Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Eliseus]

Everyone's so obsessed over Vanilla, when chocolate is such a better flavor.

I like strawberry, or vanilla with a mix of the rest.

[anon5123]

It isn't "as simple as that." 5.4 is widely considered to be one of the best patches to ever be released

You mean the patch that had us sitting in the same raid for a year and a half?

Everyone's so obsessed over Vanilla, when chocolate is such a better flavor.

I like TBC mechanics and class balance a lot better than vanilla's, but I like vanilla content better.

Well said. The reason a lot of people (including myself and my friends) have stopped subbing is largely due to two things: The death of the game's social aspect (largely due to LFD/LFR/Xrealm) and the rate of content consumption. Content is consumed much too quickly since every tier includes catchup that makes the previous tier almost entirely irrelevant for the vast majority of the playerbase. Add on top of that the fact that leveling is far too fast/easy and PvP gear no longer requires rating (no more incentive to hit higher ratings) and you have a playerbase that gets burned out in a matter of weeks now. Server community is dead so nobody gives a crap about each other and you can hit level cap and see all of the raid content in a matter of days so there's little incentive to keep playing after that.

Mmhm, that's really the only problem I have with WoW nowadays: too much instant gratification.

There's no challenge; no struggle to overcome. Everything outside of raiding is braindead easy and takes no time at all. Even without Heirlooms you can go 1-100 in a couple weeks, and then within 7 days of hitting 100, get 680 ilvl and start doing normal mode HFC.

I actually really enjoy current combat mechanics and such, but the game is just way too easy and content is consumed way too quickly as a result.

[Eliseus]

You mean the patch that had us sitting in the same raid for a year and a half?

I'm still confused how how he concluded it to be one of the best patches to ever be released. Unless he has a broad range of best patches.

[Uurdz]

I'm still confused how how he concluded it to be one of the best patches to ever be released. Unless he has a broad range of best patches.

Yeah I'm confused too. Subs were at 7.5mill and... Uh... Wait what?
Personally I thought the the LK patch was best, and wrath as best expansion. But the aq patch was amazing to, despite the bugs, with an amazing lead up to gates being opened. I was only level 50 odd but really felt part of something awesome.

[anon5123]

But the aq patch was amazing to, despite the bugs, with an amazing lead up to gates being opened. I was only level 50 odd but really felt part of something awesome.

Mmhm, the AQ patch with the war preparations and such pretty sweet. A 1-time server event that had the whole server working together towards a common goal? Bloody epic. Though when the actual gate opening happened, all of the raiding guilds just made a mad dash for the raid portal, and the rest of the scrubs outside were left to deal with these raid boss enemies, with shitloads of lag and d/c because of having 2000 people in the same area, not to mention running at 2-3 fps due to having 2000 people all in the same area. :P

Still pretty fucking epic in its own right.

[Saffa]

I'll never understand why there are people so against what the Nost. team was doing...

Some of us pay attention to the law. Some of you don't, probably because you do not yet have anything to protect. When you are earning a wage, would you be so happy if your bank account was hacked and people helped themselves to the money you earned? If you would be upset, why are you supporting theives?

[Baronthefirst]

Positive ROI does not ensure that a business will pursue something, Blizzard has a proven track recordthat t get products have to reach a certain standard. One could argue that vanilla WoW wouldn't meet those standards of today.

There was a time when Blizzard had their high standards. That is when WoW was great. Activision standards however have only helped to ruin what once was a great game. The WoW of today can't even touch the high standards set for Vanilla WoW. I wish I could get you all to understand just how bad Legion is right now. To think one Legacy realm could quite possibly be the highest populated realm is a high possibility and I bet it scares the hell out of Activision-Blizzard. Just the idea of them even turning one on tells us they accept that many people hate what the game is today and that the older stuff minus all the quality of live changes was better.

So I will now argue that Vanilla WoW set the standard. Everything since Cataclysm doesn't meet them.

[Eliseus]

Some of us pay attention to the law. Some of you don't, probably because you do not yet have anything to protect. When you are earning a wage, would you be so happy if your bank account was hacked and people helped themselves to the money you earned? If you would be upset, why are you supporting theives?

I get what you are saying, but this has to be the worst analogy of them yet lol. What Nost did was illegal to US laws, but didn't steal money from Blizzard. Unless you are on a side that is very vocal about all of Nost players not paying Blizzard, and now claiming they would of payed Blizzard for current WoW.

[Baelic]

I wouldn't mind playing a legit legacy version of WoW. Never really had the endgame experience and would like to see it for myself at least.

[Eliseus]

There was a time when Blizzard had their high standards. That is when WoW was great. Activision standards however have only helped to ruin what once was a great game. The WoW of today can't even touch the high standards set for Vanilla WoW. I wish I could get you all to understand just how bad Legion is right now. To think one Legacy realm could quite possibly be the highest populated realm is a high possibility and I bet it scares the hell out of Activision-Blizzard. Just the idea of them even turning one on tells us they accept that many people hate what the game is today and that the older stuff minus all the quality of live changes was better.

So I will now argue that Vanilla WoW set the standard. Everything since Cataclysm doesn't meet them.

This is exactly my problem with what he stated. I understand what he is saying because companies like to have a standard products must achieve, but who sets it? If more people view this version of the product better, who is saying it isn't the standard to be upheld to?

[Uurdz]

One thing I will say about the nost team is that they sounds pretty good so far. While they started 'in the wrong' for stealing Blizzards IP, they don't exactly have the usual immoral intent that goes with that type of activity. They didn't seek to make a profit instead just to provide something that wasn't available anymore.

Theur announcement is encouraging, and I hope they are able to distance themselves professionally from the streamers and Mark Kern who aren't always on the right wave length with their views.

Hoping for some form of agreement where they will help Blizzard with development of the game while a Blizzard team work on battle.net integration.

I feel like at this stage, the talks will be about trying to make something work. It might be all PR but they've opened themselves up (blizzard) to the nost. Team as they have rightly made them legitimate ambassadors of the legacy movement. Should it just be a fake PR spin and blizzard has no intention of providing legacy then nost. Will just come out and say "hey guys they don't care" which would be a PR disaster given the fact Blizzard just made them legitimate

The announcement from brack was meh, but the subsequent announcement that nost. Is meeting with Blizzard makes it very hard to conclude that legacy servers won't come or at least be considered to the full extent possible.It's all about the cost v benefit now, any game directional or similar political disagreements are now moot.

The end result will be either a firm no, never, or a yes.
Pristine servers would be a firm no, never btw.

[Relapses]

There was a time when Blizzard had their high standards. That is when WoW was great. Activision standards however have only helped to ruin what once was a great game. The WoW of today can't even touch the high standards set for Vanilla WoW. I wish I could get you all to understand just how bad Legion is right now. To think one Legacy realm could quite possibly be the highest populated realm is a high possibility and I bet it scares the hell out of Activision-Blizzard. Just the idea of them even turning one on tells us they accept that many people hate what the game is today and that the older stuff minus all the quality of live changes was better.

So I will now argue that Vanilla WoW set the standard. Everything since Cataclysm doesn't meet them.

You're using presumptive bias to support an idea that has no basis in reality. The reality is that the gaming environment in 2016 is much different than it was in 2004. The reality is that much of what people find "enjoyable" about Vanilla WoW are vestiges of EverQuest, vestiges that WoW has spent 5 expansions trying to eliminate. The reality is that the gaming climate in 2016 supports instant gratification, not boring grindfests. MMOs are no longer the shining beacon of entertainment they were when WoW was in its heyday.

I don't think they're scared of Legacy being more popular. I think they're scared of the exact opposite. While Legacy realms would undoubtedly increase short term interest in WoW, what purpose do they serve if 95% of the people who play it simply log in, realize they prefer newer versions of WoW then never use it again? And what purpose does Blizzard have to spend the resources developing these realms right now when they could simply do what they're already trying to do with Legion and fix the problems with the current game? The small percentage of players who want Legacy realms will be happy while everybody else will be wondering why the fuck they exist in the first place.

[Eliseus]

One thing I will say about the nost team is that they sounds pretty good so far. While they started 'in the wrong' for stealing Blizzards IP, they don't exactly have the usual immoral intent that goes with that type of activity. They didn't seek to make a profit instead just to provide something that wasn't available anymore.

Theur announcement is encouraging, and I hope they are able to distance themselves professionally from the streamers and Mark Kern who aren't always on the right wave length with their views.

Hoping for some form of agreement where they will help Blizzard with development of the game while a Blizzard team work on battle.net integration.

I feel like at this stage, the talks will be about trying to make something work. It might be all PR but they've opened themselves up (blizzard) to the nost. Team as they have rightly made them legitimate ambassadors of the legacy movement. Should it just be a fake PR spin and blizzard has no intention of providing legacy then nost. Will just come out and say "hey guys they don't care" which would be a PR disaster given the fact Blizzard just made them legitimate

The announcement from brack was meh, but the subsequent announcement that nost. Is meeting with Blizzard makes it very hard to conclude that legacy servers won't come or at least be considered to the full extent possible.It's all about the cost v benefit now, any game directional or similar political disagreements are now moot.

The end result will be either a firm no, never, or a yes.
Pristine servers would be a firm no, never btw.

I believe if it is a no after all of this, then it's safe to assume it will never happen. To go as far though to make a claim that this is really what Blizzard is doing when the facts literally say they are meeting with Nost to discuss Legacy servers is just grossly ignorant on the person making this claims part.

- - - Updated - - -

You're using presumptive bias to support an idea that has no basis in reality. The reality is that the gaming environment in 2016 is much different than it was in 2004. The reality is that much of what people find "enjoyable" about Vanilla WoW are vestiges of EverQuest, vestiges that WoW has spent 5 expansions trying to eliminate. The reality is that the gaming climate in 2016 supports instant gratification, not boring grindfests. MMOs are no longer the shining beacon of entertainment they were when WoW was in its heyday.

I don't think they're scared of Legacy being more popular. I think they're scared of the exact opposite. While Legacy realms would undoubtedly increase short term interest in WoW, what purpose do they serve if 95% of the people who play it simply log in, realize they prefer newer versions of WoW then never use it again? And what purpose does Blizzard have to spend the resources developing these realms right now when they could simply do what they're already trying to do with Legion and fix the problems with the current game? The small percentage of players who want Legacy realms will be happy while everybody else will be wondering why the fuck they exist in the first place.

Hate to break this to you, MMOs were never the shining beacon of entertainment. There was an audience to captivate with it, and it was successful. The downfall of MMOs that you imply isn't because MMos is a dying genre, but because none are succeeding to captivate an audience. WoD further proves this by the surge of players so massive that WoW had potential to hit the same numbers as it's peak. This is also ignoring that the risk vs reward is a lot easier to deal with NOT doing an MMO, not that MMOs again, are a dying genre. Reading some of these success stories from MMOs, it took roughly 2 years to recoup the costs of them to be pure profit, and games like rift bragged about being more successful in like the first 2/3 months of going f2p than ever before.

I'm more interested where you can support this 95% of the people will leave. If I base my knowledge off of other games success with similar servers, the population stays relatively similar till the expansions that the game started to see decrease in numbers. I know, I know, they aren't Wow blah blah balh. I agree, but given the sample size we can use, this holds true in ALL cases.

[Vineri]

One thing I will say about the nost team is that they sounds pretty good so far. While they started 'in the wrong' for stealing Blizzards IP, they don't exactly have the usual immoral intent that goes with that type of activity. They didn't seek to make a profit instead just to provide something that wasn't available anymore.

Theur announcement is encouraging, and I hope they are able to distance themselves professionally from the streamers and Mark Kern who aren't always on the right wave length with their views.

Hoping for some form of agreement where they will help Blizzard with development of the game while a Blizzard team work on battle.net integration.

I feel like at this stage, the talks will be about trying to make something work. It might be all PR but they've opened themselves up (blizzard) to the nost. Team as they have rightly made them legitimate ambassadors of the legacy movement. Should it just be a fake PR spin and blizzard has no intention of providing legacy then nost. Will just come out and say "hey guys they don't care" which would be a PR disaster given the fact Blizzard just made them legitimate

The announcement from brack was meh, but the subsequent announcement that nost. Is meeting with Blizzard makes it very hard to conclude that legacy servers won't come or at least be considered to the full extent possible.It's all about the cost v benefit now, any game directional or similar political disagreements are now moot.

The end result will be either a firm no, never, or a yes.
Pristine servers would be a firm no, never btw.

Pristine servers are not what will make me return to WoW (I agree with you). I didn't appreciate Blizzard's knee-jerk assumption that this is what legacy folks are looking for. They were WAY out of touch with reality, and will still continue to be, if they continue promoting them.

Pristine servers would be good, however, for those up for the challenge within the retail WoW version. It could hit a full server, maybe more if popular. It's just not what legacy folks were looking for ...

[Deficineiron]

I get what you are saying, but this has to be the worst analogy of them yet lol. What Nost did was illegal to US laws, but didn't steal money from Blizzard. Unless you are on a side that is very vocal about all of Nost players not paying Blizzard, and now claiming they would of payed Blizzard for current WoW.

Forum Logic easily proves you wrong. People who played on private servers, like those hardened thugs who own digital copies of the original star-wars trilogy (no cgi versions), are a menace to society and need to be on the TOP level of arcatraz. Posters have conclusively correlated playing on a private server with the social stigma of murder and other illegal things, including, as noted here, strongarm robbery, a felony.

The way I read it, the private server crowd is lucky an international tribunal isn't established to try us (yes me too) en masse for crimes against Activision-Blizzard and Bobby.

[Eliseus]

Forum Logic easily proves you wrong. People who played on private servers, like those hardened thugs who own digital copies of the original star-wars trilogy (no cgi versions), are a menace to society and need to be on the TOP level of arcatraz. Posters have conclusively correlated playing on a private server with the social stigma of murder and other illegal things, including, as noted here, strongarm robbery, a felony.

Oh right right. TO HELL WITH THEM ALL! Wonder if we could burn them like witches?

[Relapses]

I'm more interested where you can support this 95% of the people will leave. If I base my knowledge off of other games success with similar servers, the population stays relatively similar till the expansions that the game started to see decrease in numbers. I know, I know, they aren't Wow blah blah balh. I agree, but given the sample size we can use, this holds true in ALL cases.

Because you're using a perverse, romanticized idealism of Vanilla WoW to support your cause. If both current WoW and Vanilla WoW are available, why would you want to willfully subject yourself to the boring grindfest of Vanilla when you can log over to a live realm and do the same thing in a fraction of the time? After conditioning players for so many expansions that they are rewarded for nearly zero effort, I don't see how you can think that the masses of WoW's audience would suddenly become enamored by a game that is in almost every way inferior to the current product. Am I saying that everybody would feel this way? No. But I think the vast majority would just be like "Fuck this shit, I'm out," after a few hours.

This idea that Vanilla is the Holy Grail of MMOs is just... I don't understand where it comes from. And it's just plain ass-backwards to apply the logic that since Vanilla was successful somehow reintroducing it would captivate an audience just as large as its first iteration.

[Deficineiron]

Oh right right. TO HELL WITH THEM ALL! Wonder if we could burn them like witches?

important to use existing legal mechanisms, with perhaps some exceptional interpretations, to track down this dangerous mob.

your method, unfortunately, leaves the heroes (prosecutors, jailors, juries, etc) in jeopardy of later prosecution themselves once political winds change. Additionally the duck weight test may prove difficult to implement due to PETA litigation about exposing ducks to that level of hazard.

[Derpling]

There was a time when Blizzard had their high standards. That is when WoW was great. Activision standards however have only helped to ruin what once was a great game. The WoW of today can't even touch the high standards set for Vanilla WoW. I wish I could get you all to understand just how bad Legion is right now. To think one Legacy realm could quite possibly be the highest populated realm is a high possibility and I bet it scares the hell out of Activision-Blizzard. Just the idea of them even turning one on tells us they accept that many people hate what the game is today and that the older stuff minus all the quality of live changes was better.

So I will now argue that Vanilla WoW set the standard. Everything since Cataclysm doesn't meet them.

A sterling example of someone who has completely mastered the art of speaking out of their ass.

[Raone]

I thought there was suppose to be something announced today ... yet the day is getting very close to being over ... (in PST, its already Monday in most places)