No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Eapoe]

Maybe if you would stop contradicting yourself and put up a solid argument...

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That's hilarious. I knew those types as well.

No contradictions were made, but as seeing you have become nothing but a one trick pony in your debates I feel it's time to move on. I will just stop talking to you and leave with this point: almost everything you have stated has been proven wrong factually or proven as an outright lie trying to express opinion as fact. When you want to get back to discussing flight, please let me know and we can keep that going, but seeing as how you are now trying to troll (one of the worst so far), this has become pointless.

[Idoru]

800g for the skill and 100g for the mount, before reputation discount, iirc.

And that amount could be easily saved from questing to level 70 from scratch.

Slow: 900 for training, 100 for mount.
fast: 5000 for training, 200 for mount.

I came into TBC with 3500G, and when I hit 70 I had to borrow 500G from a guildie to get fast.

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A flying mount at launch is pointless

And we are not asking for that.

[Deleted]

A flying mount at launch is pointless

Gotta love those poster that don't read anything and throw in some mindless stuff.

You do realise that NOBODY actually wants flight while leveling (no, i don't count those two people who do).
And that is not point of the discussion in any way, shape or form.

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Arguing that 'because it was in the game, it should remain in the game' is not a thing.

It is not an argument, it is a fact. So is that if you take a way something MOST people like (for what ever reason) you'll get a nice bruise or two from doing so. That is from a business standpoint. Strange: taking away flight seemed to have cost them more players than taking away the old talent tree. Maybe because the talent tree got some kind of substitute, flight didn't. Not even the "dangerous and savage world" or anything else they said would make people forget about flight or the game more fun.

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People will do those things before flight is enabled. You said yourself, people will do what is needed, and part of character progression/power is getting out into the world. Once they reach a cap or complete that, then yes, I agree with you, people will plant themselves in the cap city and do nothing...like every xpac since Wrath. The only people you saw out of a cap city were gatherers and people doing dailies for mounts. The problem with WoD is that the garrison is completely self sustained and there is no reason to leave. This will not be the case in Legion.

Except Blizz this time seem to invest much time on Things to do out in the world: class-Hall quests, profession quests, rares, world-quests etc. So IF (a big IF here) the majority of people level to 110 and than sit in the Cap-citiy waiting a queue to pop instead of doing the world content, then you know delaying flight is a stupid idea. And don't wonder if people leave the game saying "nothing else to do". Most people are smart and realize when their time is being stolen more than necessary and on purpose.

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Lol if that's the case for your immersion you must be feeble minded

Well it is possible to be even more simple minded when it comes to immersion: some "not so bright people" find being dazed by worthless, non relevant mobs or taking a detour as being "immersive". Well what do i know: something that makes you go out in the world for what ever reason (flight) or something that makes you avoid the world at all cost (ground travel).... which could be called more immersive?

Kid, you are great. :-D Don't understand a thing but want to be part of the discussion. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it not being relevant.

[Nachtigal]

Well it is possible to be even more simple minded when it comes to immersion: some "not so bright people" find being dazed by worthless, non relevant mobs or taking a detour as being "immersive". Well what do i know: something that makes you go out in the world for what ever reason (flight) or something that makes you avoid the world at all cost (ground travel).... which could be called more immersive?

Kid, you are great. :-D Don't understand a thing but want to be part of the discussion. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it not being relevant.

You're even better, boiling it down to something like that, using cool words and all that jazz. Bravo.

People have twisted the word immersion in such a way that they believe it's a synonym for satisfaction. Immersion is when you can 'feel' the surroundings of a video game. How can someone feel the surroundings a mile high in the air? There's nothing for you to be immersed in. Yes it is more immersive being on the ground because then you're aware of what's on the ground, you're aware that you have to watch out for mobs or you might get dazed, it has you actually interacting with the world and responding to it. You can get a sense of immersion from being placed into the world and surrounded with dangers and/or obstacles. People have begun to mistake fun for feelings of immersion. You don't do the content because you can fly, you do the content because you enjoy the doing the content. From there, it's not the flight that makes it immersive, it's what you do after you land.

I could go on, but there's no point. I won't change any of your minds, and you won't change mine. The only thing I can do is express my opinions for Blizzard to read on the off-chance they look at this thread for feedback.

My opinion: This is probably one of the best ways for Blizzard to go about the flight/non-flight debacle. This way, players like me get to experience things from the ground, without having to handicap myself while people fly around and grab all the nodes or rare spawns before I get there. While players like you will eventually (earlier in the expansion than Warlords had it) get to experience everything you want from flight. You claim that I shouldn't get my way because it takes away from your enjoyment, but for you to get what you want means I don't get what I want. This way, everyone will get what they want. If people aren't willing to accept this new way of releasing flight, than they're probably toxic to the game to begin with.

[rda]

How can someone feel the surroundings a mile high in the air? There's nothing for you to be immersed in.

That's why I don't fly a mile high in the air, I fly at the level where I can see the ground and if I am, say, gathering or looking for something in general - which is 99.9% of cases - I fly barely above the trees.

"You claim that I shouldn't get my way because it takes away from your enjoyment, but for you to get what you want means I don't get what I want." -- there's a difference in that he and I don't want you to do anything you wouldn't want to (ie, if you find it better to go by ground, be our guest and go by ground), but you do want us to do something we wouldn't want to (you want us to stay on ground). You are equating "guys, please don't harm me" with "nah, let me harm you" and saying that these things have equal merit because in both cases there is a side that wants X and a side that wants no X. It kind of matters what that X is, don't you think?

"I could go on, but there's no point." -- no, no, go on. If you want to say that being on the ground is more immersive than being in the air, that's a no go, it's not true at all (and someone will at some point justifiedly insert the word 'subjective'), but maybe you have something else.

[Nachtigal]

That's why I don't fly a mile high in the air, I fly at the level where I can see the ground and if I am, say, gathering or looking for something in general - which is 99.9% of cases - I fly barely above the trees.

"You claim that I shouldn't get my way because it takes away from your enjoyment, but for you to get what you want means I don't get what I want." -- there's a difference in that he and I don't want you to do anything you wouldn't want to (ie, if you find it better to go by ground, be our guest and go by ground), but you do want us to do something we wouldn't want to (you want us to stay on ground). You are equating "guys, please don't harm me" with "nah, let me harm you" and saying that these things have equal merit because in both cases there is a side that wants X and a side that wants no X. It kind of matters what that X is, don't you think?

"I could go on, but there's no point." -- no, no, go on. If you want to say that being on the ground is more immersive than being in the air, that's a no go, it's not true at all (and someone will at some point justifiedly insert the word 'subjective'), but maybe you have something else.

I mean.. I don't want flight at all in the game but I realize that other people do, and I understand why people do. But I would like to enjoy the content on the ground without handicapping myself.

I'm curious, what does the word 'immersion' mean to you?

[rda]

I mean.. I don't want flight at all in the game but I realize that other people do, and I understand why people do. But I would like to enjoy the content on the ground without handicapping myself.

I'm curious, what does the word 'immersion' mean to you?

Immersion to me means feeling like I am part of the world instead of pixels.

I get that if everybody was on the ground, it'd feel better for you, but it's basically a wrong thing to want. It's like me wanting all ladies between 20 and 30 to go out naked (what's wrong? that's what I want, maaaaan). Or, fine, let's be less extreme, it's similar to me wanting everyone to pay me $10 every time I ask. Yes, that'd certainly make me feel better and it's perhaps fine to be wanting that silently sitting somewhere in the corner, but basing decisions on that is just silly, it's a non-starter.

It'd be somewhat different if we didn't already have flying, although not a lot different.

[Deleted]

Bravo.... you Clearly show you have NO IDEA what immersion actually means.

You're even better, boiling it down to something like that, using cool words and all that jazz. Bravo.

People have twisted the word immersion in such a way that they believe it's a synonym for satisfaction. Immersion is when you can 'feel' the surroundings of a video game.

Bravo.... you Clearly show you have NO IDEA what immersion actually means. There isn't such thing as "this one way everybody feels immersed in this game".

How can someone feel the surroundings a mile high in the air? There's nothing for you to be immersed in.

Ok, since you lack understanding i explain it to you like i use to explain it to dumb people: Just because YOU fly a mile high in the air doesn't mean everybody does all the time. And yes i feel much more immersed when flying on my dragon, following a river millimeter from it's surface just do sky dive the waterfall that comes at the end, than riding around, getting stuck on a 2 inch bump and get dismounted by an unrelevant and not dangerous enemy NPC.

Yes it is more immersive being on the ground because then you're aware of what's on the ground, you're aware that you have to watch out for mobs or you might get dazed, it has you actually interacting with the world and responding to it. You can get a sense of immersion from being placed into the world and surrounded with dangers and/or obstacles. People have begun to mistake fun for feelings of immersion. You don't do the content because you can fly, you do the content because you enjoy the doing the content. From there, it's not the flight that makes it immersive, it's what you do after you land.

Oh you are pretty simple minded if that is what immerses you. But, bravo, you are the perfect customer for blizzard selling you less effort for more money.

I could go on, but there's no point. I won't change any of your minds, and you won't change mine. The only thing I can do is express my opinions for Blizzard to read on the off-chance they look at this thread for feedback.

Yes changing minds is a fruitless endeavor. Especially since everybody decides for them selves what immerses him/her the most (making themself feel part of a virtual world). And since you proved to be unable to use flight in an immersive way (only seem to know sky high and land) i really hope Blizz looks here. Hopefully they see what they are doing with talking about how immersion should feel and that they are the people to tell people how they should enjoy games.

My opinion: This is probably one of the best ways for Blizzard to go about the flight/non-flight debacle. This way, players like me get to experience things from the ground, without having to handicap myself while people fly around and grab all the nodes or rare spawns before I get there. While players like you will eventually (earlier in the expansion than Warlords had it) get to experience everything you want from flight. You claim that I shouldn't get my way because it takes away from your enjoyment, but for you to get what you want means I don't get what I want. This way, everyone will get what they want. If people aren't willing to accept this new way of releasing flight, than they're probably toxic to the game to begin with.[/QUOTE]

Newsflash: Notes.... EVERY resource note in game is PERSONAL. Like in Gw2, it doesn't matter if somebody is there before you, you get your own note. And Reares are tagable by every one, one hit => loot. So your imaginary "disadvantage" is non existent. So you actually get NOTHING taken away, like the way it has been the last 4 expansion / 11 years.

Best way to get both would be to have those pristine servers coming without flight. So the very few people that don't want flight at all can get what they want, and the Rest gets it's achievement unlocked with the release patch. But that would never happen. Blizz seems to be wanting to prove that people and them selves are wrong by gating flight behind a timed wall an risking to lose more people over it than they gain.

[rda]

Best way to get both would be to have those pristine servers coming without flight. So the very few people that don't want flight at all can get what they want, and the Rest gets it's achievement unlocked with the release patch.

This would do nothing even if Blizzard were to do it. No-flight servers would be more or less empty. The reasoning would be the same - "why would I nerf myself". (I am not necessarily saying it is wrong reasoning, that's beside the point, just that having separate servers would do nothing.)

[Nachtigal]

Immersion to me means feeling like I am part of the world instead of pixels.

I get that if everybody was on the ground, it'd feel better for you, but it's basically a wrong thing to want. It's like me wanting all ladies between 20 and 30 to go out naked (what's wrong? that's what I want, maaaaan). Or, fine, let's be less extreme, it's similar to me wanting everyone to pay me $10 every time I ask. Yes, that'd certainly make me feel better and it's perhaps fine to be wanting that silently sitting somewhere in the corner, but basing decisions on that is just silly, it's a non-starter.

It'd be somewhat different if we didn't already have flying, although not a lot different.

How is a wrong thing to want? What I want, you don't like. What you want, I don't like. At least this way, we both get a little of what we want, why is this option so bad? Because it's not 100% what you want? Are you totally unwilling to compromise? If that's the case then you can't tell me I am wrong. Why is it okay for you to tell me that I am wrong, and that you're right? This is ALL subjective. You are no more right/wrong than I am.

[rda]

How is a wrong thing to want? What I want, you don't like. What you want, I don't like. At least this way, we both get a little of what we want, why is this option so bad? Because it's not 100% what you want? Are you totally unwilling to compromise? If that's the case then you can't tell me I am wrong. Why is it okay for you to tell me that I am wrong, and that you're right? This is ALL subjective. You are no more right/wrong than I am.

I said "how" it is a wrong thing to want, please read what you quoted.

I *am* more right than you are, because we want radically different things, and the thing I want does not demand anything from you (or anyone else) while the thing you want demands stuff from me (and everybody else).

What compromise? Is taking just 40% of my time for your enjoyment instead of 70% a reasonable compromise? Yeah.

[Elim Garak]

How is a wrong thing to want? What I want, you don't like. What you want, I don't like. At least this way, we both get a little of what we want, why is this option so bad? Because it's not 100% what you want? Are you totally unwilling to compromise? If that's the case then you can't tell me I am wrong. Why is it okay for you to tell me that I am wrong, and that you're right? This is ALL subjective. You are no more right/wrong than I am.

The problem is I don't get the thing I want.
Also I am not required to give you the thing you want.
And there's nothing I need from you for the thing I want.

So how is it not wrong?

[Deleted]

The problem is I don't get the thing I want.
Also I am not required to give you the thing you want.
And there's nothing I need from you for the thing I want.

So how is it not wrong?

We already have had a good compromise before. All dungeons and raids and BGs and Arena without flight. All new areas with better rewards without flight. In the mainland, flying unlocked with max level, and later the addition of earlier flying for alts. This is what I want to have back.

Edit: My favorite solution would even be flying everywhere in the open world, no matter where. And no-flying in all instanced areas, except some special dungeons which work with special flying mounts. But it seems that we will never get that, so I would like to return to the concept of Wrath or MoP.

[wing5wong]

Immersion to me means feeling like I am part of the world instead of pixels.

I get that if everybody was on the ground, it'd feel better for you, but it's basically a wrong thing to want. It's like me wanting all ladies between 20 and 30 to go out naked (what's wrong? that's what I want, maaaaan). Or, fine, let's be less extreme, it's similar to me wanting everyone to pay me $10 every time I ask. Yes, that'd certainly make me feel better and it's perhaps fine to be wanting that silently sitting somewhere in the corner, but basing decisions on that is just silly, it's a non-starter.

It'd be somewhat different if we didn't already have flying, although not a lot different.

errrrr no.

[rda]

errrrr no.

That's very convincing, I am a convert, please take my money, Blizz.

[Maudib]

One must understand...

Blizzard doesn't give a SHIT who doesn't want flying. They don't give a SHIT who does want flying.

They did this (despite their immersion bullshit excuse) to slow down the consumption of content.

Now that we are back to 2+ year expansions with real content patches I hope they revisit their stance on flying and make it available at launch, at max level, with maybe a one stage Pathfinder. But definitely make it able to be earned at launch.

Clearly, pro flyers outnumber "I'll stay if flight is added back sooner" anti flyers. But Blizz doesn't care.

[rda]

(^^ Yes, I agree with this. All those talks about "hey, man, it's more immersive that way" are not just wrong, they are beside the point.)

[Maudib]

That's very convincing, I am a convert, please take my money, Blizz.

Ha ha! Yeah... you just have to ignore people after a while because it's clear they have not a foot to stand on and are simply arguing to troll.

RDA, you and I both know what is going to happen... people are going to start unsubbing after a couple months of no flying bullshit and how the world quests are. Blizz will add the final part of Pathfinder in the very first content patch in order to stem the bleed.

[Elim Garak]

people are going to start unsubbing after a couple months of no flying bullshit and how the world quests are. Blizz will add the final part of Pathfinder in the very first content patch in order to stem the bleed.

I'll still stay unsubbed until the expansion in which we can fly at least right at level cap before any patches.

[Deleted]

errrrr no.

Oh, wing5WRONG struck again. Well played sir, well played.
*epic slooooooooow clap*


:-D