Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Nayaga]

And while we're at it, let's just ask you. Would you suddenly enjoy Timeless isle if you could fly?

Read your response, but my question here still stands.

Adding flying to TI would not make me like it. I didn't like TI as Max-Level content. I think it was lame.

[Xires]

Yep... when I started playing WoW a few months before BC came out, I was in college and worked a few hours a week no more than that (even then I thought vanilla travel was terrible and there had to be a better way, but I wasn't bothered by things like attunements, resistance gear, etc). Those days are long gone for me. While I don't think I would have liked losing flying at the end of BC either, since I don't only like it for time saving I actually love it just as a mechanic, exploring from the air etc.... it's much more intolerable to me now that I have less free time, I am sure as heck not gonna waste any of it on this no fly garbage...

They are reworking FP's to make it less of a hassle like it was back in the day when there was no flying mounts. I mean really...most people just sit in citys anyway and like I said the FP's are supposed to be more direct then in previous expansions. Its not as bad as you think it's going to be.

[Nayaga]

They are reworking FP's to make it less of a hassle like it was back in the day when there was no flying mounts. I mean really...most people just sit in citys anyway and like I said the FP's are supposed to be more direct then in previous expansions. Its not as bad as you think it's going to be.

Removal of flight will push people out of the open world to "just sit in cities", add Garrisons to that mix and the incentive to be out in the open world is even reduced more.

[Sarkol]

Adding flying to TI would not make me like it. I didn't like TI as Max-Level content. I think it was lame.

Well then, it has nothing to do with flying or not, just the content. Pretty sure the whole of WoD is not going to mirror Timeless isle. It should be a mic of that, and dailys and anything new they can think of, just not too much of either.

The point is though, you don't need flying for good content. And one instance of Timeless isle content hardly signifies a future of just that.

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Removal of flight will push people out of the open world to "just sit in cities", add Garrisons to that mix and the incentive to be out in the open world is even reduced more.

I don't buy this at all to be honest. Just because someone has to take a flight path to their destination will stop them moving whatsoever? Makes zero sense. There will still be content to do. Why sub if you're going to log on and do nothing?

[Nayaga]

Well then, it has nothing to do with flying or not, just the content. Pretty sure the whole of WoD is not going to mirror Timeless isle. It should be a mic of that, and dailys and anything new they can think of, just not too much of either.

The point is though, you don't need flying for good content. And one instance of Timeless isle content hardly signifies a future of just that.

Blizzard said they would model WoD max level content based on the success of TI. I say it was not a "success", it was lame and boring. Removal flight and many other things I enjoy in the game and then model zones at the "success" if TI is horrible.

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I don't buy this at all to be honest. Just because someone has to take a flight path to their destination will stop them moving whatsoever? Makes zero sense. There will still be content to do. Why sub if you're going to log on and do nothing?

It might not make sense to you and I doubt if I explain why I like flying and you will buy it. Different people enjoy different aspects of the game. Remove enough fun things in the game and people start to unsubscribe.
Flying is fun for me.

[Sarkol]

Blizzard said they would model WoD max level content based on the success of TI. I say it was not a "success", it was lame and boring. Removal flight and many other things I enjoy in the game and then model zones at the "success" if TI is horrible.

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It might not make sense to you and I doubt if I explain why I like flying you will buy it. Different people enjoy different aspects of the game. Remove enough fun things in the game and people start to unsubscribe.

Well considering dailys are really the only other max level PVE content, and Bashiok said they will still have dailys, you can just carry on with them? Just skip anything resembling Timeless isle? And if some Timless isle content is mandatory for something you want, then spare a thought for those of us who despise dailys yet really need to do them for cool rewards.

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Blizzard said they would model WoD max level content based on the success of TI. I say it was not a "success", it was lame and boring. Removal flight and many other things I enjoy in the game and then model zones at the "success" if TI is horrible.

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It might not make sense to you and I doubt if I explain why I like flying and you will buy it. Different people enjoy different aspects of the game. Remove enough fun things in the game and people start to unsubscribe.
Flying is fun for me.

Ok flying is fun for you, but that really has no relation to what content you enjoy.Seems it's simply a small matter of convenience.

[Sweetpeaz]

Well considering dailys are really the only other max level PVE content, and Bashiok said they will still have dailys, you can just carry on with them? Just skip anything resembling Timeless isle? And if some Timless isle content is mandatory for something you want, then spare a thought for those of us who despise dailys yet really need to do them for cool rewards.

I don't know if you don't understand this. It's not a choice if flight is being taken away. It's not like if you don't do TI 'like' content you can fly while doing your dailies.

[Nayaga]

Ok flying is fun for you, but that really has no relation to what content you enjoy.Seems it's simply a small matter of convenience.

Actually flying is very important to me to be able to enjoy content. My game time is limited, very limited. I only have one level 90 toon, I don't have time for alts. I don't want to use my limited game time slogging through level 91 mobs at level 100. It's a complete waste of time, there is no risk, no challenge and little reward. If I can fly at max level, I can get on with achievements, pet battles, archaeology, ore, herbs, skinning, exploring, pet collecting, dailies. fishing and so on, without wasting me time in irrelevant mobs.

[Sarkol]

Actually flying is very important to me to be able to enjoy content. My game time is limited, very limited. I only have one level 90 toon, I don't have time for alts. I don't want to use my limited game time slogging through level 91 mobs at level 100. It's a complete waste of time, there is no risk, no challenge and little reward. If I can fly at max level, I can get on with achievements, pet battles, archaeology, ore, herbs, skinning, exploring, pet collecting, dailies. fishing and so on, without wasting me time in irrelevant mobs.

What do level 91 mobs have to do with max level WoD content? You're really telling me that just because you may have to land on a flight path, and run toward an area.. or more than likely fly right to where you need to go.. and run through a few mobs.. you won't have time? I think you need not worry. It's not like once flight is removed they're going to suddenly make all objectives and desired areas horrible to get to.

For Blizzard it's just a question of designing content knowing players have to traverse through it. It's never been hard moving around on the floor, and it won't be now. You may be slightly inconvenienced by some mobs here and there.. but that is intended design from Blizzard, so there's really not much to argue with. All in all you'll still have time to play i'm sure..

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I don't know if you don't understand this. It's not a choice if flight is being taken away. It's not like if you don't do TI 'like' content you can fly while doing your dailies.

Note sure i understand your post.

[Nayaga]

What do level 91 mobs have to do with max level WoD content? You're really telling me that just because you may have to land on a flight path, and run toward an area.. or more than likely fly right to where you need to go.. and run through a few mobs.. you won't have time? I think you need not worry. It's not like once flight is removed they're going to suddenly make all objectives and desired areas horrible to get to.

For Blizzard it's just a question of designing content knowing players have to traverse through it. It's never been hard moving around on the floor, and it won't be now. You may be slightly inconvenienced by some mobs here and there.. but that is intended design from Blizzard, so there's really not much to argue with. All in all you'll still have time to play i'm sure..

You just don't get it. I knew it was a waste of time to explain what I enjoy in the game and why.

[Sarkol]

You just don't get it. I knew it was a waste of time to explain what I enjoy in the game and why.

I do. It's a question of convenience and time saving, which is why i won't try to debate with you because it's pointless and get's us now where. Ultimately, Blizzard wants people to interact with the world they create. This will cause 'inconvenience' due to this, but it is intended. I get that people won't like that, but i also get that it won't change their direction, so there we are.

[urasim]

Note sure i understand your post.

He's saying there is no choice in the matter. You have to be grounded, you have to do their timeless isle BS, and you have to play the game the way Blizzard wants you to play it.

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I do. It's a question of convenience and time saving, which is why i won't try to debate with you because it's pointless and get's us now where. Ultimately, Blizzard wants people to interact with the world they create. This will cause 'inconvenience' due to this, but it is intended. I get that people won't like that, but i also get that it won't change their direction, so there we are.

They might say that they want people to interact, but there is zero incentive to do that. Removing flight won't fix anything in this game.

[Nayaga]

I do. It's a question of convenience and time saving, which is why i won't try to debate with you because it's pointless and get's us now where. Ultimately, Blizzard wants people to interact with the world they create. This will cause 'inconvenience' due to this, but it is intended. I get that people won't like that, but i also get that it won't change their direction, so there we are.

No flying and Garrisons will push people out of the
open world and there will be less interaction with the world.

[urasim]

We still don't know about what kind of world we are entering into.

The whole "Timeless Isle" thing might just be to add those rare encounters here and there as a bonus, to have something for collectors.

Maybe you should watch some videos on the matter? We know what we are getting into. The game isn't radically changing from what the end of MoP is.

[Sarkol]

He's saying there is no choice in the matter. You have to be grounded, you have to do their timeless isle BS, and you have to play the game the way Blizzard wants you to play it.

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They might say that they want people to interact, but there is zero incentive to do that. Removing flight won't fix anything in this game.

Well i think it's you that doesn't get it. First, it's Blizzards game, so yes if they feel this is the direction they want to go then that's how it is. Secondly, 'interacting with the world' has nothing to do with incentive to do it.. It's having to kill a few enemies, instead of flying over it. It's having to actually DO SOMETHING to get to an objective, to complete a task, instead of just swooping in on every objective, invalidating everything but that.

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No flying and Garrisons will push people out of the
open world and there will be less interaction with the world.

From what we know, there's absolutely nothing to suggest this at all, sorry.

[Nayaga]

Well i think it's you that doesn't get it. First, it's Blizzards game, so yes if they feel this is the direction they want to go then that's how it is. Secondly, 'interacting with the world' has nothing to do with incentive to do it.. It's having to kill a few enemies, instead of flying over it. It's having to actually DO SOMETHING to get to an objective, to complete a task, instead of just swooping in on every objective, invalidating everything but that.

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From what we know, there's absolutely nothing to suggest this at all, sorry.

You can't force people to interact, if they don't like it, they will sit in garrisons and cities. No flying is nothing but a lame method to slow content consumption.

[urasim]

First, it's Blizzards game, so yes if they feel this is the direction they want to go then that's how it is.

You missed my point entirely. I am guessing you did it on purpose and not because you lack reading comprehension. Being forced to play any game the way someone wants is bad design. Taking away choice is bad design. I don't mind the illusion of choice, but they don't even offer that...

Secondly, 'interacting with the world' has nothing to do with incentive to do it..

There is no incentive to group... Do you not understand what that means? It means it's worse to group with people, most of the time, than it is to go solo. Blizzard is constantly adding new features that make grouping worse. This shows that they don't actually want you to group. If they wanted me to group with you, they need to add more rewards for it.

It's having to kill a few enemies, instead of flying over it.

You fly over the mobs you don't need. Just like you run past the mobs you don't need on the ground. You don't kill every non-quest mob between quest giver and the quest area. Do you? No. You skip them. There is no reason to fight them. Your argument is silly.

It's having to actually DO SOMETHING to get to an objective, to complete a task, instead of just swooping in on every objective, invalidating everything but that.

Sounds like you do want to kill all the irrelevant, non-quest mobs that offer you only a few silver... If that's the case, you aren't worth discussing with.

[Sarkol]

You can't force people to interact, if they don't like it, they will sit in garrisons and cities. No flying is nothing but a lame method to slow content consumption.

Maybe it slows it. I disagree with Blizzard on a lot of things, but i really agree that flying invalidates the shit out of the content they design. A good design goal would be to have areas of each type, instead of mixing it up. Specifically designed ground content and flying content. It's not like it's new either. Blizzard have released a lot of patch content ground only, so it's not like players aren't slightly used to it.

Not sure what to really say apart from other subjective positives i feel come from flying. You call it wasting time, i agree with the fact that flying over everything Blizzard does cheapens the world a bit.

[Nayaga]

Maybe it slows it. I disagree with Blizzard on a lot of things, but i really agree that flying invalidates the shit out of the content they design. A good design goal would be to have areas of each type, instead of mixing it up. Specifically designed ground content and flying content. It's not like it's new either. Blizzard have released a lot of patch content ground only, so it's not like players aren't slightly used to it.

Not sure what to really say apart from other subjective positives i feel come from flying. You call it wasting time, i agree with the fact that flying over everything Blizzard does cheapens the world a bit.

I agree it invalids blizzards design while leveling and completing all quests. I want flying after that.

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Well, there's not really many mobs which can actually slow you down nowadays. Most of the zones are quite empty or mobs are neutral, unless for some reason you want to zerg through hostile village. And then again, getting dazed is like 1 of 100 hits, so it's not big deal anyways.

Mobs are neutral? What? Also 310 flying speed is faster than 100 ground speed.

[Sarkol]

You missed my point entirely. I am guessing you did it on purpose and not because you lack reading comprehension. Being forced to play any game the way someone wants is bad design. Taking away choice is bad design. I don't mind the illusion of choice, but they don't even offer that...



There is no incentive to group... Do you not understand what that means? It means it's worse to group with people, most of the time, than it is to go solo. Blizzard is constantly adding new features that make grouping worse. This shows that they don't actually want you to group. If they wanted me to group with you, they need to add more rewards for it.



You fly over the mobs you don't need. Just like you run past the mobs you don't need on the ground. You don't kill every non-quest mob between quest giver and the quest area. Do you? No. You skip them. There is no reason to fight them. Your argument is silly.



Sounds like you do want to kill all the irrelevant, non-quest mobs that offer you only a few silver... If that's the case, you aren't worth discussing with.

I spend pages debating with people i disagree with. You derive your own meaning from one of my sentences, decide you don't like the opinion you've made for me, then decide i'm not worth talking to.

The funny thing about this is you expect people to accept your personal opinion in this argument, yet when you hear mine(or the one you created for me), you're not up for the debate any more. Awesome.