20 Man Mythic: Success or Failure?

[Dukenukem]

Considering I was one of 7 recruiters constantly (I mean 5 hours a day) looking for new blood and we still died. No. You are simply wrong. This was on a High Population Realm too. We even at one point merged with another guild, almost all of them left. There is no special snowflake shit here. The shit stinks. Quit making excuses for a design choice that should have been the number 15 instead of 20.

If you really put 5 hours of constant recruitment and still fail to get 20-30 ppl...
1) You are reeeealy bad at your job.
2) Your guild has NOTHING to offer
3) You have insane entry standard and limiting yourself (see num 1)
4) On a dead realm (dead like 20-30 ppl online in peak)
5) Your guild have super bad reputation (see 2)

I cant imagine if I had 7 recruit officers that I wouldnt asemble second 20 team. Just cant

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7.5 years leading a raid guild. The simple fact is, it just is not that hard to go from a 10 man to a 20 man raid team, if the team is dedicated to raiding. When Blizzard introduced 10 man raids, I knew it would come back to bite them. Everybody and their brother suddenly thought they could make their own guild and raid, and we ended up with way too many guilds, and a dilution of talent.

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The design went from 20 and 40 man raids down to 10 and 25. Allowing a 10 man raid caused too many raid guilds to spring up. Increasing the size to 20 means many of those guilds needed to simply go away, by joining other guilds, merging etc. Casual raid guilds can still do 10 mans, but lets face it, end game guilds should be able to evolve and thrive under the current model. If they can't manage to do that, they simply were never that much of a guild to begin with.

Cant quote this enough, too bad its long for signature

[Lilija]

Please point me to the statistics showing that raid participation is declining more quickly than the general population of the game and back up your claims.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post40425517

[Osmeric]

Add on top that raiding has been the only real endgame for WOD and you just can't deny the fact that 20m Mythic has been a failure—at least if the goal wasn't just to make it more exclusive with the help of a lazy logistics barrier.

But I thought exclusive content was supposed to be a good thing. That's what all the forum hardcore tell me.

Is it that exclusivity is good right up to the point that YOU are excluded? Imagine that!

[Gorgodeus]

Considering I was one of 7 recruiters constantly (I mean 5 hours a day) looking for new blood and we still died. No. You are simply wrong. This was on a High Population Realm too. We even at one point merged with another guild, almost all of them left. There is no special snowflake shit here. The shit stinks. Quit making excuses for a design choice that should have been the number 15 instead of 20.

Then you quite simply had a shit guild, and are one of the guilds that should have gone away that I spoke of. First off, 10 man guilds were not raiding the hardest content. 25 man guilds were. Any decent 10 man guild would have made the transition from 10-20 without issue.

[Kyriani]

Then you quite simply had a shit guild, and are one of the guilds that should have gone away that I spoke of. First off, 10 man guilds were not raiding the hardest content. 25 man guilds were. Any decent 10 man guild would have made the transition from 10-20 without issue.

Paragon begs to differ

[cFortyfive]

Obviously 20m this addon has been great for anyone with reasonable experience on the matter.

lost choices at the gain of nothing.

How much of a choice is double effort for nothing ?

Paragon begs to differ

Actually no.

[Paula Deen]

Then you quite simply had a shit guild, and are one of the guilds that should have gone away that I spoke of. First off, 10 man guilds were not raiding the hardest content. 25 man guilds were. Any decent 10 man guild would have made the transition from 10-20 without issue.

10 Man has a 5 Man Roster?

15 man works great!

25 Man has a 30 Man Roster?

15 man works all the same.

Your argument is stupid.

[Kyriani]

Obviously 20m this addon has been great for anyone with reasonable experience on the matter.

How much of a choice is double effort for nothing ?

Actually no.

Paragon DID quit raiding did they not?

[cFortyfive]

Paragon DID quit raiding did they not?

Yes. So what ?

[Khorm]

Considering I was one of 7 recruiters constantly (I mean 5 hours a day) looking for new blood and we still died. No. You are simply wrong. This was on a High Population Realm too. We even at one point merged with another guild, almost all of them left. There is no special snowflake shit here. The shit stinks. Quit making excuses for a design choice that should have been the number 15 instead of 20.

Your guild must have been pretty bad then.

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Paragon DID quit raiding did they not?

By placing massive restrictions on themselves by only wanting to speak Finnish.

[I Push Buttons]

In this thread:
95% of people saying it failed and explaining why.
5% of people saying it is perfect and everyone who disagrees with them is bad at the game and should learn to play.

[Kyriani]

Yes. So what ?

And they quit why? Oh that's right... because according to you, Paragon (one of the top if not THE top raiding guild in the world) is apparently not a "decent guild" since they couldn't "make the transition from 10-20 without issue."

[Khorm]

In this thread:
95% of people saying it failed and explaining why.
5% of people saying it is perfect and everyone who disagrees with them is bad at the game and should learn to play.

Sounds like the right numbers that should be in mythic.

[cFortyfive]

And they quit why? Oh that's right... because according to you, Paragon (one of the top if not THE top raiding guild in the world) is apparently not a "decent guild" since they couldn't "make the transition from 10-20 without issue."

They did make the transition and had a good run. They were unwilling to make a tiny change guaranteeing their existence till the end of wow. Cry me a river.

[Kyriani]

Your guild must have been pretty bad then.

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By placing massive restrictions on themselves by only wanting to speak Finnish.

And you don't think any other guild has issues like that to deal with? Being so devoted to raiding that you throw away the very fundamentals that make the game enjoyable to you and your friends basically ruins the game IMO.

[Gorgodeus]

10 Man has a 5 Man Roster?

15 man works great!

25 Man has a 30 Man Roster?

15 man works all the same.

Your argument is stupid.

No, what is stupid is all the fail 10 man guilds whining because they were incapable of transitioning from 10 to 20, and want to blame Blizzard for their own ineptitude.

During Wrath and Cata the guild I led ran three 10 man raid teams and one 25 man. This also happened to be on a server that was very low pop for its entire history. We did not sit on our ass with only one 10 man raid team. We were competing with 2 other guilds for realm firsts, and due to our reputation, we had little issue with recruiting. We had to do very little recruiting at all, as a matter of fact. We had applicants every day, and were turning people down due to having all we needed.

I am sorry, but if your guild was/is worth a shit, people would be beating down the doors to get in. The fact that you had 7 people recruiting is all that one needs to know. No top notch guild needs that many people recruiting.

[I Push Buttons]

Sounds like the right numbers that should be in mythic.

Too bad mythic has like half a percent participation rates, of an already dwindling population.

You and your buddies might find it difficult to act superior to everyone when the game no longer exists because everyone quit.

[Relapses]

Too bad mythic has like half a percent participation rates, of an already dwindling population.

You and your buddies might find it difficult to act superior to everyone when the game no longer exists because everyone quit.

If everybody quits, it won't be because of Mythic's participation levels.

[I Push Buttons]

No, what is stupid is all the fail 10 man guilds whining because they were incapable of transitioning from 10 to 20, and want to blame Blizzard for their own ineptitude.

During Wrath and Cata the guild I led ran three 10 man raid teams and one 25 man. This also happened to be on a server that was very low pop for its entire history. We did not sit on our ass with only one 10 man raid team. We were competing with 2 other guilds for realm firsts, and due to our reputation, we had little issue with recruiting. We had to do very little recruiting at all, as a matter of fact. We had applicants every day, and were turning people down due to having all we needed.

I am sorry, but if your guild was/is worth a shit, people would be beating down the doors to get in. The fact that you had 7 people recruiting is all that one needs to know. No top notch guild needs that many people recruiting.

Oh look... Another "my server only had 12 people on it, but my superior guild had 17 ten man raid teams and it was a simple matter to get into mythic cuz we were gud!" anecdote.

[cFortyfive]

Being so devoted to raiding that you throw away the very fundamentals that make the game enjoyable to you and your friends basically ruins the game IMO.

one of the top if not THE top raiding guild in the world

Pick one.
You're aspiring to be the best at something and not some random dogshitter. One day that choice meant to either call it quits or open their ranks. They decided in favor of the former. The end.

You and your buddies might find it difficult to act superior to everyone when the game no longer exists because everyone quit.

I know that's a hard to grasp thought but some people aren't so addicted to the game they have to guarantee its existence regardless of the cost.