No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Honeyprime]

I'm okay with Pathfinder myself. I'm even okay with waiting until the end of the expansion (I just hope I don't have to) and I'm very pro flying.

With that being said, I'm very confused with the argument "You skip content with flying and miss out on the world Blizzard made!". How can I be "skipping content" when I can't fly while leveling? And I experience the wonderful and rich world Blizzard made while I'm leveling? I never really got an answer to my question in the other thread, they just kept screaming about skipping content.

And for those who continue to scream "It's only for convenience and just a mode of transportation!" you're are completely, totally wrong and look like a fool in my eyes. I have always, always been a huge fan of mythical flying dragons ever since I was a kid. When Blizzard put in the Netherwing Questline and Dailies I was ecstatic. I did the grind (on multiple characters btw) and my main befriended the Onyx Netherwing Drake. I have collected over 200 mounts and she still rides that drake to this day. Being able to free and befriend that drake and fly with him on my adventures really added to my immersion and experience within WoW. You know, fantasy in a fantasy game?

So no, flying only being a "convenience and mode of transportion" is completely way off the mark when it comes to why I personally want to keep my flying.

I was upset with Blizzard in regards to WoD. I really did end up feeling strung along. First it was "Epic Questline" in 6.1, then it was all the other comments they made after that, then it was "no more flying ever again". Then within two weeks they reversed their decision and introduced Pathfinder. I have to say, so far, they have been doing a lot better with Legion. They have not scrapped nearly as much as they did in WoD and Legion Pathfinder, so far, looks okay to me. I am regaining some of my confidence in them, but I am still a bit leary after the mess that happened with WoD.

[SirCowdog]

You're spinning the same arguement so many different ways

It's because I respond and argue everything that guys like you come up with. It's because I have to come up with new ways to try and explain my point of view, in the face of haters, with the hope that MAYBE one of them will get through. Maybe that's a mistake.

[Bun-Bun]

The AH was absolutely used at max level when it let players obtain the legendary piece or set piece they were missing. If it was brought back it would harm the games "season" stylized content because it would then allow the exact same thing to happen, especially with how easy it is to make gold now. To say it was used for leveling only is a long stretch indeed, and makes me think you should look into being a Yogi.
Flight does make the game easier when it comes to the styles of quests Blizzard has in the game. How does not skipping mobs and obstacles NOT make the game easier? Even with the idea I've seen brought up before of loot X item which causes Y amount of mobs to appear, you still just mount up and fly out of the area as soon as you are done, completely bypassing anything else along the way.
As far as content made for flight that's been approached, I just have to ask, what is one of the most hated and avoided zones ever made? Vashj'ir. Now, personally I loved this zone...but the overwhelming majority of "vocal" thread posters will tell you their most hated xpac to date is Cataclysm. The xpac that had flight while leveling and probably THE most flight based content made was one of the most hated. The zone that epitomizes flight based content/combat is one of the most hated. Let's look at Vashj, multi leveled zone, hallways to use mounts, combat without falling to your death (which they could do in the air I would assume, just slow movement speed), great lore with the Naga and elemental planes and Old Gods...worst zone ever by a vocal group.

You're comparing the swimming zone to flight? c'mon... So you're skipping over so mobs... so what? Doesn't make it any easier. Those mobs are not hard. WoD isn't any "easier" with flight now. It's just less tedious. Flight does not make your character more powerful.

And people hate MoP much more than they did Cata. Which I never really understood as I thought MoP was a great xpac.

Doesn't matter how easy it is to make gold now in DIII. There are a lot of gold sinks and the market would inflate like it always does in that sort of game. I played vanilla, I beat inferno in under 200 hours played. I know first hand the AH situation as it was. All the really good items were billions of gold which was out of reach of 99% of the players. Rarely did I find anything worth buying in the AH that was within reasonably attainability without going to the RMAH. It definitely didn't allow me to get gear to beat inferno. The current seasons are much easier/quicker to gear up than it was with the AH.

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I'm not sure what you mean about core gameplay, sure there have been some tweaks to the D3 classes but for the most part the core gameplay of killing monsters has barely changed since the game was first released.

Sure, game engine and basic mechanics haven't changed. But removing the AH didn't fix the game. Loot 2.0 and all the extra content fixed the game. The very thing every one says is ruining WoW (making it too easy and fast) is actually what made DIII better and more fun. Loot is easy to get and the game is super fast to get through. I can complete all of a seasons objectives in under 100 hours. I did so this current season in 50 hours. With each season it gets easier and easier. And people keep coming back for more.

It's a completely different game now IMO then it was a couple years ago.

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I'm okay with Pathfinder myself. I'm even okay with waiting until the end of the expansion (I just hope I don't have to) and I'm very pro flying.

With that being said, I'm very confused with the argument "You skip content with flying and miss out on the world Blizzard made!". How can I be "skipping content" when I can't fly while leveling? And I experience the wonderful and rich world Blizzard made while I'm leveling? I never really got an answer to my question in the other thread, they just kept screaming about skipping content.

And for those who continue to scream "It's only for convenience and just a mode of transportation!" you're are completely, totally wrong and look like a fool in my eyes. I have always, always been a huge fan of mythical flying dragons ever since I was a kid. When Blizzard put in the Netherwing Questline and Dailies I was ecstatic. I did the grind (on multiple characters btw) and my main befriended the Onyx Netherwing Drake. I have collected over 200 mounts and she still rides that drake to this day. Being able to free and befriend that drake and fly with him on my adventures really added to my immersion and experience within WoW. You know, fantasy in a fantasy game?

So no, flying only being a "convenience and mode of transportion" is completely way off the mark when it comes to why I personally want to keep my flying.

I was upset with Blizzard in regards to WoD. I really did end up feeling strung along. First it was "Epic Questline" in 6.1, then it was all the other comments they made after that, then it was "no more flying ever again". Then within two weeks they reversed their decision and introduced Pathfinder. I have to say, so far, they have been doing a lot better with Legion. They have not scrapped nearly as much as they did in WoD and Legion Pathfinder, so far, looks okay to me. I am regaining some of my confidence in them, but I am still a bit leary after the mess that happened with WoD.

Pretty much everything right here. How others fail to understand this baffles me.

[Eapoe]

You're comparing the swimming zone to flight? c'mon... So you're skipping over so mobs... so what? Doesn't make it any easier. Those mobs are not hard. WoD isn't any "easier" with flight now. It's just less tedious. Flight does not make your character more powerful.

And people hate MoP much more than they did Cata. Which I never really understood as I thought MoP was a great xpac.

Doesn't matter how easy it is to make gold now in DIII. There are a lot of gold sinks and the market would inflate like it always does in that sort of game. I played vanilla, I beat inferno in under 200 hours played. I know first hand the AH situation as it was. All the really good items were billions of gold which was out of reach of 99% of the players. Rarely did I find anything worth buying in the AH that was within reasonably attainability without going to the RMAH. It definitely didn't allow me to get gear to beat inferno. The current seasons are much easier/quicker to gear up than it was with the AH.

And yet people still bought those items. I also cleared did D3 up to Inferno, and stopped there. People were still buying off the AH well into Inferno.
As far as comparing an underwater zone to flight, that was in direct response to Cowdog's talks about flight based content. I stated purely that with the multi-leveled zone, the increased movement speed, and the travel on a mount full time that acts as flying. That should give a good idea of what flight based content would be like for what he's asking for.
Skipping over mobs and bypassing obstacles does make it easier, regardless of how you are trying to spin it. As far as your last remark to what the guy said about fantasy and having the mounts, that's great, it really is; however, that was made back then and that type of content has not been around for the current xpac nor the next one. As it has become, flight is a convenience.

[MoanaLisa]

Do you honestly think that removing flight was anything more than throwing gas on an already burning wreck of an expansion?

You do your argument no favors by saying things like this given that the original news about flight being removed started a year before Warlords even launched. It was revealed by Greg Street on an episode of "The Instance" podcast recorded at Blizzcon where Warlords was announced. Given that simple fact I would say that no, removing flight was not "throwing gas on an already burning wreck of an expansion". It's an entirely misleading point.

[wing5wong]

The very thing every one says is ruining WoW (making it too easy and fast) is actually what made DIII better and more fun. Loot is easy to get and the game is super fast to get through. I can complete all of a seasons objectives in under 100 hours. I did so this current season in 50 hours.

You want this out of wow? damn.
D3 was fixed by focusing on the gameplay of D3. Kill monsters, do it fast, get a lot of loot, increase player power.
Legion does the same for wow. go out in the world, do quests/dungeons/pvp/professions, get loot and artifact (player) power

The difference between the games is rate of consumption. WoW was never intended to play primary content in under 2 minutes

[Bun-Bun]

You want this out of wow? damn.

That isn't what I said. Reread what I said and stop comparing things that have no business being compared.

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And yet people still bought those items. I also cleared did D3 up to Inferno, and stopped there. People were still buying off the AH well into Inferno.

Sure some were buying. But it wasn't gamebreaking by any means. The core issues were with the loot system. Blizzard just also realized that the AH went against the fundamentals of dungeon crawling games and decided to remove it. But the true fixes came with Loot 2.0 and all the additional content added.

Completely different from flight.

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As far as your last remark to what the guy said about fantasy and having the mounts, that's great, it really is; however, that was made back then and that type of content has not been around for the current xpac nor the next one. As it has become, flight is a convenience.

And that is entirely your opinion. Nothing more. Flight is a whole hell of a lot more than convenience for a lot of us. It's a completely different game without flight for me.

[wing5wong]

That isn't what I said. Reread what I said and stop comparing things that have no business being compared.

Its the idea your post portrays (mobs add tedium, d3 seasons easier and faster each season)

I'm comparing fundamental gameplay fixes applied to one game (D3 - focus on loot, killing monsters, content, advancing in player power) and the same being applied to legion (doing profs, questing, pvp - whichver you choose (content), advancing player power). These are the same thing.

[SirCowdog]

You do your argument no favors by saying things like this given that the original news about flight being removed started a year before Warlords even launched. It was revealed by Greg Street on an episode of "The Instance" podcast recorded at Blizzcon where Warlords was announced. Given that simple fact I would say that no, removing flight was not "throwing gas on an already burning wreck of an expansion". It's an entirely misleading point.

And I'm certain the game was under development at that time as well. Blizzard designed an expansion with very little to do at the end game and then exacerbated it by removing flight. I'm sorry if you disagree with that.

[Honeyprime]

As far as your last remark to what the guy said about fantasy and having the mounts, that's great, it really is; however, that was made back then and that type of content has not been around for the current xpac nor the next one. As it has become, flight is a convenience.

I am a girl.

The content (past or present) has nothing to do with the my joy and immersion in the game when flying around on a mythical dragon. It's the act of soaring through the skies on a flying dragon that I freed and befriended and seeing the beautiful world that Blizzard created from another angle that does. I knew one of you would come up with something stupid so you could argue "it's skipping content and only a convenience." Why did I have a feeling it was going to be you? You have done nothing but argue just to argue. /facepalm /sigh

And that is entirely your opinion. Nothing more. Flight is a whole hell of a lot more than convenience for a lot of us. It's a completely different game without flight for me.

Completely agree with this.

[SirCowdog]

I'm comparing fundamental gameplay fixes applied to one game (D3 - focus on loot, killing monsters, content, advancing in player power) and the same being applied to legion (doing profs, questing, pvp - whichver you choose (content), advancing player power). These are the same thing.

Do you really believe that flight has anything to do with ruining profs, questing, or pvp? Because we had a decade of all those things WITH flight. And we've already been over how other aspects of the game harmed wPVP, and how bad quest design like MoPs tiers of dailies to unlock more dailies is more likely to cause players to get bored of the content than how they get to the content.

[wing5wong]

Do you really believe that flight has anything to do with ruining profs, questing, or pvp? Because we had a decade of all those things WITH flight. And we've already been over how other aspects of the game harmed wPVP, and how bad quest design like MoPs tiers of dailies to unlock more dailies is more likely to cause players to get bored of the content than how they get to the content.

Ive said its not needed, not that it ruins it.

[Bun-Bun]

Its the idea your post portrays (mobs add tedium, d3 seasons easier and faster each season)

I'm comparing fundamental gameplay fixes applied to one game (D3 - focus on loot, killing monsters, content, advancing in player power) and the same being applied to legion (doing profs, questing, pvp - whichver you choose (content), advancing player power). These are the same thing.

Problem is they are completely different games and AH =/= Flight.

And I think you need to take some reading comprehension classes. Plus you just contradicted yourself to your earlier posts.

[SirCowdog]

Ive said its not needed, not that it ruins it.

It's not needed, but then again, NOTHING is. They could do all the story and drops and loot through 5 man instances instead of raids. PVP could all be one class with no loot. We sure as hell don't need achievements. Fishing is pretty useless to people who don't like sitting there clicking. Hell, lets get rid of flight paths and mounts altogether since they aren't necessary.

[Eapoe]

That isn't what I said. Reread what I said and stop comparing things that have no business being compared.

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Sure some were buying. But it wasn't gamebreaking by any means. The core issues were with the loot system. Blizzard just also realized that the AH went against the fundamentals of dungeon crawling games and decided to remove it. But the true fixes came with Loot 2.0 and all the additional content added.

Completely different from flight.

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And that is entirely your opinion. Nothing more. Flight is a whole hell of a lot more than convenience for a lot of us. It's a completely different game without flight for me.

Other than being in the sky bypassing the world and not interacting with it except for quests, how is it more than a convenience. It's not opinion that flight is a convenience in WoD, and again, so far in Legion. It is not necessary, and does nothing more than taking you out of the content. Sure, you can say that it makes you feel good and you enjoy it all you want (those are opinions, by the way), but the fact remains that it IS a convenience and allows the skipping of content for the current game.

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I am a girl.

The content (past or present) has nothing to do with the my joy and immersion in the game when flying around on a mythical dragon. It's the act of soaring through the skies on a flying dragon that I freed and befriended and seeing the beautiful world that Blizzard created from another angle that does. I knew one of you would come up with something stupid so you could argue "it's skipping content and only a convenience." Why did I have a feeling it was going to be you? You have done nothing but argue just to argue. /facepalm /sigh



Completely agree with this.

Okay, so you're a girl, I apologize for saying guy and not guy/girl.
As for your next point, this is a thread about discussion, and you are saying I am doing nothing but arguin to argue, which is funny considering I make a point, you argue it, I argue back yet I am the one acting this way.
As I said, I understand your feelings of the great mythical dragon beast of the sky that you get to ride around on and enslave to years of servitude until you get bored and move on to the next one. Understanding that though does not mean that flight is anything more than I have said its been. There's still plenty of places for you to mount up and soar thru the open world on your valiant steed, just not at the beginning of the xpac.
Bottom line: regardless of how you feel when you fly, it is nothing more than a convenience and bypass of content, plain and simple. Yes, it can allow you to explore the world from a whole new angle and see things from a birds eye view, but other than the freedom to land where you see fit, this same experience is offered thru flight paths, and falling from a failed nitro boost belt.

[kamuimac]

Do you really believe that flight has anything to do with ruining profs, questing, or pvp? Because we had a decade of all those things WITH flight. And we've already been over how other aspects of the game harmed wPVP, and how bad quest design like MoPs tiers of dailies to unlock more dailies is more likely to cause players to get bored of the content than how they get to the content.

nah proffesion will be ruined enough with blood of sargeras being bop, flying wouldnt effect it as much as it not being boe.

[Eapoe]

It's not needed, but then again, NOTHING is. They could do all the story and drops and loot through 5 man instances instead of raids. PVP could all be one class with no loot. We sure as hell don't need achievements. Fishing is pretty useless to people who don't like sitting there clicking. Hell, lets get rid of flight paths and mounts altogether since they aren't necessary.

Okay. Let's do that. It's a game. I'm sure almost everyone would quit. Who knows? I mean, I'd quit as that would be my breaking point, much as I've stated I understand flight is yours.
Look at GW2, there's no mounts in that game, it hasn't had much of a problem since there's fast travel and the like. Let's get rid of raids, I'm sure the majority of casual players would love it, as there is no need to have anything group like again. Pvp, sure, we could do that and have everyone on equal footing and have no rock/paper/scissors style of balance.
Fishing, ya gotta keep fishing though.

[SirCowdog]

Okay. Let's do that. It's a game. I'm sure almost everyone would quit. Who knows? I mean, I'd quit as that would be my breaking point, much as I've stated I understand flight is yours.
Look at GW2, there's no mounts in that game, it hasn't had much of a problem since there's fast travel and the like. Let's get rid of raids, I'm sure the majority of casual players would love it, as there is no need to have anything group like again. Pvp, sure, we could do that and have everyone on equal footing and have no rock/paper/scissors style of balance.
Fishing, ya gotta keep fishing though.

So what it comes down to is whether or not the amount of players that get angry about not having flight is greater than the number of players who get any about it being available. Removing/Delaying flight causes players to quit. Does being able to fly do the same at anywhere near the same magnitude?

And the question remains: Why is Blizzard doing it when they know it will cause problems?

[Eapoe]

So what it comes down to is whether or not the amount of players that get angry about not having flight is greater than the number of players who get any about it being available. Removing/Delaying flight causes players to quit. Does being able to fly do the same at anywhere near the same magnitude?

And the question remains: Why is Blizzard doing it when they know it will cause problems?

Because as previously stated by the devs, they make games they want to play. Other people enjoy the game as they make it, others don't. When they make the game their way and I don't enjoy it, I too shall move on.

[Idoru]

You do your argument no favors by saying things like this given that the original news about flight being removed started a year before Warlords even launched. It was revealed by Greg Street on an episode of "The Instance" podcast recorded at Blizzcon where Warlords was announced. Given that simple fact I would say that no, removing flight was not "throwing gas on an already burning wreck of an expansion". It's an entirely misleading point.

"We are going to delay it for as long as possible. We've even talked about delaying it past level 100, like maybe patch 6.1 or something."

Not even once did they so much as hint at flying being removed completely. Until it was announced 6 months after release.