[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Myta]

I'm speaking about pvp, good luck trying rotations there.

edit* thinking more about this we really should add something to imply perspective (PvP/PvE) to each post. We've been talking about pretty different things again.

For several pages we've been arguing about OW survivability and specifically people have mentioned survivability in these situations and you not once mentioned PVP survivability, BGs, Arenas etc. Now you're changing to "I meant in PVP!", people aren't mind readers, you do have to stipulate what environment you're talking about. Also balance in pvp is a joke right now anyways with people getting nuked for 500 million, it's not fair to say pvp survivability when pvp right now is an Nth level clusterfuckyclasm.

On an unrelated note, I'm very worried about the DH playstyle at the moment, as the Momentum build is incredibly dynamic and requires good timing/fight knowledge/resource pooling. The CB build is honestly boring as everything by comparison which makes me worried, especially when fights like Krosus make use of VR+FB really dangerous. It'd be really unpleasant if it became the dominant playstyle over something that is arguably more interesting and faster paced.

[Otora]

So I know how to properly use VR in the momentum build with no downtime on my target but I'm not sure about Fel Rush. Is animation cancelling the only way to stay on the boss without spending a second running back to my target?

[jayinjersey]

On an unrelated note, I'm very worried about the DH playstyle at the moment, as the Momentum build is incredibly dynamic and requires good timing/fight knowledge/resource pooling. The CB build is honestly boring as everything by comparison which makes me worried, especially when fights like Krosus make use of VR+FB really dangerous. It'd be really unpleasant if it became the dominant playstyle over something that is arguably more interesting and faster paced.

There will always be fights that are super boring for melee dps...its just the way of things (honestly how "fun" was patchwork?)
I just don't want them to be ALL fights.


That said...I still would love to see Blade Dance worked into the Nem/CB spec just as Eye Beam is a part of the Mo/Dem spec
(I'm saying that as I know there is no way we'll get "both" to be viable in the specs again...so sad I never got to play that DH)

- - - Updated - - -

So I know how to properly use VR in the momentum build with no downtime on my target but I'm not sure about Fel Rush. Is animation cancelling the only way to stay on the boss without spending a second running back to my target?

Strafe Rushing or FelBlade back (don't have to turn for FelBlade) is all I know

[Qlix]

new build going up

https://twitter.com/Zorbrix/status/745363868285710337

[Durtnasty]

What's the best way to read up on all of this without digging through the entire thread?

[Vanyali]

Sorry about this mess reading back it really seems like we were only talking about PvE, that exchange went back further than last linked quotes.

I've been doing mostly arena since BG's seem to always end in first vombo combo without even a chance for counterplay every time you bother leaving graveyard. Not that arena is much better. But yeh damage is bonkers and pretty much untuned (hopefully). Our small group is really hoping that PvP Q/A in few weeks will have more than empty talk about Prestige system, which hilariously will remain untouched by Arena/RBG players in its current form.

I'll try to put my earlier argument better. The issue Havoc seems to have when it comes to PvP survibility is that most of it is mongo survibility (which is fine in PvE). Current toolkit (leech mechanics, lack of snares/snare clears, way resource mechanic works) really pushes you towards just training enemies and trying to burn them with CDs because your defensive and offensive mode are pretty much the same thing. Retreating has little benefit even if successful. You run away, bandage and hope enemy can't catch you while you wait for eyebeam CD to come up. 24/7 training someone is also really annoying playstyle for opponent to fight against.

In practical example right now in a duel between two Havocs, the one that uses metamorphosis first pretty much always loses. Only bringing this up to show how reliant Havoc is on metamorphosis.

tl;dr Assuming no mechanical changes and balanced numbers via PvP templates. Havoc could be competent spec and maybe toolkit turns out alright since all classes lost so much utility in prune. Hard to say yet. Just thinking that Blizzard could have made them play way more interesting in PvP. There are some really intriguing things like having one second 100% dodge on Blade Dance (short window, high skillcap thing) and some PvP talents like Reverse Magic that seem quite unique being pretty much broken against some setups while useless against others.

Arena is just... really broken with current tuning. Like super broken. BGs aren't much better, but eh.

We've had this discussion a few times in the official forums though; our current PvP survivability differs from our PvP offensive by... attacking the exact same way we would normally. Definitely needs to be addressed, and we definitely need a way to break snares because right now a snare = loldead unless you have felblade and get lucky.

[Qlix]

What's the best way to read up on all of this without digging through the entire thread?

Ask very specific questions about anything youre unsure of. Its changed so much reading all 80 pages would be a waste

[Vanyali]

@Orloth

Got pg. 2 for artifact at trait 4, I'll grab some screenies later. Server's unstable af. Also saw you got in on the other thread, so gratz.

[Orloth]

Great! Thanks.

[ChakanDH]

As not to break our tradition, here's my guesses for what's in store for us this beta build.

- Slight buff to eyebeam
- Fel eruption bonus damage to unstunable enemies to function
- meta now gives haste buff instead of 1 sec GCD
- maybe another buff to blade dance/first blood

Or maybe Sweet fuck all....

[MightyWarrior]

Nerf to Chaos Strike
Further nerf to Eye Beam
Even more nerfing to Darkness
Damage for Blade Dance halved.

jk but you can see it happening ayy

[Forde]

As not to break our tradition, here's my guesses for what's in store for us this beta build.

- Slight buff to eyebeam
- Fel eruption bonus damage to unstunable enemies to function
- meta now gives haste buff instead of 1 sec GCD
- maybe another buff to blade dance/first blood

Or maybe Sweet fuck all....

I would love a Fel Eruption buff. Eye Beam definitely needs a buff. First Blood needs Blade Dance to do more damage than a Chaos Strike (after both strikes that it does) in order for it to properly work.

[Vanyali]

Patch is downloading; datamining should be soon.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I would love a Fel Eruption buff. Eye Beam definitely needs a buff. First Blood needs Blade Dance to do more damage than a Chaos Strike (after both strikes that it does) in order for it to properly work.

Reverting the original nerf would be wonderful (increasing it by 200%, not the100% it is now).

[Forde]

Reverting the original nerf would be wonderful (increasing it by 200%, not the100% it is now).

For sure.

Was Inner Demons still bugged? I don't have that trait unlocked.

[Natrii]

SO I have been leveling veng so far because I'm struggling to stay alive as havoc, what am I missing?

[Vanyali]

SO I have been leveling veng so far because I'm struggling to stay alive as havoc, what am I missing?

use blur / cn more pre-104, use meta as a survivability post-104.

but most of all blur and chaos nova, because the CD is short as hell, and an Eye Beam + Blade Dance will make short work of most grouped mobs.

[Natrii]

I'll have to try that when beta comes back up

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Looks like a Chaos Nova nerf... aaaaaand that's pretty much it. Unless someone sees something I haven't yet.

[Otora]

Looks like a Chaos Nova nerf... aaaaaand that's pretty much it. Unless someone sees something I haven't yet.

yeah...that's it