LFR: Success or Failure?

[Teebone]

The titles, the mounts, are all irrelevant.

Only one thing truly serves as separation:

POWER.

And real power should only be in the hands of those making a significant effort to acquire it. Hell, in today's WoW, that significant effort means you're just a decent player and you log for 4 hours/week to kill some bosses. No need for progression aspirations, no need for very tight schedules, and in HFC, no need for guild either - just hit Openraid and pug it out.

This is setting the standards VERY LOW - and this is for Mythic gear. Heroic gear is absolutely great too, and it requires way less efforts, and I won't even touch Normal.

I think it would be more fun if the real power were in the hands of the ones that steal the most gold. Just like real life!

[Perkunas]

Its almost like different people like different things.

You're absolutley right about that. You are a unicorn though, sir. That Person who's capable of doing content more difficult than LFR but opts for it and that mystical person who actually liked Garrisons. This is your fault is what you're saying though.

[Jerichofr]

For me its a failure, just bring back the effort you had to do when finding a group

They have that. It's called "Group Finder", and it's garbage. Just like oQueue was.

[Jtbrig7390]

You're absolutley right about that. You are a unicorn though, sir. That Person who's capable of doing content more difficult than LFR but opts for it and that mystical person who actually liked Garrisons. This is your fault is what you're saying though.

You are correct and yet there is many more like me tho. I can do NM+ raiding (Look at my NM kills on my paladin to see). But I have zero interest in HC and Mythic raiding. I don't play WoW to get a challenge, I play it to have fun and improve my character.

Come legion good chance I won't do NM at all and stick to LFR and maybe mythic dungeons. I will grind my face off to finish my weapon and get the legendary's

Legion IMO is looking great and I can't wait.

[Jerichofr]

You're absolutley right about that. You are a unicorn though, sir. That Person who's capable of doing content more difficult than LFR but opts for it and that mystical person who actually liked Garrisons. This is your fault is what you're saying though.

I do LFR with my friends that aren't capable of doing Normal+, and do Normal+ with my guild mates. Win-win for me. LFR is great. Inclusion is awesome. Exclusivity can DIAF.

[Jtbrig7390]

They have that. It's called "Group Finder", and it's garbage.

Agreed and that's why come legion if it isn't soloable or queable I won't be doing it.

Had enough of the shit fest that is LFG.

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You should be miserable if you choose not to raid properly, or do some high rated PvP.

And this is why you don't have the multi-billion dollar MMO and blizzard does.

People don't just "Be Miserable" they leave. You do realize people leaving WoW is bad for it and for you right?

Hell LFR is the reason your even getting raids.

[Jerichofr]

Agreed and that's why come legion if it isn't soloable or queable I won't be doing it.

Had enough of the shit fest that is LFG.

Exactly. Any time ANYTHING is in the hands of the players it turns into a haves vs. have-nots disaster. the new Group Finder tool has become that. (As oQueue was before it.)

[Greenmagoo]

Success.

Reasoning: Blizzard would've removed it if it was a failure.

Meanwhile scenarios which was claimed by the devs to be a success and popular have been removed.

[Perkunas]

I do LFR with my friends that aren't capable of doing Normal+, and do Normal+ with my guild mates. Win-win for me. LFR is great. Inclusion is awesome. Exclusivity can DIAF.

That's cool that you like easy things which provide no challenge or achievement. I hope they make LFR the only difficulty and make the bosses fall over when the first person attacks it. I hope you get the best gear possible from this fun and easy content and that everybody gets every mount and title too. We should all have the best gear and best stuff in the game without having to put in more than the minimal effort. I truly want these things for you BUT I WANT A GAME THAT YOU GUYS WONT POISON. I want a game that's the exact opposite and you can have Warcraft and we can have that game and there's more than enough room for both games to work because we aren't the same market.

[Jtbrig7390]

Exactly. Any time ANYTHING is in the hands of the players it turns into a haves vs. have-nots disaster. the new Group Finder tool has become that. (As oQueue was before it.)

Yep and ill avoid it like the plague come Legion. As of the other day I am officially done with WOD and happy I don't have to step back into LFG.

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That's cool that you like easy things which provide no challenge or achievement. I hope they make LFR the only difficulty and make the bosses fall over when the first person attacks it. I hope you get the best gear possible from this fun and easy content and that everybody gets every mount and title too. We should all have the best gear and best stuff in the game without having to put in more than the minimal effort. I truly want these things for you BUT I WANT A GAME THAT YOU GUYS WONT POISON. I want a game that's the exact opposite and you can have Warcraft and we can have that game and there's more than enough room for both games to work because we aren't the same market.

Then go play Wildstar because I hear its doing well.

Also nice strawman.

[Perkunas]

Yep and ill avoid it like the plague come Legion. As of the other day I am officially done with WOD and happy I don't have to step back into LFG.

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Then go play Wildstar because I hear its doing well.

Also nice strawman.

And the Wildstar fallacy.... Wildstar failed because it had a horrible launch, it was exteremely buggy, they didn't make good on any of the promises beyond "hard raiding", and they once again focused on the destination over the journey. The entire last zone bugged for me and several other players in that it was under water. I had to grind to cap because I was drowning on the ground for the last 2 levels of my character. Even then it only was a few days to cap then grinding buggy and unfinished adventures and dungeons. Teribble balance, badly designed systems. I could go on all day because I actually PLAYED THE GAME and I don't have to rely on some mantra of people who like to talk shit without actually being there.

I was being genuine though. I really hope Warcraft gives you all the easy content you like. I don't want them to waste their time with any challenging content anymore because let's face it they don't need the elitist crowd. All I ask is that you guys stick with this game and don't demand every other game cater to that style of play. Each MMO that comes up you get these people from Warcraft that demand the new game have all the easy things that Warcraft has and the devs cave to the crying and the game flops.

[Firebert]

Meanwhile scenarios which was claimed by the devs to be a success and popular have been removed.

I'm not a dev...

I don't think Scenarios were a success; they were an attempt by Blizzard to break from the role trifecta, but were not efficient enough IMO (regarding content vs development).

[Jtbrig7390]

I was being genuine though. I really hope Warcraft gives you all the easy content you like. I don't want them to waste their time with any challenging content anymore because let's face it they don't need the elitist crowd. All I ask is that you guys stick with this game and don't demand every other game cater to that style of play. Each MMO that comes up you get these people from Warcraft that demand the new game have all the easy things that Warcraft has and the devs cave to the crying and the game flops.

Never asked for easy content.

I enjoy LFR and I enjoy NM make NM queable in legion ill do it. Now Heroic and Mythic hold no interest to me but that doesn't mean I don't want challenging content in WoW. I have a interest in the new dungeon system but sadly its not queable so fuck it.

Wow needs a good balance of both and it needs to be just that Easy and Challenging content. The only challenge I want in WoW is what I already got and that's trying to solo old raids.

You act like there is one voice and it speaks for everyone. Not everyone ask's for faceroll content *Not anyone has from what I have seen*.

[Perkunas]

This pretty much sums up the reality of the situation. Not only does Blizzard deem LFR a success by keeping it, they deem their attempts to neuter it in WoD such an abject failure that within one expansion they are returning it to the way it worked in MoP. All the arguments and whining by the midcores fall in the face of this reality.

Do you honestly think that sub numbers are going to climb to beyond the MOP numbers for more than a few months at most? Even with this change it's merely a bandade on a severed artery. Tier gear in LFR is not the reason why the game is floundering. If 100k people listed it as why they unsubbed I'd eat my hat. The game is old, it's stale, there's no community, it's no longer an MMO it's now this lobby game that is a shadow of it's former self. There's nothing to do beyond raiding really for PVE content.

[Jtbrig7390]

Even if this plan would fail and result in WoW's accelerated death - it would still be better. WoW would die a dignified hero death, with its spine intact, without having to change its design basics to accommodate an aging and unreliable demographic.

So you rather WoW die then millions of people enjoy it.

What you think WoW was in TBC/Classic it never was. Once again for the 1000000th time WoW has always been casual. To want to see the game die because you don't like the state its in says alot about you.

Don't like the dam thing don't play it.

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Do you honestly think that sub numbers are going to climb to beyond the MOP numbers for more than a few months at most? Even with this change it's merely a bandade on a severed artery. Tier gear in LFR is not the reason why the game is floundering. If 100k people listed it as why they unsubbed I'd eat my hat. The game is old, it's stale, there's no community, it's no longer an MMO it's now this lobby game that is a shadow of it's former self. There's nothing to do beyond raiding really for PVE content.

LFR being the state its in is why I didn't sub until I bought the WOD-CE on sell. If it stayed at full price I wouldn't have played WOD at all. There is community its called guilds go join one.

Also last checked its still a MMO your opinion on the state of the game doesn't change this FACT

[Jerichofr]

Do you honestly think that sub numbers are going to climb to beyond the MOP numbers for more than a few months at most? Even with this change it's merely a bandade on a severed artery. Tier gear in LFR is not the reason why the game is floundering. If 100k people listed it as why they unsubbed I'd eat my hat. The game is old, it's stale, there's no community, it's no longer an MMO it's now this lobby game that is a shadow of it's former self. There's nothing to do beyond raiding really for PVE content.

I don't care if WoW climbs back up higher than MoP numbers, as long as they keep making the game the way I like to play it, how many subs the game has doesn't concern me. FFXIV is doing fine, and they don't have near the numbers of WoW. The difference there is, that they have something for EVERYONE. They also have a duty (dungeon/trial/raid) finder. Main thing there though, is that they offer endgame content for everyone (including crafters & gatherers.)

So, no. I'm not worried about WoW's sub numbers as long as they continue to deliver content I enjoy doing. When they don't, I'll move on.

[Aoyi]

I think LFR has, in general, been a success. It wasn't meant to appeal to the hardcore raiding crowd. It was invisioned as the story mode style experience for those that just wanted to see the bosses and get ok gear. I think as long as the difficulty and gear aquired for downing a boss in the raid are consistent, then there is no problem in having LFR as an option. Normal mode and up continue to offer better rewards just as they should.

[Perkunas]

JT, my point is that there are literally THOUSANDS of reasons people are quitting. Tier gear not being in LFR isn't the primary one. It's not even a big reason.

Defensive Danny over here freaking out that somebody might try to take his toys away. I don't want them to. I want you to get the best gear in the game from LFR and it be the only real difficulty. I just want a game free of that attitude. A new game or a legacy realm where people actually want to devote time and effort into the game.

[Osmeric]

And the Wildstar fallacy.... Wildstar failed because it had a horrible launch, it was exteremely buggy, they didn't make good on any of the promises beyond "hard raiding", and they once again focused on the destination over the journey.

Didn't the Elder Scrolls MMO also have a very buggy launch? And yet here we are, with that MMO chugging along, and WildStar about to take the Big Sleep.

WildStar's #hardcore approach was utterly disastrous, and would have been so even without bugs.

When I first heard about WS, I thought "here are people using a comic-book like sensibility to go after a casual audience". Imagine my surprise when they decided to go #hardcore. And imagine my satisfaction as I watched hours played decline at a percentage rate 3 to 4 times faster than SWTOR had declined after its launch.

[Jtbrig7390]

JT, my point is that there are literally THOUSANDS of reasons people are quitting. Tier gear not being in LFR isn't the primary one. It's not even a big reason.

You can't sit there and say there is literally thousands of reasons and then claim X isn't a primary one or big one.

Like you said (and I have said) there is thousands of reasons.

I think blizzard should be able to cater to both playstyles (FFXIV does). Want challenge you got Mythic Raiding and Mythic+ dungeons. Want to be lax you got everything else.

The problem is the small few who get all pissy because someone in LFR got a recolored tier item. LFR gear should be less ilvl then NM+ and its fine that it is. I have accepted that my endgame is Mythic Dungeons/LFR and World Quests and as long as those things are fun ill accept that.

I do NOT want them to be target dummys like WOD. MOP LFR wasn't hard but provided enough challenge that you knew if you fucked up you could wipe. WOD Mythic Dungeons once again provide the same challenge.

Of course this changes when you hit X gear point but that's normal.