Men should have the right to ‘abort’ responsibility, Swedish political group says

[Noradin]

Oh, sorry, I read "shouldn't" as "should" for some reason.

No problem.

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Woman would be able to do that too, if they had impregnated their partner and didnt want the child but the partner they impregnated did.

Of course. No one disputes that. (Well, Tiili, maybe.)

[negawonka]

But they don't.

Women have the right to control over their own body. Once the fetus is 22 weeks (I think) the woman loses that right. She cannot get an abortion, physical or financial. Once the child is born the woman has no rights to a financial abortion.

That fetus was grown from a seed made from one of the male's cells and one of the female's cells. As a result perhaps the man should be able to request half the fetus back at his choosing prior to that 22 weeks. I would be ok with that compromise as well.

See I am willing to look at dozens of potential compromises, but often opponents of this state that the exact situation we have now is the only one that will work.

[padie]

You're not receiving unequal treatment under the law. Men have the same right to abort as a woman does, you just can't get pregnant. Women can't skip out on child support, just like men can't.

So men can't be mothers? I did not know that.

Point is (future) mothers and fathers aren't equal.(I'm not saying they should be, but pretending they are is wrong)

[Deleted]

Nope not more rights. Actually I was unaware that women couldn't skip out on paying child support in your country by putting the child up for adoption.

You can't put a child up for adoption alone, it requires the consent from both parents.

They can however avoid paying it by getting an abortion which is essentially free to them.

They're not avoiding it, because you're not paying child support for a fetus.

I think the best one is to restructure our society and just make it so there is no child support period and if those in custody of the child can't be supported they are taken away by the state. I also think there are probably other ways to fix the problem, but saying that there is no problem when there clearly is one is not helpful to any country.

No, that's a shit way of handling it. Look at the Khmer rouge.

[Halyon]

I've never heard of any woman who would want to give birth to a child for monetary gain. Is this really a thing in our society?

Well, there are women who pop out some babies and live off child support alone because it's somehow easier than keeping a job.

Then you could argue about women having babies specifically for other people. Worse example though.

[Deleted]

You can't put a child up for adoption alone, it requires the consent from both parents.


They're not avoiding it, because you're not paying child support for a fetus.


No, that's a shit way of handling it. Look at the Khmer rouge.

So every woman in Sweden knows exactly who impregnated her? That is an incredible feet imo..

And since when is the Khmer Rouge the same as modern western society!?

[negawonka]

They're not avoiding it, because you're not paying child support for a fetus.

I am fine with compromises that are contingent on the child being aborted to avoid paying child support, as I said go ahead and let men take back half of the fetus prior to 22 weeks.

[Justpassing]

I don't understand why "abortion" is such a hot topic on MMO-C, I mean, don't worry manchildren, you can't have children in WoW! (Unless you're into some weird gnome RP...)

EDIT: Before someone flames me; come on yeah I understand this is the "Off-topic" forum but how relevant are abortion, child support etc. to an audience of a video game forum? Are all these nerds wildly having unprotected sex in every position day after day worldwide?

And inb4 "not everyone plays WoW we're here for X and Y" Really? You're on MMO-C, of all the internet, for discussion? Call me close-minded but if you don't want WoW news and spoilers you got no business here, scoot off to Stormfront instead of trying to make MMO-C a new hub tyvm.

[Deleted]

I am fine with compromises that are contingent on the child being aborted to avoid paying child support, as I said go ahead and let men take back half of the fetus prior to 22 weeks.

Sure, then we could at least throw them in prison for causing grievious bodily injury or at most, aggravated assault.

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And since when is the Khmer Rouge the same as modern western society!?

The Khmer rouge took children from the parents, the state taking kids from their parents never ends well.

[Deleted]

Sure, then we could throw them in prison for causing grievious bodily injury.

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The Khmer rouge took children from the parents, the state taking kids from their parents never ends well.

So you should not take kids that are abused from their parents?

And, again, if the woman in Sweden doesn't know who the father is, what then?

[Mehrunes]

This is just getting ridiculous. You want more rights than what women have, women can't skip out on paying child support, yet you want men to be able to. That's not equality.

The thought behind it is not about child support per se, but about the ability to choose whether or not you're a parent. Women have that choice due to abortion, men that don't want to have that choice forced on them by the mother. Besides, this proposition isn't mutually exclusive from disallowing women to skip on paying child support, it could be done that way too. Though in this case the child would need to be born. But it could be applicable in situations where the mother doesn't want the child, the father does and the woman is against abortion for moral or religious reasons.

[negawonka]

Sure, then we could throw them in prison for causing grievious bodily injury.

I was implying a medical procedure.

As I see it, man wants to avoid paying child support he should be able to request an abortion to return half of his fetus and if the woman does not want to have the abortion she does so with the knowledge she is continuing with the pregnancy without his financial support.

That sounds like an equitable exchange to me. It is half his fetus by any logic (or at least as much his as it is hers) but she does have control over her body just like he should have control over his wallet.

[Noradin]

The Khmer rouge took children from the parents, the state taking kids from their parents never ends well.

It generally doesn't when the purpose is to brainwash them but there are quite a few cases where it improves life for the child substancially.

[Deleted]

So you should not take kids that are abused from their parents?

You're aware what happens in such cases, right? They get relocated to a foster family, the state doesn't raise them.

[Noradin]

The thought behind it is not about child support per se, but about the ability to choose whether or not you're a parent. Women have that choice due to abortion, men that don't want to have that choice forced on them by the mother. Besides, this proposition isn't mutually exclusive from disallowing women to skip on paying child support, it could be done that way too. Though in this case the child would need to be born. But it could be applicable in situations where the mother doesn't want the child, the father does and the woman is against abortion for moral or religious reasons.

I would support something like that.

[Deleted]

I was implying a medical procedure.

Medical procedures without the consent of the one affected by it is bodily injury, aggravated assault or if there's a risk of death - attempted murder.

[negawonka]

You're aware what happens in such cases, right? They get relocated to a foster family, the state doesn't raise them.

The state takes them though and we all consider that ok. I think we should just move the slider down to what is considered abuse.

[Noradin]

You're aware what happens in such cases, right? They get relocated to a foster family, the state doesn't raise them.

How would that be different from the cases to which your response was directed?

[Deleted]

How would that be different from the cases to which your response was directed?

The state isn't responsible for raising kids, the cases where the state has stepped in to "raise kids", it's been done solely for being able to brainwash them. I'm not keen on theoretical situations that hasn't ever happened, I'm more concerned about what actually happens when the state is responsible for "raising kids", which have in all cases so far resulted in brainwashing.

[Anastacy]

So every woman in Sweden knows exactly who impregnated her? That is an incredible feet imo.

Incredible, even more, that a man doesn't pay child support to a woman who doesn't know that that particular man got her pregnant..