Queue: "If I can't click 1 button, I won't participate"

[Jaylock]

Ha, Funny guy, 719 ilvl 2 piece tier and a 765 legendary ring is under geared for what exactly? Pray do tell, in your oh so omnipotent opinion? because I would like to know...
- Undergeared for Mythic 5 mans?? No because they can be done @ 665 and my ilvl exceeds that..
- Undergeared for Normal HM/BrF or HFC? no because they can be done at 630, 640 and 675...
- Undergeared for Heroic HM/BrF or HFC? No, because they can be done at 640, 650 and 695...

So, while I have no idea whether or not you are mentally incapacitated, I myself am struggling to understand what the fuck you're getting at? I stated before I'm not crying, and certainly not playing the "victim" but, if you derive some small pleasure from believing that don't let me stop you.

P.S. I've also never stated that any of the above content should be added to auto-queues, I just said I prefer to do the content that is auto-queued over trying to avoid guilds and, or groups with asshats in them.

I'll go back to LFR now, I've been to MMO-C and now I know my place in the world. /s

I apologize for my attitude and tone. I was speaking really in a general sense and not trying to direct anything personally toward you (although I know I used "you" language in that last post you quoted).

ilvl 719 is perfectly acceptable to join groups for Normal and Heroic HFC. I don't question that. But if you keep getting declined at that item level, then you have to ask yourself the question of: Why? Why am I getting declined at a 719 item level? Speaking if I was in your shoes:

Could it be because I still dont have my 4 piece set at ilvl 719? (because the mere having 4 piece gives most classes a 10-20k instant dps increase)

Could it be because the group I am applying to is looking for a higher item level?

Could it be because the group creator checked my armory and looked at my raid history on that toon and I little to no heroic HFC kills?

Could it be because I am not saying the right things in my note to be invited?

There are a number of reasons why a group leader wont accept players. The main of which is there are probably other people applying to the group whos item level are 10 levels higher than you. Again, if you were the raid leader, and 2 ret paladins applied to your run, and one was ilvl 719 and the other was 729, which would YOU choose? It doesn't matter if the 719 player has mythic 13/13 raid experience. What matters is, on first looking, only having ilvl to go off of, the likelihood of the 729 player performing better is higher than the 719 player.

So, how do you combat this? Look for groups whos requirements are lower. Create a group yourself and invite people of similar item level (although you would be more likely to invite any players whos item level was higher than your requirement). Join a social guild who casually raids and if they are starting a raid while you are on, ask to go.

The point is, the game has changed dramatically since the days of having to look in trade chat to find a group. There are so many other avenues of forming groups (not using the matchmaking queue) today than there was then. The implementation of CRZ, Cross Realm Servers, Battlegroups, Group Finder Tool... all of these together are powerful to allow players to form groups in relatively a small amount of time.

Even when im wanting to join a 5 man mythic dungeon in the group finder tool, i can get into runs within 5 minutes at a sub 700 ilvl. I just have to look for groups whos requirement is lower as well because I know groups that are looking for 720+ im not going to get into those.

[SteveRocks]

Im genuinely curious about this mentality. The whole: "If a queue is not available for me, I won't participate"...

Why even play an MMO if that is the type of game you want?

I don't understand how people have a desire to play WoW or any other MMO, but don't want to interact with other players to get stuff done in the game, or to participate in content in a game. Wasn't the whole premise of an MMO that you were going to be expected to interact with other players to play the game optimally, as the genre (MMO) suggests?

I'd argue that the whole game doesn't have to be Queueable. The game can still be plenty accessible to all types of players with parts of it not available to be queued into.

People who have this mentality, please help me understand why you feel this way? Why does the game have to revolve around your wants and desires of it being a complete queue fest?

People who don't feel this way, what is your argument for having all types of content, specifically content that is unable to be queued for?

When have you ever seen this mentality? I'm genuinely curious. I have never heard of someone refusing to participate in the game or a portion of the game because they couldn't "queue into," something....

[HuxNeva]

They put determination in lfr in hopes that the endless cycle of leave-refill will actually lead somewhere.

Instead it led to the bulk of the community never learning anything about a fight, AFK'ing trough it while playing Heartstone on their iPad, and just waiting for the determination to build up high enough that the 5 people that care can down the boss so they can loot.

- - - Updated - - -

Ha, Funny guy, 719 ilvl 2 piece tier and a 765 legendary ring is under geared for what exactly? Pray do tell, in your oh so omnipotent opinion? because I would like to know...
- Undergeared for Mythic 5 mans?? No because they can be done @ 665 and my ilvl exceeds that..
- Undergeared for Normal HM/BrF or HFC? no because they can be done at 630, 640 and 675...
- Undergeared for Heroic HM/BrF or HFC? No, because they can be done at 640, 650 and 695...

So, while I have no idea whether or not you are mentally incapacitated, I myself am struggling to understand what the fuck you're getting at? I stated before I'm not crying, and certainly not playing the "victim" but, if you derive some small pleasure from believing that don't let me stop you.

P.S. I've also never stated that any of the above content should be added to auto-queues, I just said I prefer to do the content that is auto-queued over trying to avoid guilds and, or groups with asshats in them.

I'll go back to LFR now, I've been to MMO-C and now I know my place in the world. /s

Sadly it doesn't matter whether you are geared enough for the content. You need to be geared better than the others in the queue at that time. It is a system biased to the rich getting richer, if you already have high ilvl then you get higher chances of being picked and thus getting even higher ilvl, increasing your chances even more etc. . . That is what I tried to mitigate with the proposal in this tread http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...r-improvements

[Blyght]

-Snipped- .

No offense Jay (sinceriously), but I far from need a lesson in how to better get into pugs or guilds, but I thank you anyway for taking the time to point it out, even if your effort was wasted. (Oh, and that alt of mine is missing a neck enchant, silly me )

[Zeek Daniels]

i would rather run with a guild group than a bunch of randoms. Atleast then i can talk to people during the dungeon.

[Leviatharan]

I think a lot of people forget what it was like in Vanilla, BC and early Wrath. If you weren't on a Highpop Server (most of us weren't considering the game flings low pop servers in your face, and there weren't heirlooms or alt boosting mechanics to start on a new server fresh) you were screwed without a guild.

My favorite memories are of people dropping group seconds after being invited because we didn't have a summon waiting for them.

Believe it or not, queuing doesn't really impact that attitude.

[judgementofantonidas]

I'd say you're the one lacking comprehension.

The average itemlevels/lowest itemlevels needed are skewed from run sellers, who at this point would be the vast majority of heroic archimonde kills.

There are no ilvl 545 alts killing archimonde. There are naked players bringing the average itemlevel of kills down.

The minimum average item level required to beat this boss is 545.2. required. by the designers. not the skewed value of carry players.

- - - Updated - - -

i would rather run with a guild group than a bunch of randoms. Atleast then i can talk to people during the dungeon.

even if you do not agree with your guild members at times it eventually works itself out one way or another. far preferable to the alternative of always ending up with some scrub who has no intention of pulling their weight.

[Pull My Finger]

Call it whining or crying, but that just shows how dense you are. You're the type of person we actively avoid having to play with, honestly.

Dito. I don't want to crack jokes with you and know your kids. You guys are such a jolly bunch, it's real obvious by the ridiculously presumptious and disparaging attitude you have towards people you basically have absolutely nothing to do with. There's a reason people prefer inclusive and impartial dungeon finder queues over putting up with and pandering to jerks.

[mhdoe]

After 11 years of both having to form groups or que once it was introduced I really do not care. If the content is good I will do what ever is available. If I am logged in with friends then we will group if not I will que. Just like mythic's on live I either go with friends or look for a group in group finder. The eye roll moments I have is when the groups start requiring gear or levels that are far beyond what they are running like back in Wrath when people started looking at gear score.

[Eleccybubb]

After 11 years of both having to form groups or que once it was introduced I really do not care. If the content is good I will do what ever is available. If I am logged in with friends then we will group if not I will que. Just like mythic's on live I either go with friends or look for a group in group finder. The eye roll moments I have is when the groups start requiring gear or levels that are far beyond what they are running like back in Wrath when people started looking at gear score.

This. Gearscore only used to piss me off when people asked for 5k for VOA when Toravon was the easiest fight in existence. I remember a lot of groups taking me and helping me gear up when I was about 3.9k through Ulduar/TotC. I did queue for Wrath HC's as well to help me with the occasional bit of gearing and Triumph/Frost emblems.

[Pull My Finger]

Awesome! I don't have to worry about running into your emotional "I wanna play alone" attitude. Stay in your little corner of the MMO, buddy. Nothing of value is lost. I'm sure nobody wants to have fun with you either. You sound real peachy.

Screw your crap talk. I never said that I wanted to play alone. I just don't want to play with your obnoxios type. Always the biggest jerks in the game since day one. Nobody can stand you, that's why the dungeon finder was such a phenomenal success in the first place. Continue to live in your bullshit bubble.

[Jerichofr]

After 11 years of both having to form groups or que once it was introduced I really do not care. If the content is good I will do what ever is available. If I am logged in with friends then we will group if not I will que. Just like mythic's on live I either go with friends or look for a group in group finder. The eye roll moments I have is when the groups start requiring gear or levels that are far beyond what they are running like back in Wrath when people started looking at gear score.

That is basically my stance (minus the Group Finder, I think that thing is poisonous.) If my friends or guild mates are on, I'll do stuff with them, if not, I'll do queue-able content. I just don't find it worth my time to try to kiss up to someone to get an invite to their group. But, beyond that, I prefer to do stuff with the people I know.

[Eleccybubb]

That is basically my stance (minus the Group Finder, I think that thing is poisonous.) If my friends or guild mates are on, I'll do stuff with them, if not, I'll do queue-able content. I just don't find it worth my time to try to kiss up to someone to get an invite to their group. But, beyond that, I prefer to do stuff with the people I know.

I don't mind group finder personally. It's there if I want to make/join a group and if people set obnoxiously high requirements then I can just make my own or look for a different one. Never felt I've had to "kiss up" to someone though if they ask for achi and ilvl I'll tell them it of course.

[Zoneseek]

I don't want to spend my gaming time forming groups. I never spent any mmo time making groups prior to vanilla wow, and never have again post-vanilla. Nor will I ever again. It's not how I enjoy spending my leisure time.

I don't really get what people see enjoyable about it or what it has to do with being a MMO. Played UO from 1997-2001, played DAOC/Neocron from 2001-2004 and never in those 7 years did I need to stand around in a town looking for a group or helping form one.

[Jerichofr]

I don't mind group finder personally. It's there if I want to make/join a group and if people set obnoxiously high requirements then I can just make my own or look for a different one. Never felt I've had to "kiss up" to someone though if they ask for achi and ilvl I'll tell them it of course.

YMMV, I suppose. I've never had a good experience with the GF (except on those auto-invite Kazzak groups, but I'm one of those people that won't even look for a Kaz group until I'm standing in front of him on my own server.)

I (and others) had the same issues with oQueue back in the day (had issues with its author too, but I won't go there.)

I just don't believe that any system that puts the control of content into the hands of players can be a good thing for anyone that isn't already one of the "have's". I've played MMOs for over a decade, and I prefer the way it is now to any time back then, as far as group content is concerned.

[Advent]

Even back during TBC I didn't make any friends by manually forming groups. And those took upwards of 45 minutes to an hour or more some days, especially weekends. A lot of us don't have friends; making them is something that takes a lot of time and energy that some of us just don't have. Personally, the queue system saved my enjoyment of the game at a time when I was just tired of people not being around when *I* wanted to play. The odds of "friends" or whatever you want to call them, being on when YOU feel like playing are astronomical, particularly if the times you wish to play vary from day to day, or week to week. Not everyone wants to be in the game at the same time, every day, all the time. Syncing up these times is exhausting, truly.

[Mesoforte]

This is my Hunter; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Treijin/simple

Doesn't matter what time, day or night, when I try to pug raids or mythic dungeons I spend more time looking for a group and getting declined than actually playing the game. Examples include but not limited to; ilvl not high enough, No high level carry to bring with me, rolling on "others" tier (or reserved items), didn't get my AotC or similar when content was "hard", haven't fully cleared content etc, etc...

While you and many others spout the obnoxious and over used trope "create your own group you lazy casual whiners!", know that some people were born to lead and others were born to follow. I can carry out the role of a hunter/DPS just fine and enjoy a challenge. What I'm not good at is ensuring the other X amount of players are also doing what they should be, taking care of logistics involved with raiding and generally hand holding others through content.

TL;DR: Queuing allows me to avoid silly crap like @Jerichofr mentioned, more time playing and less searching for desirable groups. I still play with friends from time to time though.

Just going to say, you'd get invited if our raid team was looking for DPS that night, and you weren't EU. You're gear is good enough for heroic, and you're only missing 4-set. However, our group doesn't reserve gear, so we have less of an issue inviting anybody.

[Tadkins]

I really don't get the issue with queue systems. The people queuing for whatever they want to do are simply getting computerized help connecting them with others who have common goals.

Before queue systems, say you wanted to run Deadmines. You could have two people who want to run in Westfall, one in Redridge, one in Darkshore, one hanging out in Stormwind. All of them would be interested, but you'd have no real way of knowing that without whispering each individual person on the server. LFG would simply put all five of these people together, who otherwise would never meet and run the dungeon.

You're kidding yourself if you think the loss of LFD would foster "community" and bring back manual dungeon-forming groups. Even as early as Vanilla, if people wanted to run low level dungeons, they'd just bug their high level friends to run them through. That's what the low level dungeons would be reduced to these days without LFD.

Even back during TBC I didn't make any friends by manually forming groups. And those took upwards of 45 minutes to an hour or more some days, especially weekends. A lot of us don't have friends; making them is something that takes a lot of time and energy that some of us just don't have. Personally, the queue system saved my enjoyment of the game at a time when I was just tired of people not being around when *I* wanted to play. The odds of "friends" or whatever you want to call them, being on when YOU feel like playing are astronomical, particularly if the times you wish to play vary from day to day, or week to week. Not everyone wants to be in the game at the same time, every day, all the time. Syncing up these times is exhausting, truly.

Agreed. Some people have this idea that without queue systems, every group formed means forging deep lifelong bonds of friendship with everyone. That was never the case.

[Jerichofr]

I feel like anyone who responds with, "I don't feel like being judged." or "So I don't have to suck up to you." are probably the really bad players. I've never had to suck up to earn a spot in a group. Those are excuses that I feel are derived from being a bad player. Good players don't have to suck up to anyone. If you can't take the heat, you probably should get out of the kitchen. Good riddance!

Or, those that feel they are Elune's gift to Azeroth (like yourself), and think that they are gods among men, looking down their nose at everyone "beneath them" should get out of the kitchen and go find a kitchen more suited to their type of attitude. Good riddance!

[Jerichofr]

Cry me a river, kid. You obviously were scarred by someone other than me and now you make broad generalizations of people you know absolutely nothing about. The World of Warcraft is better off with you sulking in the guildless corner of the game, anyway. Happy trails.

You're proving what kind of person you are with all of your posts. No generalization needed.