Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[PenguinChan]

You think Vanilla would last 18 months? People would be demanding the next raids to be released in no time at all. Vanilla lasting 18 months, hahaha that is a good one. It isn't like it is new and fresh content to keep people busy, all strats are known, mods are better than ever compared to the pathetic mechanics Vanilla has to offer.

It's possible to make classic last 12+ months, unlike future expansions. Most notably WotLK onward, just because of the way progression works and how gating stops instant catch ups. Even with the dungeons that came later to fuel players grind to further outdo old raid content, and reduction of player requirements from time to time -- it still took awhile for any casual individual to progress.

I don't know how long it took Mythic raiders to complete stuff, but chances are its under a few months at most -- and most likely stuck at the final encounter if anything. Classic was this way for awhile because of over tuned content or player ineptitude, both of which played a heavy part in progression. But honestly you can't just look at the people who will slave away to beat ZG - Naxx ASAP. That just won't happen for 99% of the population, and most likely the majority of the raiders.

[Eliseus]

Sarcasm much? You make it sound like all of the information was available instantly to do everything from levelling to dungeons to raiding. Yeah.....it really wasn't in Vanilla and TBC. Plenty of info was hard to find and came out WELL after the fact. NOTHING is a surprise in Vanilla anymore and the best known paths to do damn near everything are well known. What is also known by that is the glaringly awful class balancing issues and lack of challenging gameplay.

If you put Vanilla out today you think it would pose the same type of challenge it did when it was live? Puhlease.

Sarcasm? The internet didn't exist back then?

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This - and they'll get some free swag like t-shirts and stuff. I called it already - they are softening the blow by discussing it on their website - a deal is being made, to keep from being sued, much like the deal they made with the contractor for the bot software company.

This guys is a factual machine! /bow.

[Uurdz]

You think Vanilla would last 18 months? People would be demanding the next raids to be released in no time at all. Vanilla lasting 18 months, hahaha that is a good one. It isn't like it is new and fresh content to keep people busy, all strats are known, mods are better than ever compared to the pathetic mechanics Vanilla has to offer.

Yeah sure for the average player base. 3 months to 60, 2 months for gear and rep, 4 months of raiding mc/zg etc
You forget there was resist gear blocks that took time to make and that very few items dropped proportional to the number of raiders. None of this full gear set in a week crap.

[Dormie]

Never said there were no casuals, just said that the game is built around a player base. Not exclusive but design intent.
It's not casual only but it's casual focused. Heroic raiding is mythic level for casuals. CMs and Mythic is the only challenging stuff and is harder than vanilla content.

Doesn't take as long though. Casual v dedicated talks about the amount of hours it takes to compete content. When I get level 300 fishing I want it to feel like an achievement. Current Content doesn't really provide that outside mythic or cm

CMs and Mythic 5 mans harder than vanilla? lol
You realize people just AoE the mobs down in those dungeons just like on heroic difficulty right? Healers just heal through it.

[Eliseus]

CMs and Mythic 5 mans harder than vanilla? lol
You realize people just AoE the mobs down in those dungeons just like on heroic difficulty right? Healers just heal through it.

Come on man, classes like a DK were way easier in classic.

[Typhoria]

CMs and Mythic 5 mans harder than vanilla? lol
You realize people just AoE the mobs down in those dungeons just like on heroic difficulty right? Healers just heal through it.

To be fair, people who are aoeing mythic dungeons vastly out gear it. At appropriate gear level, 650 you can't simply aoe things down and live. Same went for vanilla, people in Naxx gear could do massive pulls with zero consequence, just there was no reason for them to go back and do those dungeons.

[Kyanion]

CMs and Mythic 5 mans harder than vanilla? lol
You realize people just AoE the mobs down in those dungeons just like on heroic difficulty right? Healers just heal through it.

You REALLY think Vanilla dungeons are harder than CM dungeons? You are blowing my mind. Fucking TBC heroic dungeons kicked the ever loving shit out of anything Vanilla dungeons EVER produced.

And we're talking about mythic RAIDING not mythic dungeons which are fairly weak. However, Mythic+ dungeons in Legion won't be a pushover so sure keep talking that junk about Vanilla being challenging. I can't believe you really think that.

Just aoe everything down lol, yup. That is why everyone in the game can have CM golds if they want it, just go in there and AOE it all down and win! Never mind groups designed to profit off of carrying people cause it isn't something everyone can do.

*sigh* This is why these debates about Vanilla vs later editions of WoW are pointless. You aren't being honest with us or yourself.

[Eliseus]

To be fair, people who are aoeing mythic dungeons vastly out gear it. At appropriate gear level, 650 you can't simply aoe things down and live. Same went for vanilla, people in Naxx gear could do massive pulls with zero consequence, just there was no reason for them to go back and do those dungeons.

Interesting. I remember boxing my brothers paladin in TBC and still feared trying to pull an entire zone like Stratholme. I do remember on the other hand at the beginning of WoD being able to pull straight to bosses on my DK in heroic dungeons and my brothers AoE killing everything at bosses. Or just while moving non-stop.

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You REALLY think Vanilla dungeons are harder than CM dungeons? You are blowing my mind. Fucking TBC heroic dungeons kicked the ever loving shit out of anything Vanilla dungeons EVER produced.

And we're talking about mythic RAIDING not mythic dungeons which are fairly weak. However, Mythic+ dungeons in Legion won't be a pushover so sure keep talking that junk about Vanilla being challenging. I can't believe you really think that.

Just aoe everything down lol, yup. That is why everyone in the game can have CM golds if they want it, just go in there and AOE it all down and win! Never mind groups designed to profit off of carrying people cause it isn't something everyone can do.

*sigh* This is why these debates about Vanilla vs later editions of WoW are pointless. You aren't being honest with us or yourself.

Talking about raiding. I bet you know more people who have cleared Mythic in current WoD than Naxx during classic. Even worse that the population is lower now than in classic.

*sigh* This is why these debates about Vanilla vs later editions of WoW are pointless. You aren't being honest with us or yourself.

[Uurdz]

CMs and Mythic 5 mans harder than vanilla? lol
You realize people just AoE the mobs down in those dungeons just like on heroic difficulty right? Healers just heal through it.

Yes, Mythic at the very least is harder. Saying otherwise shows you lack any credibility. Only AQ40 and Naxx provided any substantial challenge. Otherwise it was just people being really noob

Edit: I mean mythic raiding - though that was obvious...

[Morbownz]

You think Vanilla would last 18 months? People would be demanding the next raids to be released in no time at all. Vanilla lasting 18 months, hahaha that is a good one. It isn't like it is new and fresh content to keep people busy, all strats are known, mods are better than ever compared to the pathetic mechanics Vanilla has to offer.

Well, since Nostalrius was up for over a year without AQ40 or Naxx available not to mention all the other private classic realms that have been around for a long time (--SNIP-- realms have been around since 2010), I'd say yes, it's already been proven that they could last over a year.

You're also ignoring the fact that most of the players these realms could appeal to would be players that never played classic, so it could potentially be new to them.

Finally, having played on several classic realms myself I can say from experience that most reliable information about class mechanics is sparse and not always easy to understand since most information is in the form of indepth class discussions on EJ.
Most of they players I met relied on the simplest of information such as BiS lists, so when it comes to endgame content things like managing resources (Mana) has a learning curve. Whether it's as hard as Mythic raiding doesn't matter, if it's enjoyable (which Nost was for many people) then it can work, how many players have completed current tier mythic raids? How many players are subbed to WoW that have no interest in mythic raiding? The percentage has to be at least half.

[Wildmoon]

Talking about raiding. I bet you know more people who have cleared Mythic in current WoD than Naxx during classic. Even worse that the population is lower now than in classic.

*sigh* This is why these debates about Vanilla vs later editions of WoW are pointless. You aren't being honest with us or yourself.

The raids of today are objectively more complex than Vanilla's raids. There were a lots of obstacle to even get things going in vanilla. I don't think the mechanics of vanilla raids would be regarded as difficult in modern WoW.

[Kyanion]

Talking about raiding. I bet you know more people who have cleared Mythic in current WoD than Naxx during classic. Even worse that the population is lower now than in classic.

*sigh* This is why these debates about Vanilla vs later editions of WoW are pointless. You aren't being honest with us or yourself.

You mean the raid tier that was out just a few months before TBC that required more tanks that most people had and didn't pull people away from massive honor farming for weapons for TBC? You do know there were more raids than just Naxx right? And they were painfully easy if you try and compare them to today's standards of heroic and mythic raiding.

LFR is there to let people see the content and normal mode is there for flexible raiding with friends/family. There are plenty of options out there in that regard. So it is hard to compare just one difficulty in raiding to what is out now. But see that is just it, you are't really trying to say Naxx was harder than current mythic raids, you are just trying to deflect with the comment about "knowing more people who have cleared mythic in current WoD than Naxx." You are trying to use completion percentages or participation to imply it was 'difficult' when the raid tier was short as hell and was also compacted with the honor changes.

I remember those last couple months of Vanilla, with everyone farming AV just idling/afking trying to hope that a few people would carry the match so they could get some honor towards OP weapons to use in TBC. It was fucking horrible. There sure wasn't much raiding going on in my realm at the time either.

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The raids of today are objectively more complex than Vanilla's raids. There were a lots of obstacle to even get things going in vanilla. I don't think the mechanics of vanilla raids would be regarded as difficult in modern WoW.

Pretty much this. The mechanics of Vanilla for their time were great, but do not stack up very well to modern WoW or hell even expansions like TBC or WotLK.

[Eliseus]

The raids of today are objectively more complex than Vanilla's raids. There were a lots of obstacle to even get things going in vanilla. I don't think the mechanics of vanilla raids would be regarded as difficult in modern WoW.

This is without a doubt more mechanics in today's raid encounters. However, as you guys so enjoyably like to point out, that doesn't mean the content is harder. Or does this argument only work when you are arguing against classic?

[Wildmoon]

Well, since Nostalrius was up for over a year without AQ40 or Naxx available not to mention all the other private classic realms that have been around for a long time (--SNIP-- realms have been around since 2010), I'd say yes, it's already been proven that they could last over a year.

You're also ignoring the fact that most of the players these realms could appeal to would be players that never played classic, so it could potentially be new to them.

Finally, having played on several classic realms myself I can say from experience that most reliable information about class mechanics is sparse and not always easy to understand since most information is in the form of indepth class discussions on EJ.
Most of they players I met relied on the simplest of information such as BiS lists, so when it comes to endgame content things like managing resources (Mana) has a learning curve. Whether it's as hard as Mythic raiding doesn't matter, if it's enjoyable (which Nost was for many people) then it can work.

What if you have to be subbed to play though? Do you think vanilla with no content update would last long?

[Baronthefirst]

Oh noes not the pissed off portion of the playerbase that isn't even playing current WoW because they are too busy bitching about how much they hate it.

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Yeah the extra 5 bucks per month they make thanks to people buying the token totally isn't just free money that helps offset sub losses. Oh and there is that other thing that they are more than just WoW now and they make money in plenty of other ways.

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Dude, are you even IN Alpha to be spouting off BS like this? Safe money is on no.

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Oh SUUUUURE they did, only lost 82% of Nost's playerbase in a year on a FREE to play game supposedly in Blizz's BEST era of gaming.

Yes I am in the Alpha and so bored of it I can't even force myself to log in. They ruined classes and specs. I am not making this crap up. I am actively doing everything I can on the Alpha forums to get things fixed. Ya I spend more time on the Alpha forums then I do in Legion. Sounds like what I did when I played WoD. It is what I did during WoD when I was playing. LMAO... Spend more time on the forums then actually in the game because the forums where more entertaining then the game.

[Eliseus]

You mean the raid tier that was out just a few months before TBC that required more tanks that most people had and didn't pull people away from massive honor farming for weapons for TBC? You do know there were more raids than just Naxx right? And they were painfully easy if you try and compare them to today's standards of heroic and mythic raiding.

LFR is there to let people see the content and normal mode is there for flexible raiding with friends/family. There are plenty of options out there in that regard. So it is hard to compare just one difficulty in raiding to what is out now. But see that is just it, you are't really trying to say Naxx was harder than current mythic raids, you are just trying to deflect with the comment about "knowing more people who have cleared mythic in current WoD than Naxx." You are trying to use completion percentages or participation to imply it was 'difficult' when the raid tier was short as hell and was also compacted with the honor changes.

I remember those last couple months of Vanilla, with everyone farming AV just idling/afking trying to hope that a few people would carry the match so they could get some honor towards OP weapons to use in TBC. It was fucking horrible. There sure wasn't much raiding going on in my realm at the time either.

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Pretty much this. The mechanics of Vanilla for their time were great, but do not stack up very well to modern WoW or hell even expansions like TBC or WotLK.

So the TLDR version answering of my comment is yes, you know more people who have cleared Mythic WoD raids than Naxx.

[Wildmoon]

This is without a doubt more mechanics in today's raid encounters. However, as you guys so enjoyably like to point out, that doesn't mean the content is harder. Or does this argument only work when you are arguing against classic?

You will have to define what difficulty means to you first. If you take into account getting 40 people together including more than 3 tanks,preparing things like res gears etc and more then yes, vanilla raiding was "difficult".

[Kyanion]

Yes I am in the Alpha and so bored of it I can't even force myself to log in. They ruined classes and specs. I am not making this crap up. I am actively doing everything I can on the Alpha forums to get things fixed. Ya I spend more time on the Alpha forums then I do in Legion. Sounds like what I did when I played WoD. It is what I did during WoD when I was playing. LMAO... Spend more time on the forums then actually in the game because the forums where more entertaining then the game.

I can only speak about my alpha experiences from my class/spec which is Balance Druid, so far I'm enjoying the changes. I've not run into any friends complaining heavily about tanking/healing though. Not saying it isn't a thing, just my personal experiences aren't the same at this point.

[Eliseus]

What if you have to be subbed to play though? Do you think vanilla with no content update would last long?

The circles goes on! All other games who have done this for many years indicates that a population will not only stay, but will come back again on the next set of servers.

[Kyanion]

So the TLDR version answering of my comment is yes, you know more people who have cleared Mythic WoD raids than Naxx.

Sure when using your poor example, give yourself a cookie. You are in the minority in thinking Vanilla is harder than current WoW in regards to raiding.