[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Graeham]

I never understand why ppl even like Sansa, her story is so boring that last season they had to give her the role of another book character because her story is plain boring book-wise as tv-wise.

She's preferably to Jon Snow as far as I'm concerned considering she's linked to the intrigue that surrounded King's Landing which is something that drew many people into the setting in the first place. The fantasy elements in Game of Thrones bore me and I'm a huge fan of the fantasy genre. I blame the sudden shift towards focusing on it after the first few books.

Didn't the author state that he originally planned for the books to end after the third?

[Fayenoor]

She's preferably to Jon Snow as far as I'm concerned

Really?

She was as petty as characters go. Go back to book 1 when she sided against Arya and got Arya's wolf executed. She would always be boasting that she would become the queen (by marrying Geoffrey) and relentlessly teased Arya about it.

As far as I am concerned, she is the worst of the Starks.

[Graeham]

Really?

She was as petty as characters go. Go back to book 1 when she sided against Arya and got Arya's wolf executed. She would always be boasting that she would become the queen (by marrying Geoffrey) and relentlessly teased Arya about it.

As far as I am concerned, she is the worst of the Starks.

She has flaws and watching her evolve from someone naive into someone stronger has been rather interesting. Much more interesting to me than Jon being shrouded in plot armour at every turn and coming back from the dead in a setting that tries to pride itself on 'consequences' and not having a happy fate for every character.

[Jotaux]

How do you define who has plot armor? Why do people dislike plot armor so much? You can't have a story involving people without some sort of plot armor.

[Grimbold21]

Really?

She was as petty as characters go. Go back to book 1 when she sided against Arya and got Arya's wolf executed. She would always be boasting that she would become the queen (by marrying Geoffrey) and relentlessly teased Arya about it.

As far as I am concerned, she is the worst of the Starks.

Minor correction there, it wasn't Arya's direwolf that was executed, but Sansa's.

[Wewlad]

She has flaws and watching her evolve from someone naive into someone stronger has been rather interesting. Much more interesting to me than Jon being shrouded in plot armour at every turn and coming back from the dead in a setting that tries to pride itself on 'consequences' and not having a happy fate for every character.

Well, Jon Snow is the exception along with Beric Dondarrion. Just because one exception happens, doesn't mean the rule no longer stands. And death as a consequence has gotten rather tiring since D&D prefer to just butcher characters if they can't fit within the streamlined story. I prefer that Jon has returned, but as a changed man.

[Roveredo]

These small (or not) inconsistencies irk me.

Another example, i am aware that the Bolton/Umber deal is a mess, but Small Jon coming up and telling Ramsay "well yeah, if my father were still alive, i'd probably kill him too".

What? Great Jon didn't die at the RW, yes, including the show.

Guess the writers went "meh let's just sweep this one under the rug and hope no one will notice"

Smalljon mentions that he would've killed Greatjon himself had he not died of natural causes.

[Grimbold21]

Smalljon mentions that he would've killed Greatjon himself had he not died of natural causes.

All he says is "i would've done the same, if he hadn't done me the favor of dieing on his own."

The last time we hear of GreatJon is in the RW when he's made prisoner by the Freys. After that there's nothing that pertains to his well being.

[Deleted]

All he says is "i would've done the same, if he hadn't done me the favor of dieing on his own."

The last time we hear of GreatJon is in the RW when he's made prisoner by the Freys. After that there's nothing that pertains to his well being.

Do I remember completely wrong or was Greatjon actually killed in the book? I think it was mentioned that even though he was drunk as hell it still too a lot of men to take him down. Perhaps we can assume that even in the show a person like Greatjon would most likely die fighting rather than getting imprisoned.

[Deleted]

The Greatjon isn't dead in the books, he's being held at the Twins, the only reason the Umbers send troops to aid the Boltons is because the Greatjon is a hostage.

[Grimbold21]

Do I remember completely wrong or was Greatjon actually killed in the book? I think it was mentioned that even though he was drunk as hell it still too a lot of men to take him down. Perhaps we can assume that even in the show a person like Greatjon would most likely die fighting rather than getting imprisoned.

No, the part about him being drunk is true and it was needed 8 men to subdue him. Great Jon is alive and held captive by the Freys. On the other hand, Small Jon, the son and the guy we see in this week's episode, dies at the Red Wedding trying to protect Robb.

Later on, like half of house Umber or smth pledge allegiance to the Boltons, although Roose highly suspects of their loyalty, since the only reason they do it is because their leader is a prisoner.

[Steve French]

See ya Olly, you little shit.

[Sindile]

Honestly, the only part of this season I really dislike is the fucking Umbers siding with the Boltons. It pisses me off to no end that the show writers decided to completely side them with the Boltons, seeing as the Umbers are such a fanatical and loyal supporter of the starks in the books. I really don't think that it is all a fakeout, as there are multiple leaks siding the Umbers with the Boltons until the end. Fuck that

[EyelessCrow]

Really?

She was as petty as characters go. Go back to book 1 when she sided against Arya and got Arya's wolf executed. She would always be boasting that she would become the queen (by marrying Geoffrey) and relentlessly teased Arya about it.

As far as I am concerned, she is the worst of the Starks.

Arya's wolf was not executed.

[xuros]

Yes, I think I saw a video regarding the science behind it.

So youre one of those types. Did you enjoy the science behind the mermaid video to?

[Gaman]

They could have made ToJ exactly as written in the books (which was kinda just a drugged up dream, and not by any means a 100% this is how it happened fact), and people would still complain because it didnt look exactly like how they have imagined it for like the last 1 or 20 years, depending on when you read the book.

And like it or not, but the show dont cater to book readers in the regard of what backstory you know from the books, that have not been brought up one way or another in the tv-series. And I have read the books, only once (and theres only so much a man can remember from one read through), but looked enough on wikis and shit to know perfectly well what Dawn is. (And before I get shat on, yes I know Dawn was mentioned, and described in text, in the white book/book of brothers in 401 for a total of about 2sec, "Ser Arthur Dayne, sword of the moring", was however said out loud, and repeated in the ToJ scene).

But when i watch the show, I consider myself a show-watcher. And as a show-watcher, what the fuck is Dawn? Including it would mean including a sword we have never heard of, or seen. Pale as milk, almost glowing. A sword that has nothing to do with the story beeing told, which is not the story about Dawn, but the story about Lyanna. Tossing in a almost magic looking sword would get viewers focusing on the wrong thing...

And since I doubt we will get any more scenes with Arthur Dayne, why make a big deal out of a sword we will only see for a 5min scene? Sure, if they were going to show Ned going to Starfall, delivering back the sword and all that, making a big deal out of that storyline, they should have. But as it played out, and with Dayne probably not popping up on-screen ever again. Making not a big deal out of the sword was the smart thing to do.

The show-watcher me would rather have seen Ice somehow make it into that scene, (and again, as a show-watcher, what the fuck is Ice?). I mean Ned's fucking big sword. Just for some good old nostalgia. But I know it would have looked dumb as fuck seeing him fight with said big fucking sword... (Jon vs Fookin Legend Karl Tanner comes to mind, Longclaw vs daggers, big vs small, it just didnt look that good)

So as a non-experienced sword fighter. Having him dual wield made him stand out from the rest of them, and it looked kinda badass. (I will remember that dual wielding badass from that one flashback bran once had...) The focus was kept on him simply beeing a great fucking fighter, not him carrying some book famous sword. And in a 4v1, it, to me, looked like a great plan, theres only so much I imagine you can manage to parry when attacked from 4 angles with a single sword. I think it was a great fight, one of the best they have done. It was actually 4v1, and all 4 attacking at once, not go 1v1 and dying one after the other, (which is somethings that happends way to often in television).

And I can agree on the certain things about dual-wielding, the force of a single swing and all that. Thats easily demonstrated by going to a "punch a ball" machine, try hitting it with both fists at the same time, then with one, I know what will give the highest score... But the way this fight started, 6v2, then 4v1 and so on, having him dual-wield worked great, because it actually looked like it gave him an advantage...

And is the half-asleep while reading book-reader me a bit sad we didnt get the book described Dawn and Dayne? ofc. It would have been a great nod to the book readers (which would have been well deserved, after going a bit too off-book on some storylines). But in the end, tv-story wise, it simply wasnt needed, and I also think it wouldnt have translated that well from book to screen.

6 years in, time to start accepting that show =/= books people. Start view them as two seperate enteties and you'll have 2x the fun, instead of just 1x the butthurt.

My 0.02$, well.. maybe a bit more.

[apepi]

Oathbreakers:

The woman in mereen gave up her friends
the four people hung by jon
the umbers for breaking loyalty from the starks

Jon broke an Oath for letting the Wildings across the wall
Eddard broke honor by killing that sword master dude
Sam broke it by telling Gilly he would always be by her side

[Skayth]

Jon broke an Oath for letting the Wildings across the wall
Eddard broke honor by killing that sword master dude
Sam broke it by telling Gilly he would always be by her side

last one is true, eddard fought for his life, and nowhere in the night's watch oath does it state that wildings are banned from entering the south. rather, it encourages saving them, as they are apart of "the realms of men"

[apepi]

last one is true, eddard fought for his life, and nowhere in the night's watch oath does it state that wildings are banned from entering the south. rather, it encourages saving them, as they are apart of "the realms of men"

Yeah yeah, but it was 'understood' that it was who they were defending it for.

[Khadgar]

Stannis still isn't confirmed dead btw. I think we'll see him this season again.

Watchers on the Wall's editor-in-chief highlighted the Baratheon section of "Game of Thrones: The Noble Houses of Westeros Seasons 1-5" which states quite concretely, "Stannis was killed outside of Winterfell by Brienne of Tarth, who wished to avenge Renly's death."

Brienne's paragraph even ends with, "Brienne killed Stannis." Sounds pretty permanent and official to me.

http://www.hngn.com/articles/143296/...d-jon-snow.htm