correctly (every 3rd GCD). Berserker Rage will cover you for the time you get unlucky.

[Deleted]

So I usually open up with bloodbath+dragon roar, recklessness+banner, then I start my rotation with BT, CS, HS (in between swing timer), RB, HS, BR, HS (again in between swing timer), RB, WS (if proc). Is my rotation bad? (or slightly worse)

[Archimtiros]

So I usually open up with bloodbath+dragon roar, recklessness+banner, then I start my rotation with BT, CS, HS (in between swing timer), RB, HS, BR, HS (again in between swing timer), RB, WS (if proc). Is my rotation bad? (or slightly worse)

Couple things:

1) Dragon Roar benefits from Banner, but not Reck, so ideally you'd go Banner - BB + DR - Reck -> Rotation.
2) Use Bladestorm instead of Dragon Roar, its better even for single target.
2) You should be using Storm Bolt instead of Bloodbath. Its better.


Optimal pull would be:

Prepot/Shout - Charge - BT - [if trinkets dont proc, delay until next BT] - CS(HS) - RB(HS) - BT(HS) - SB(HS) - RB [CS ends] - BT - RB or Bladestorm [if 1 charge of RB use BS, if 2 charges, use both, BT again, then Bladestorm]

Alternately you can use Berzerker Rage in place of the BT during CS and fit a 3rd RB, but I personally do not. Damage isn't worth having BzR available incase something doesn't Crit later.

To use Bladestorm correctly for single target there are three basic rules you want to follow:
1) Use it right after BT refreshes Enrage
2) Use it when you have <2 charges of RB
3) Cancelaura Bladestorm right before Enrage falls off (ideally ~0.5s) - dont worry if this isn't exact, point is you don't want to continue Bladestorming when you aren't Enraged.

The way this works out is that Enrage is refreshed and you start Bladestorm. Enrage should run out after the 5th tick of Bladestorm, about a second after BT comes off cooldown. You then cancel the Bladestorm and BT again to get Enrage back up. This is also why you dont want to Bladestorm when you have 2 charges of RB because that BT after the Bladestorm ends would proc another, and you would be wasting that proc (since you already have 2 charges).

[Deleted]

Make sure you fit in Heroic Leaps aswell for free damage during your CS rotations.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the reply! Now just to learn a new rotation after doing the same one throughout the entire expansion :P

[Trubo]

Thanks for the reply! Now just to learn a new rotation after doing the same one throughout the entire expansion :P

Doesn't take that long as you're already familiar with Fury. Was more annoying swapping from Arms to Fury given the spamminess of Arms.

[Archimtiros]

Make sure you fit in Heroic Leaps aswell for free damage during your CS rotations.

Yes this is good to do, it does proc the 2p bonus for 5 free rage and it is a bit extra damage, but I would focus on getting the core rotation down first. It is a very slight dps gain, and any time you use the ability for mobility, to either avoid death or get higher melee uptime on target; that will come out to a higher dps increase than simply using it inside CS.

[galvin]

Couple things:

1) Dragon Roar benefits from Banner, but not Reck, so ideally you'd go Banner - BB + DR - Reck -> Rotation.
2) Use Bladestorm instead of Dragon Roar, its better even for single target.
2) You should be using Storm Bolt instead of Bloodbath. Its better.


Optimal pull would be:

Prepot/Shout - Charge - BT - [if trinkets dont proc, delay until next BT] - CS(HS) - RB(HS) - BT(HS) - SB(HS) - RB [CS ends] - BT - RB or Bladestorm [if 1 charge of RB use BS, if 2 charges, use both, BT again, then Bladestorm]

Alternately you can use Berzerker Rage in place of the BT during CS and fit a 3rd RB, but I personally do not. Damage isn't worth having BzR available incase something doesn't Crit later.

To use Bladestorm correctly for single target there are three basic rules you want to follow:
1) Use it right after BT refreshes Enrage
2) Use it when you have <2 charges of RB
3) Cancelaura Bladestorm right before Enrage falls off (ideally ~0.5s) - dont worry if this isn't exact, point is you don't want to continue Bladestorming when you aren't Enraged.

The way this works out is that Enrage is refreshed and you start Bladestorm. Enrage should run out after the 5th tick of Bladestorm, about a second after BT comes off cooldown. You then cancel the Bladestorm and BT again to get Enrage back up. This is also why you dont want to Bladestorm when you have 2 charges of RB because that BT after the Bladestorm ends would proc another, and you would be wasting that proc (since you already have 2 charges).

Thats the first time I ever heard of bladestorm being used for single target. I even asked Darkfiend about that and he said you don't use bladestorm for singletarget.
This is the problem I find when researching warrior rotation too many different answers. That was months ago, but nothing has changed for warriors since then.

Also the opener is different than the way you say. I charge, BT, banner, recklessness, CS, stormbolt, RB until CS is done. And of course doing HS during all of that. Then dragonroar while banner is still up. I used to do it the way you said, but noticed higher burst on opener when I changed it to this way.

There's no need to do a BT during CS during the opener since most of the time you'll have enough charges of RB to use, and you can use berserker rage to get another RB.

Unfortunately not being a math expert puts me at the mercy of people like collision to come out with the correct rotation.

[meteo]

Thats the first time I ever heard of bladestorm being used for single target. I even asked Darkfiend about that and he said you don't use bladestorm for singletarget.
This is the problem I find when researching warrior rotation too many different answers. That was months ago, but nothing has changed for warriors since then.

Also the opener is different than the way you say. I charge, BT, banner, recklessness, CS, stormbolt, RB until CS is done. And of course doing HS during all of that. Then dragonroar while banner is still up. I used to do it the way you said, but noticed higher burst on opener when I changed it to this way.

There's no need to do a BT during CS during the opener since most of the time you'll have enough charges of RB to use, and you can use berserker rage to get another RB.

Unfortunately not being a math expert puts me at the mercy of people like collision to come out with the correct rotation.

Things change and you don't even need a patch for it. A discovery that you could use an ability in a new way (here: cancel bladestorm and not use the full duration = all 6 ticks), can change basics. Bladestorm is a dps increase over dragon roar if you only spin as long as the enrage buff is up and you don't have 2 RB charges waiting.

@rotation: It's usually better to do a "filler" BT cycle before you CS to guarantee trinket proccs (BT - X - X - BT - CS - RB - BT - SB - RB). Use your cooldowns with CS.
BR for a 3rd RB in the opener is only a small buff to your burst and your consistency will go down. The difference is negligible.

[Archimtiros]

Thats the first time I ever heard of bladestorm being used for single target. I even asked Darkfiend about that and he said you don't use bladestorm for singletarget.
This is the problem I find when researching warrior rotation too many different answers. That was months ago, but nothing has changed for warriors since then.

Also the opener is different than the way you say. I charge, BT, banner, recklessness, CS, stormbolt, RB until CS is done. And of course doing HS during all of that. Then dragonroar while banner is still up. I used to do it the way you said, but noticed higher burst on opener when I changed it to this way.

There's no need to do a BT during CS during the opener since most of the time you'll have enough charges of RB to use, and you can use berserker rage to get another RB.

Unfortunately not being a math expert puts me at the mercy of people like collision to come out with the correct rotation.

The Bladestorm change is relatively recent (Feb) information. Really it was discovered completely on accident because we all assumed that Dragon Roar can and should be better Single target damage. The thought that a short Bladestorm would be better overall damage through the course of a fight never entered anyones mind. You can see the post here.

There is no solution unfortunately, the only thing you can do is try to stay up to date with what Collision and the rest of us post. I promise you will find out as soon as we do! :P

As for the opener:
Using Storm Bolt on the first GCD pushes back Bloodthirst, if you are going to use BzR to skip Bloodthirst and fit a 3rd RB instead, it doesn't matter, but for the follow on CS cycles you will want to use Storm Bolt on the 3rd GCD, or you are doing yourself a disservice.

As I posted and Meteo explained above, using BzR is a rather negligible damage increase. It will increase your short term damage on the pull, but if you find yourself with a follow on BT and CS that didn't crit, it will be an overall dps loss. The choice is yours of course, I personally find that I like having BzR as back up in case I get unlucky.
For reference, I am completely best in slot and yet I still find myself with back to back non-crits, take it how you will.
I also find it easier to always keep a consistent rotation. Instead of starting with CS SB RB RB RB then changing to CS RB BT SB RB; I always use the second.

Why? Muscle memory. I don't have to think about it, its is automatic, I just do it. Free's me up to watch other things. Obviously this won't apply to everyone but my vote goes for consistency.

Also, keep in mind "I noticed higher burst on opener" is not a very valid metric. Simple things like (un)lucky crits and slight variation of trinket procs can make a lot of difference that is hard to notice. It's why people do not put much stock in target dummy tests anymore. RNG will be RNG.

[Deleted]

Yes this is good to do, it does proc the 2p bonus for 5 free rage and it is a bit extra damage, but I would focus on getting the core rotation down first. It is a very slight dps gain, and any time you use the ability for mobility, to either avoid death or get higher melee uptime on target; that will come out to a higher dps increase than simply using it inside CS.

Aye my bad, should've pointed that out.