Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[maddnesskhaz]

Talent calc shows S&D at a 100% attack-speed increase compared to the current live version (40%).
S&D has been the cornerstone of our rotation since the dawn of time at 40%, how is 100% not completely gamebreaking overpowered?

Also, it was buffed so much in response to RtB being quite a significant DPS gain (with decent rolls). Following that they've caused other issues with energy regen due to such high attack speed.

[Mafic]

The current talent tree suffers the same problem as the initial MoP talent trees. Certain talent choices force you into other talent choices.

For example, if you are taking SnD you are going to need the extra energy to handle spikes from combat potency, so Vigor is a must.

Quickdraw looks weak on paper if you don't take Deeper Stratetegem or Anticipation. Swordmaster all but requires you take anticipation given the delay with the second saber slashes. Alacrity is a no go if you have taken Deeper Strategem. Ghostly Strike increases the damage of a few yellow attacks but not all yellow attacks. Does Ghostly Strike work with DFA? Even so if you choose Deeper Strategem with DFA you are doing less finishers which means less Greed procs no?

And how is a Slice and Dice build supposed to handle the health loss using Curse of the Dreadblades CD when it does not have access to Jolly Roger?

How is Acrobatic Strikes better than Hit and Run assuming you are not snared? And what the point of Acrobatic Strikes if you have access to Cannon Ball Barrage or Killing Spree and Pistol Shot? Why doesn't the marked for death with Deeper Strategem award six combo points?

Parley replaces Blind but it can't be used in combat and when not in combat you can quickly restealth for a sap instead?

Is Outlaw going to be based around white attacks or yellow attacks? If white attacks, wouldn't that favor SnD builds? So what is the point of Roll the Bones if they are going to make it a white damage spec? Most of the buffs from Roll the Bones put an emphasis on doing damage utilizing yellow attacks (CP generators or quicker finishers)?

[ribthanwa]

vigor is not a must in SND spec because energy is increased with haste. this is either accomplished with alacrity (going to stack fairly quickly with curse +lust), vigor, or higher levels of gear. notably, the increased attack speed is actually going to increase your main gauche proc rate, increasing your regen by a fair amount.

each of the tier 15 talents affects the gameplay in a fairly mundane way, but they do a good job of altering the entire feel of the rotation, without having too much bearing on throughput. it is also fine thatquickdraw has anti-synergy with vigor, as not all talent combinations need to be viable. swordmaster does not require you use anticipation, DS is plenty. it is almost guaranteed that the intention of ghostly strike is to affect all attacks, idk where you heard it didnt. DS works great with DFA and increases its value, and tbh, greed is probably on a rppm system, so using less finishers wont actually decrease its proc rate (much).

SnD spec still has crimson vial, which heals for more than curse will deal, problem solved. dont think you want recoup back.

acrobatic strikes does a great job at getting you slightly out of melee, helping you not stank in aoe pulses, or continuing damage in you get rooted. CBB and KS are cooldowns, neither of which suffice for full if you are forced away from a boss (for different reasons). being able to pistol shot from range is about as effective as throw spam is now. MfD has always just awarded 5cp, not full CP. i can see the possibility of them changing it, but currently, it is fine, and i dont see them making a change as a note, they did improve it since live, since RtB reduces its cd, effectively making it a 45sec cd base, etc. again, MfD is fine.

parley is dumb, youre right.

outlaw is about BOTH white and yellow hits. in all specs, however the degree of which can change significantly depending on your build. if you are not focusing on BOTH in ANY spec, you will be doing significantly suboptimal damage. I personally think SnD spec is boring as hell, and RtB will average out nicely over an entire fight, as im sure people will come to realize.

SIDE NOTE: dont hate on jolly rogers you guys! 3% a second with the possibility of being tacked onto other offensive buffs for upwards of a minute is a metric shit ton of healing. In ANY raiding level, being alive to deal any damage at all trumps dealing more dps and dying. yess, there are burst windows to hit, but yoy can easily prep appropriate RtB buffs to outlast most of those phases anyways, so you wont be worrying about hitting jolly roger during those phases, barring one or two bosses in the entire expanion. jeez people.

[Narokath]

vigor is not a must in SND spec because energy is increased with haste. this is either accomplished with alacrity (going to stack fairly quickly with curse +lust), vigor, or higher levels of gear. notably, the increased attack speed is actually going to increase your main gauche proc rate, increasing your regen by a fair amount.

each of the tier 15 talents affects the gameplay in a fairly mundane way, but they do a good job of altering the entire feel of the rotation, without having too much bearing on throughput. it is also fine thatquickdraw has anti-synergy with vigor, as not all talent combinations need to be viable. swordmaster does not require you use anticipation, DS is plenty. it is almost guaranteed that the intention of ghostly strike is to affect all attacks, idk where you heard it didnt. DS works great with DFA and increases its value, and tbh, greed is probably on a rppm system, so using less finishers wont actually decrease its proc rate (much).

SnD spec still has crimson vial, which heals for more than curse will deal, problem solved. dont think you want recoup back.

acrobatic strikes does a great job at getting you slightly out of melee, helping you not stank in aoe pulses, or continuing damage in you get rooted. CBB and KS are cooldowns, neither of which suffice for full if you are forced away from a boss (for different reasons). being able to pistol shot from range is about as effective as throw spam is now. MfD has always just awarded 5cp, not full CP. i can see the possibility of them changing it, but currently, it is fine, and i dont see them making a change as a note, they did improve it since live, since RtB reduces its cd, effectively making it a 45sec cd base, etc. again, MfD is fine.

parley is dumb, youre right.

outlaw is about BOTH white and yellow hits. in all specs, however the degree of which can change significantly depending on your build. if you are not focusing on BOTH in ANY spec, you will be doing significantly suboptimal damage. I personally think SnD spec is boring as hell, and RtB will average out nicely over an entire fight, as im sure people will come to realize.

SIDE NOTE: dont hate on jolly rogers you guys! 3% a second with the possibility of being tacked onto other offensive buffs for upwards of a minute is a metric shit ton of healing. In ANY raiding level, being alive to deal any damage at all trumps dealing more dps and dying. yess, there are burst windows to hit, but yoy can easily prep appropriate RtB buffs to outlast most of those phases anyways, so you wont be worrying about hitting jolly roger during those phases, barring one or two bosses in the entire expanion. jeez people.

It's in my best interest not to dissuade new posters to this forum, but I'm fairly passionate about Outlaw's current state or lack thereof so I'm going to just point out a few things.

Vigor essentially is critical to Outlaw's success because of the very frequent points that the specialization spills over or bleeds on Energy. This has less to do with the amount of Base Energy regeneration that you gain but more to do with having a larger buffer to deal with these situations. So while you do point out a myriad of ways to 'gain energy', you've overlooked the main reason why Vigor is more utilized for the current Outlaw mechanics.

Talking about the mundane nature of the Level 15 Talents and then contradicting yourself by saying that they do a good job of altering the feel of the rotation is not a great start either. Unless this is a very meta way of indicating to us all that you believe that building on the mundane is mundane.

A lot of it is a jumbled mess but I'll endure; There's a lot of debate on DS vs Anti vs Vig and I'm not going to go into why. As for Curse being countered by Crimson vial, the only other heal that Outlaw has is an inconsistent Buff from Roll the Bones. Assassination has Leeching Poison and Crimson Vial without Curse to Deal with.

Acrobatic Strikes is redundant, we're gone from the days of hovering in dead zones because they don't exist anymore. So in PvP it's fairly useless. In PvE it has it's utility but in most cases you're not going to find the sweet spot encounter by encounter for a number of reasons.

Yes, Outlaw is both white and yellow hits, but this isn't the live iteration anymore, it's mostly the ability damage from your parses. Your auto attacks actually don't do much anymore. I really don't want to go into RtB again on this forum, but you clearly haven't looked at it practically, and that's evident in referring to it "averaging out".

I have no words for your Jolly Roger comments. "Prepare for appropriate RtB Buffs", triggered.

[ribthanwa]

It's in my best interest not to dissuade new posters to this forum, but I'm fairly passionate about Outlaw's current state or lack thereof so I'm going to just point out a few things.

Vigor essentially is critical to Outlaw's success because of the very frequent points that the specialization spills over or bleeds on Energy. This has less to do with the amount of Base Energy regeneration that you gain but more to do with having a larger buffer to deal with these situations. So while you do point out a myriad of ways to 'gain energy', you've overlooked the main reason why Vigor is more utilized for the current Outlaw mechanics.

Talking about the mundane nature of the Level 15 Talents and then contradicting yourself by saying that they do a good job of altering the feel of the rotation is not a great start either. Unless this is a very meta way of indicating to us all that you believe that building on the mundane is mundane.

A lot of it is a jumbled mess but I'll endure; There's a lot of debate on DS vs Anti vs Vig and I'm not going to go into why. As for Curse being countered by Crimson vial, the only other heal that Outlaw has is an inconsistent Buff from Roll the Bones. Assassination has Leeching Poison and Crimson Vial without Curse to Deal with.

Acrobatic Strikes is redundant, we're gone from the days of hovering in dead zones because they don't exist anymore. So in PvP it's fairly useless. In PvE it has it's utility but in most cases you're not going to find the sweet spot encounter by encounter for a number of reasons.

Yes, Outlaw is both white and yellow hits, but this isn't the live iteration anymore, it's mostly the ability damage from your parses. Your auto attacks actually don't do much anymore. I really don't want to go into RtB again on this forum, but you clearly haven't looked at it practically, and that's evident in referring to it "averaging out".

I have no words for your Jolly Roger comments. "Prepare for appropriate RtB Buffs", triggered.

Oh please. Like I care about the fact that I made this account to reasonably answer someone else's questions and how that threatens your supposed dick measuring contest that you are operating here. Hint, I dont. I'm a mythic raider, I have been maining rogue in mythic raids for two expansions now, and you clearly have no idea what youre talking about.

A lot of people testing out rogues today dont actually play energy classes. They expect (and apparently you do, too) that since we are "fast" that we will be GCD locked. Youre an idiot if you expect anything close to this. That would completely invalidate energy as a mechanic. The only time you should be GCD capped is during AR, and that is even sometimes not true. If you played a rogue, say, ever, you would know this. Sure, you may see this as not responding to your "energy fluctuation" point, but Outlaw uses less energy than live, and generates more. Combat generates enough energy on live, so I dont see why Outlaw wouldnt. Stop expecting gcd capping, it isnt how rogues play, nor should it be.

The reason I used the word "mundane" was to describe the effect of each talent. I have no idea how you couldnt figure that much out and decided to be salty about that one word. If you actually tested or observed outlaw in any form, you would know how much those mundane effects can alter the underlying feel of the rotation, a great talent tier.

If you ever raided as a mut rogue ever, you would know leeching poison is shit. Sure, it is buffed to 12% with master of poisons, but that talent is undertuned currently, so no one will use it. As I posted originally, the only rogue self healing is currently m'fucking recouperate, and outlaw gets the following: healing from run through (proc), healing from cloak, healing from crimson vial (which is an amazing heal) and jolly roger (again, extremely potent). In what way is that "not enough" to deal with thr net like 20% max health damage you will take from using curse?

My arguement for acrobating strikes was not that it was better than into the fray, because it isnt. However, if you raided tyrant or the stone boss from BRF, you would begin to fathom the mysteries that is acrobatic strikes. It is most definitely not redundant.

I have no need to try and persuade you that RtB is actually fine. Its fine for me, and its not fine for you. Take SnD and stop being obtuse.

Finally, let me reiterate. This is not the game, experience here means nothing, it's a forum, with no membership requirements. For you to think me invalid on my lack of posts is hilarious, and makes you just sound like an ass. If anything, I am more validated than you because I cared enough to make this stupid account to try and answer the questions of a poster who was actually trying to understand the spec. Sorry for caring, you may begin you tirade now about how I insulted you now. Cya.

[Mafic]

Blizz said they changed Jolly Roger to work better with Curse of Dreadblades. Meaning the spec is designed to work with Greed procs (HP heal), and Jolly Roger (HP HoT)to mitigate somewhat the HP loss during Curse of Dreadblades CD usage. I think this severely punishes builds that use SnD over Roll the Bones but that is my opinion.

As for Deeper Strategem, Anticipation, and Vigor...that will depend on many factors. True bearing fishing is going to mainly determine which one is the best in the long run. While DFA, Deeper Strategem, and True Beearing looks fun for dungeons, questing and PVP not sure if it will hold up for PVE play like raiding. Vigor is probably the obvious choice with Anticipation a close second.

Ghostly Strike I am intrigued with, but early testing suggested that it only works for a select few yellow attacks but not all yellow attacks (eg Run Through). I think they did that on purpose so players are not forced to take it to boost Run through but I think this is a mistake.

Acrobatic Strikes is not that good when you consider that Outlaw has a ranged CP builder, ranged finisher (Between the Eyes), ranged AoE (Cannon Ball Barrage) or Killing Spree. Avoiding damage puddles is better done using Cloak (Especially with the recent buffs to Outlaw's Ghostly Shell)/Feint as a Rogue to be honest. Acrobatic Strikes is a nice concept on paper but it doesn't really work in practice.

I am not opposed to Acrobatic Strikes, but it needs some serous buffs along with Hit and Run as they are very ordinary and don't change gameplay enough to consider them "talents". Grappling Hook on the other hand is a game changer as a talent.

[Narokath]

Oh please. Like I care about the fact that I made this account to reasonably answer someone else's questions and how that threatens your supposed dick measuring contest that you are operating here. Hint, I dont. I'm a mythic raider, I have been maining rogue in mythic raids for two expansions now, and you clearly have no idea what youre talking about.

Who's measuring whos dick here? I'll go ahead and bold the other times you got out a ruler too. Clearly I don't have any idea what I'm talking about; http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...06238?page=1#2 That's me.

A lot of people testing out rogues today dont actually play energy classes. They expect (and apparently you do, too) that since we are "fast" that we will be GCD locked. Youre an idiot if you expect anything close to this. That would completely invalidate energy as a mechanic. The only time you should be GCD capped is during AR, and that is even sometimes not true. If you played a rogue, say, ever, you would know this. Sure, you may see this as not responding to your "energy fluctuation" point, but Outlaw uses less energy than live, and generates more. Combat generates enough energy on live, so I dont see why Outlaw wouldnt. Stop expecting gcd capping, it isnt how rogues play, nor should it be.

I didn't even mention the abbreviation "GCD" once in my response to this thread. I referred to Energy Bleeding, aka, energy being lost because it spills over the cap and can't be used fast enough. You ARE aware that when this does happen, we are in a position where using an ability every GCD is common place right? And when you still can't spend energy fast enough, in those circumstances, it does invalidate energy in these predicaments.
Not having Venom Rush or the Energy Glyph in Outlaw create no buffer for Energy, so while we may spend a very insignificant amount less Energy, with the changes to Combat Potency and what RtB/SnD currently offer; You're going to be in this Energy Bleeding predicament quite frequently to a degree where using Pistol Shot is completely avoided in the rotation because we are forced to use our GCD on something that hits harder and consumes energy. When you say "Outlaw uses less energy than live, and generates more", that is literally you supporting my claim and feedback, and contradicting your own.

The reason I used the word "mundane" was to describe the effect of each talent. I have no idea how you couldnt figure that much out and decided to be salty about that one word. If you actually tested or observed outlaw in any form, you would know how much those mundane effects can alter the underlying feel of the rotation, a great talent tier.

Not salty at all, perplexed by your original statement really. When you refer to each of the talents affecting the gameplay in a mundane way, then you're referring to them being uninteresting or dull and then complimenting the way they change the feel of the rotation just seems a little strange to call them mundane in the first place. I like the tier too, for a first row, before you go ahead and misinterpret what I'm saying again.

If you ever raided as a mut rogue ever, you would know leeching poison is shit. Sure, it is buffed to 12% with master of poisons, but that talent is undertuned currently, so no one will use it. As I posted originally, the only rogue self healing is currently m'fucking recouperate, and outlaw gets the following: healing from run through (proc), healing from cloak, healing from crimson vial (which is an amazing heal) and jolly roger (again, extremely potent). In what way is that "not enough" to deal with thr net like 20% max health damage you will take from using curse?

I never said Leeching Poison was good, but at least it's consistent much like Crimson Vial is, it needs a % health modifier instead of a % attack modifier. The entire point I was trying to make is that Outlaw is the only specialization with an actual negative effect attached to their artifact and that using abilities to cater to health loss is not very intuitive. In Scenarios like Gorefiend where the damage is quite severe during Feast but you're going to get the best out of a cooldown, we're a detriment to the raid's success when we're forced to forgo using a clear DPS increase just because we're going to take 20-25% of our maximum health in damage. And the inconsistent Jolly Roger isn't even available when spec'd into SnD, and a Greed proc on Single Target offsets a small portion of the Curse health loss.

My arguement for acrobating strikes was not that it was better than into the fray, because it isnt. However, if you raided tyrant or the stone boss from BRF, you would begin to fathom the mysteries that is acrobatic strikes. It is most definitely not redundant.

I have no need to try and persuade you that RtB is actually fine. Its fine for me, and its not fine for you. Take SnD and stop being obtuse.

I never said you were claiming that something is better than Into the Fray. When we have abilities like Pistol Shot, Run Through, Cannonball Barrage and Killing Spree which make Acrobatic Strikes redundant, I am fairly confident in claiming it as redundant. A fight like Tyrant, where in Phase 1, you do the 1-2-Step to minimize movement, it has some merits but you should have plenty of room and when thought about practically and hence, redundant.

RTB: You're fine with having a 1.5% chance to get 6 buffs? You're fine with having a 10% chance to get Jolly Roger as a single buff? Thinking that's fine is the most obtuse thing I can fathom right now, especially for a mythic rogue (oops).

Finally, let me reiterate. This is not the game, experience here means nothing, it's a forum, with no membership requirements. For you to think me invalid on my lack of posts is hilarious, and makes you just sound like an ass. If anything, I am more validated than you because I cared enough to make this stupid account to try and answer the questions of a poster who was actually trying to understand the spec. Sorry for caring, you may begin you tirade now about how I insulted you now. Cya.

Yes, please do reiterate. Clearly you have shown me here that experience means nothing, by bringing up a painted picture of how you're a mythic raider and that you've done such amazing content such as Kromog in BRF, or Tyrant Velhari in HFC and a number of other insecurities. I never commented on your lack of posts as being some limit on you being here, but rather not to dissuade you from commenting when I believe that your opinions are misinformed, which you clearly are. You're more validated because you created an account? "Experience here means nothing, it's a forum". And what of the other people here commenting with thousands of posts? Are you more validated then them because you came here with the sole purpose of crafting an opinion? If you had 40000 posts and commented with the same jumbled up unstructured mess of a post and dictated your opinions to the masses, I'd still comment in the same way, albeit leaving out my efforts not to dissuade you. See you next tier.

[MiZeRoK]

So Roll the Bones is an annoying skill but feels much too important to the concept of the class to not play with. From the hours I have on Beta it seems the worst part of the ability is when you only get 1 buff and that one buff isn't something that makes sense during the combat phase (eg. +NRG Regen during Adrenaline Rush).

So what happens if the ability is changed so that it's impossible to only get 1 buff?

[Deleted]

It won't be changed, maybe when Blizzard sees that it is to random, but then again, they will see lucky rogues topping meters ... "So whats your problem, you can do so much dmg, I don't get it" - Blizzard September 2016

I lost all hope of changing anything other then numbers, some ppl had so cool ideas how to change things for the better, but no. Blizzard is Blizzard and when you go against a blizzard you will end up frozen to death, or in this case disappointed to the bones

[Rikhart]

You know, roll the bones could have a really good and easy fix, and still retain the RNG factor.

WHAT IF there was an ability that spent combo points to extend a given roll you are happy with?

[Roiids]

Yeah when you use RTB and get just Jolly Roger its fine questing but will be really frustrating in a raid environment. Also when you get the 1 buff that lowers your cooldowns when you use finishers feels horrible to get by itself. Because you don't hit for crap and your energy regen is so slow so you basically spend 2-3 combo points to reuse RTB to get something better. But good god when the RNG gods shine and you get max buffs.... you go APE SHIT on stuff and i'm sure will top meters. Basically I compare RTB to how WOD fury warrior was.... pray to the RNG gods and hope for good RNG otherwise your dps will not be very good compared to the next fight you get lucky and go insane.

[Wow]

Yeah when you use RTB and get just Jolly Roger its fine questing but will be really frustrating in a raid environment. Also when you get the 1 buff that lowers your cooldowns when you use finishers feels horrible to get by itself. Because you don't hit for crap and your energy regen is so slow so you basically spend 2-3 combo points to reuse RTB to get something better. But good god when the RNG gods shine and you get max buffs.... you go APE SHIT on stuff and i'm sure will top meters. Basically I compare RTB to how WOD fury warrior was.... pray to the RNG gods and hope for good RNG otherwise your dps will not be very good compared to the next fight you get lucky and go insane.

I don't really think jolly roger fine even if you're questing unless you are dying then it seem to never roll it when you need it lol.

[Vojka]

Hello, seeing as to me warrior seems pretty bland I decided to check out Outlaw and to me it seems pretty fun (I haven't played rogue much so I have nothing to compare it to besides warrior, but I have always really enjoyed the swashbuckling fantasy).

How is Outlaw looking for pvp? I heard sub is stronger at the moment and of course it is beta so anything can happen especially during the final tuning passes, when I did a couple BGs didn't seem too bad, keeping feint up while doing everything else is pretty intense for me and my pleb warrior brain, just want some opinions from you seasoned rogues. For legion just focusing on casual bgs and 2v2

[Narokath]

Hello, seeing as to me warrior seems pretty bland I decided to check out Outlaw and to me it seems pretty fun (I haven't played rogue much so I have nothing to compare it to besides warrior, but I have always really enjoyed the swashbuckling fantasy).

How is Outlaw looking for pvp? I heard sub is stronger at the moment and of course it is beta so anything can happen especially during the final tuning passes, when I did a couple BGs didn't seem too bad, keeping feint up while doing everything else is pretty intense for me and my pleb warrior brain, just want some opinions from you seasoned rogues. For legion just focusing on casual bgs and 2v2

Outlaw for PvP is looking... interesting. There's a great divide when it comes to Roll the Bones in PvP versus PvE. Jolly Roger (One of the buffs you can potentially get from RtB) is actually insanely strong in PvP and creates a poignant feeling in the opposing player; by effectively doubling your health over 34 seconds. The problem is it's inconsistent, which can be interesting if there weren't chances in the mechanic that you didn't have to even think about it. Besides that, Outlaw has some of the most notable crowd control for the class. So they are seemingly becoming Control Tanks.

Subtlety is strong in PvP purely because it has a lot of on-demand damage that is quite large. You don't have the same crowd control capability as Outlaw but you have the sticking power that makes you almost unshakeable for mostly all specializations.

My personal opinion is that I will probably have the most fun playing Subtlety in Battlegrounds, assuming that Duels or Skirmishes aren't designed to be wars of attrition with the extremely high health pools.

[Vojka]

Outlaw for PvP is looking... interesting. There's a great divide when it comes to Roll the Bones in PvP versus PvE. Jolly Roger (One of the buffs you can potentially get from RtB) is actually insanely strong in PvP and creates a poignant feeling in the opposing player; by effectively doubling your health over 34 seconds. The problem is it's inconsistent, which can be interesting if there weren't chances in the mechanic that you didn't have to even think about it. Besides that, Outlaw has some of the most notable crowd control for the class. So they are seemingly becoming Control Tanks.

Subtlety is strong in PvP purely because it has a lot of on-demand damage that is quite large. You don't have the same crowd control capability as Outlaw but you have the sticking power that makes you almost unshakeable for mostly all specializations.

My personal opinion is that I will probably have the most fun playing Subtlety in Battlegrounds, assuming that Duels or Skirmishes aren't designed to be wars of attrition with the extremely high health pools.

I see, so far I am really liking using quick draw and deeper stratagem, when I get that roll the bones proc that gives me extra cp per generator I can ramp up some really meaty finishers, seems pretty cool on paper but isn't vigor the better choice? Still playing around with all this shit haha. Thanks for your input, by the way.

[Deleted]

I see, so far I am really liking using quick draw and deeper stratagem, when I get that roll the bones proc that gives me extra cp per generator I can ramp up some really meaty finishers, seems pretty cool on paper but isn't vigor the better choice? Still playing around with all this shit haha. Thanks for your input, by the way.

The "on paper" thing depends hardly on the tuning and that is not done, so we still have to see ... damn I really need a beta account. I wanna test things and give suggestions / flame to blizzard xD (pretty sure they will do nothing but tuning by now, but my hope dies last ...).

[ribthanwa]

The "on paper" thing depends hardly on the tuning and that is not done, so we still have to see ... damn I really need a beta account. I wanna test things and give suggestions / flame to blizzard xD (pretty sure they will do nothing but tuning by now, but my hope dies last ...).

Yeah, at least for outlaw, Id expect only tuning changes moving forward.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Pardon if this has been discussed but I confess I did not read all 56 pages of this thread. :P

I am looking at a build for Legion. I'm seeing Dirty Tricks gives you Cheap Shot for zero energy? Instant, with no CD listed?
Also Goremaw's Bite and Kingsbane are instant with no energy cost? What's to keep us from spamming any of these?

- - - Updated - - -

ROFL at Bribe.

Bribes a non-player humanoid target up to level 55 with fool's gold, convincing it to fight for you for 5 min.

Seriously? For an expansion where we're 110? How cruel is that?

"Come on George, 'tis the hour to do ye part against th' Legion!"
"Gee Captain Roger do you really think I'm ready?"
"Yarr George - as ready as ye'll never be."

[Skayaq]

Pardon if this has been discussed but I confess I did not read all 56 pages of this thread. :P

I am looking at a build for Legion. I'm seeing Dirty Tricks gives you Cheap Shot for zero energy? Instant, with no CD listed?
Also Goremaw's Bite and Kingsbane are instant with no energy cost? What's to keep us from spamming any of these?

- - - Updated - - -

ROFL at Bribe.

Bribes a non-player humanoid target up to level 55 with fool's gold, convincing it to fight for you for 5 min.

Seriously? For an expansion where we're 110? How cruel is that?

"Come on George, 'tis the hour to do ye part against th' Legion!"
"Gee Captain Roger do you really think I'm ready?"
"Yarr George - as ready as ye'll never be."

The bribe thing is a bad datamine, it should work an playerlevel+1

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

The bribe thing is a bad datamine, it should work an playerlevel+1

lol ok. George will be quite relieved.