If Symbiosis is gone

[Gemini Soul]

The perks are passive to spells you have so doesn't bloat your bars

I talked about spell books not bars 8P

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You realise you spend a global for a total of 3000 damage (total images duration, damage not dps) right? An instant spell + NG uptime can offer you x100 the damage.

I will miss symb for the AMS and CoS mechanics cheezing. Immuning fear on Sha of Fear or the debuff on Jin'rokh HC where invaluable.

I will miss my Ghetto Thorns and Boner Shield

[Siphix]

Thank god /10 char

[Polarthief]

Then what are we getting in its place? nothing?

I remember it being a lvl 78 or something spell?

(Looking to main a druid in WOD thats all)

A lot of classes aren't being compensated for scrapped abilities, so don't expect anything outside of talents/perks.

You could be like Mage and lose an amazing talent (Temporal Shield) as well as two baseline spells becoming talents (Mirror Image and Alter Time), on top of having all sense of PvP and survivability abolished (Deep Freeze nerfed to shit, Combustion nerfed beyond its already shit state, all self-healing pretty much gone)

[teddabear]

With a resource cost and requires a talent. 20 energy + gcd + talent for 65% ae damage reduction or 30% if it is single target versus no resource cost + no talent cost + 2 min 2 charges for 70% to everything. Honestly, as a pve rogue, I think I'd trade you. If you're just needing it occasionally SI is clearly better. You can just spam feint every 7 seconds to keep it up which might sound really nice, but it is incredibly unfun.

Sure. I will trade you SI + Barkskin + Ursoc + Symbiosis (Oops no longer have those) for Feint + Elusiveness + Cloak of Shadows + Vanish + Smokebomb + Cheat Death + Evasion

[Kraineth]

Sure. I will trade you SI + Barkskin + Ursoc + Symbiosis (Oops no longer have those) for Feint + Elusiveness + Cloak of Shadows + Vanish + Smokebomb + Cheat Death + Evasion

QFT

also SI is only 50% now

[FuxieDK]

You realise you spend a global for a total of 3000 damage (total images duration, damage not dps) right? An instant spell + NG uptime can offer you x100 the damage.

I will miss symb for the AMS and CoS mechanics cheezing. Immuning fear on Sha of Fear or the debuff on Jin'rokh HC were invaluable.

Mirrors could be slightly usefull (at best) on fights like Horridon, where it could easily take the tank 10-15 seconds to position the boss.
With Mirror Image on pull, you could go full out nuke while blowing CDs, for a nice damage boost, without thinking of aggro, and your CDs would be up when you would need them again..

But apart from that..... Not much usage for MI...

Orc, if you had a hunter in the raid, you could just (double) MD the tank instead, and then use MD to help tanks round up adds..

[Deleted]

Screw symbiosis. It had some useful raid utility, but they gutted and neutered everyone's raid utility anyway.

To compensate they buffed survival insticts to an INSANE 70% damage reduction on a TWO MINUTE cooldown that has TWO charges. Like wtf? That is ridiculously powerful right there. Much better than symbiosis could ever hope to be.

I will miss life gripping people and tranqing while running though, but those were only as a healer.

SI is back to 50%, still 2 charges.

Personally I would take my current defensive CDs (SI, Barkskin & Dispersion/DS) over the new ones (Just 2 charges of SI).

[sayne9]

SI is back to 50%, still 2 charges.

Personally I would take my current defensive CDs (SI, Barkskin & Dispersion/DS) over the new ones (Just 2 charges of SI).

Did they remove glyph of ninth life for ferals? 10% permanent damage reduction is pretty decent. Goes against the whole no required glyphs mantra as I don't know anyone in pve or pvp would would run without that.

Symbiosis gave you pretty decent utility that you could customize to the fight you were doing. Not sure if they properly compensated that removal even on a damage reduction front let alone on the utility side of things. As an individual spell its button bloat was ridiculous and I understand cutting it but its utility was not properly compensated by an extra charge of survival instincts(while cutting barkskin and removing last stand) or a 30 second barkskin. Only spec maybe coming out ahead would be guardian.

[Wayne25uk]

Will this affect the Lilypad trinket from timeless isle as it is just a Symbiosis part 2?

[Alopex Major]

I'm still upset about losing this :/ I'm really not convinced all of this pruning they are doing is for the best.

[Deleted]

Did they remove glyph of ninth life for ferals? 10% permanent damage reduction is pretty decent. Goes against the whole no required glyphs mantra as I don't know anyone in pve or pvp would would run without that.

Still in. I agree, seems pretty mandatory. Some may prefer the 20% extra healing but its seems to me a permanent 10% DR is better.

Will this affect the Lilypad trinket from timeless isle as it is just a Symbiosis part 2?

Still work afaik

[Asiel]

In general, from what I could tell, there was always that ONE class that you really wanted to cast it on every raid for the added utility. Maybe two, and that doesn't count the raid's needs, like a Guardian druid (as the only Brez) casting it on a Holy pally to help with in-combat rez.

Seemed like a huge restriction to me. Why would you want to keep a spell that can do so much but offers so little?

[teddabear]

QFT

also SI is only 50% now

Morons.

We already know from experience that 50% is not enough to survive without either Barkskin or Ursoc.

Hopefully they remember to buff it back when healing ramps up again in later tiers and it is CD or die mechanics again.

[Juvencus]

Will this affect the Lilypad trinket from timeless isle as it is just a Symbiosis part 2?

Still works. One more item in the "druids got shafted" list.

[Adramalech]

Still works. One more item in the "druids got shafted" list.

It doesn't.

[Juvencus]

It doesn't.

Oh, must be a recent change then, thanks.

Can you check if it's removed from the Timeless Isle achiev as well?

Wowhead still has it but it's greyed out and when you hover over it it has a different name -Wilted Lilypad.

[sayne9]

Still in. I agree, seems pretty mandatory. Some may prefer the 20% extra healing but its seems to me a permanent 10% DR is better.

Is it one or the other? I thought we could have both which would make both pretty mandatory as both are pretty major survival boosts.

[Adramalech]

Oh, must be a recent change then, thanks.

Can you check if it's removed from the Timeless Isle achiev as well?

Wowhead still has it but it's greyed out and when you hover over it it has a different name -Wilted Lilypad.

Hm, it's possible that we'll still have to obtain this grey version for the achievement. I'll check it if I can.

Edit: took a while to find the achievement, didn't know there was a Collections category now... it still requires the Overgrown Lilypad, but I'm sure it'll either be removed or replaced with this unusable version.

[Lahis]

Screw symbiosis. It had some useful raid utility, but they gutted and neutered everyone's raid utility anyway.

To compensate they buffed survival insticts to an INSANE 70% damage reduction on a TWO MINUTE cooldown that has TWO charges. Like wtf? That is ridiculously powerful right there. Much better than symbiosis could ever hope to be.

I will miss life gripping people and tranqing while running though, but those were only as a healer.

Too bad I can't use Survival Instincs as a Resto/Balance....

Oh, also, it's 50%, 70% reduction.

[Rivin]

Is it one or the other? I thought we could have both which would make both pretty mandatory as both are pretty major survival boosts.

Yes, you can only have one of them active at a time.