[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Vanyali]

Burst potential aside it can't feel engaging to mash chaos strike/annihilation for two minutes

Actually.. it was amusing, because I kept critting. And I was rushing around to get my momentum buff, so that kept it from just mashing CS only.

[Warstar]

yes, but usually you get launched back, and i haven't been able to replicate it

Or you were on a hill. Or there was an ant behind you. I've found that a lot of the time there's an elevation change that you don't go backwards at all.

As for having to talent to heal... duh? Have you guys never played wow before? Look at live and a lot of classes might have some sort of heal and then a talented heal. Rogues have recoup and then can talent to leeching poison. A better DH equivalent would be warriors have victory rush (shattered souls) and then have to talent into frenzied regen. Granted some of this stuff changed for Legion but talenting for healing has always been a thing. But really this is more a fact that DHs really should get full access to talents at 100 like everyone else. The "learning curve" for DHs is terrible. They suck and are boring til 102, get to solo stuff at 104 and start to just sky rocket at 106/107.

[Delimit]

Have they ever actually mentioned why they were trying to keep talents gated so high up? I mean, I get that we start at a higher level and wouldn't get a chance to "progress" through the talents normally otherwise, but would it really matter at this point?

[Warstar]

Have they ever actually mentioned why they were trying to keep talents gated so high up? I mean, I get that we start at a higher level and wouldn't get a chance to "progress" through the talents normally otherwise, but would it really matter at this point?

There has been no blue post in regards to keeping the current talent mode or changing it.

[Raiju]

Have they ever actually mentioned why they were trying to keep talents gated so high up? I mean, I get that we start at a higher level and wouldn't get a chance to "progress" through the talents normally otherwise, but would it really matter at this point?

Other than demonic('s self healing potential) being locked at 110 and soul rending at 104 I very much enjoyed getting a new talent every 2 levels.

It will make DH look bad in the prepatch, though.

[Manu9]

Other than demonic('s self healing potential) being locked at 110 and soul rending at 104 I very much enjoyed getting a new talent every 2 levels.

It will make DH look bad in the prepatch, though.

Tbh, the talents are really important that you feel gimped while leveling, at least that's what I felt.

[Baelroc]

Not every spec needs built in self healing (and they especially don't need it for free from other spells designed for other things like VR), the entire point of all of these changes across the board for classes is that not everyone is supposed to have one of everything (or 7-8/10 of tools in various amalgamations) and asking for them repeatedly citing what other classes is really not conducive to that discussion, in my opinion.

I disagree. Its fine if a few special snowflakes have something like self healing. But EVERY melee across the board has on demand self healing. Its that way because melee are in the thick of it and generally going to take more damage than ranged because of it.

Demon Hunters are the only melee that does not, and that IS a problem. If it is going to be how you say, then fine. But remove it from most other classes.

I know you aren't discussing PVP, but that is where this issue really shows itself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Havoc needs an (talented or not) on demand heal with a high fury cost and a moderate CD.

[Dimzum]

Actually.. it was amusing, because I kept critting. And I was rushing around to get my momentum buff, so that kept it from just mashing CS only.

This is what I have found as well. Did Violet hold myself last night, though only at 107. Single target damage on the last few dungeons I have completed since switching over to a momentum build has been nuts. Timing VR/FB to get back in can be a little tricky and the terrain can have a lot to do with that.

[nox597]

Perhaps something like what Illidan has in Heroes of the Storm, where he has a passive that heals him for 30% of the damage of his auto attacks?

I know it would probably be OP, but the original Demon Hunters in Warcraft 3 had Evasion, which was a flat 10/20/30% damage reduction against all damage.

I know there will be a legendary that causes Blur to also grant 20% leech, but... I don't see that getting used often, unfortunately.

What if there was a PvP talent that replaced the Level 19 talent that caused your autoattacks to restore HP equal to the damage dealt? That would stay somewhat in the fantasy of the class, provide some extra healing for PvP (where most of the complaints are, at max level), and increase the value of Chaos Blades in PvP.

[Nephili]

Question: For those of you on the beta, how do you keep track of your momentum buff? I can't seem to find a Legion ready Weak Auras, and find myself watching too much other stuff to not die during heroics?

[Baelroc]

Question: For those of you on the beta, how do you keep track of your momentum buff? I can't seem to find a Legion ready Weak Auras, and find myself watching too much other stuff to not die during heroics?

WeakAuras from the curse client works just fine for me in the beta. That is the by and far the best way to keep track of the buff.

[Dimzum]

Question: For those of you on the beta, how do you keep track of your momentum buff? I can't seem to find a Legion ready Weak Auras, and find myself watching too much other stuff to not die during heroics?

Here's the thread.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...k-Auras-Thread

I use Vanyali's Weak Auras to track the buffs and it seems to work well.

[Vanyali]

Here's the thread.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...k-Auras-Thread

I use Vanyali's Weak Auras to track the buffs and it seems to work well.

Annnd this reminded me I was gonna reupload 'em. I can't figure out why the cooldown function won't work though >_<

[Ilir]

How much of a dps loss is it if I don't use the momentum spec ?

[Vanyali]

How much of a dps loss is it if I don't use the momentum spec ?

Fairly large. It times too well with Demonic and prepared.

[Ilir]

Mmh okay, thanks. Guess I'll go with momentum then... tho I already see myself falling off of cliffs T_T

[Deleted]

Fairly large. It times too well with Demonic and prepared.

Would it be a far fetch to assume the momentum build was mostly created for aoe/shits and giggles and that the more conservative build will be tuned to be nr. 1 on single target dps?

Also currently what is the priority of the cd's for the momentum build?

[Dimzum]

So I'm obviously still getting use to the momentum flow. I don't have demonic yet, but I imagine it will start to get even more hectic. That being said I'm curious the priority of a few things and what you others do when playing. Now let's assume you can't cancel VR and use either FR or FB to get back into melee (if needed).

Meta - On the pull, do you pop immediately? Throw down Glaives then pop Meta, or VR, Meta and go to town? I've been running in, dropping glaives, VR > FB > Meta and by then I am swimming in enough Fury to keep me going. By the time I've dumped most of that fury VR (or FB) is up and I can go again. During meta I imagine you try to keep uptime on momentum and prepared up as high as possible.

Eye Beam and Demonic - Here I imagine you top off fury before using Eye Beam. Do you VR then EB? Or EB, VR and then back into melee (FB or FR)?

[Vanyali]

Would it be a far fetch to assume the momentum build was mostly created for aoe/shits and giggles and that the more conservative build will be tuned to be nr. 1 on single target dps?

Also currently what is the priority of the cd's for the momentum build?

Might have been the intent, but that's not how it plays out, no. And I don't see how it *can* be, frankly, considering how hard you burst when demonic is up.

Eyebeam if it's off CD to proc meta form, annihilation when you're transformed (unless aoe; then blade dance is placed before it, and first blood can be chosen). VR before an eyebeam for the buff & fury is essential, as it pooling, to making the maximum use of it.

FoTI when it comes off CD if not speced into RoTI, if speced into RoTI then gaming it with the death of many adds to pour damage into a big mob is the strategy when possible.

Other than that, felblade when off CD, chaos strike when a DB or FB will cap you.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Mmh okay, thanks. Guess I'll go with momentum then... tho I already see myself falling off of cliffs T_T

I think it's safe to say that if there's an encounter where the Momentum playstyle will get you killed (ie. "a dead dps is no dps") that taking one of the other 2 options (Nemesis is 2nd on that tier IIRC) would be the higher DPS option. Obviously that's quite situational and i seem to recall @Vanyali saying there was an encounter (or 2) where playing with a Momentum build was extremely difficult due to positioning requirements or shit on the ground or something (i forget which fights he was having trouble with).