No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Bun-Bun]

You're right it does. It also confirms the majority are either happy or ambivalent about waiting for flight to be unlocked in a later patch.

Nope, it only proves they were ignorant prior to that. There has been no proper polling or release of information to determine the numbers of each camp.

As to the rest of your post, go watch the interviews with Activisions CEO.

[Dhrizzle]

Nope, it only proves they were ignorant prior to that. There has been no proper polling or release of information to determine the numbers of each camp.

Actually all it proves is "no flying ever" prompted Blizz to go back to "flying eventually." It doesn't prove that subscribers were ignorant about "no flying" in WoD, because WoD had been out for several months with "no flying," or do you think all the people who unsubbed were still leveling in May and had no idea that flying wasn't waiting for them at lvl 100?

As to the rest of your post, go watch the interviews with Activisions CEO.

Which one, the bitching about the smack-talk from EA's CEO about CoD, or the future of Skylanders, or would you like to narrow it down?

[Eapoe]

You're the one doing this. You make up your own definitions and have a black and white view on everything. I have been consistent in what I have been saying. You have not.

I never said either company wasn't successful. Only that WoD was/is a flop. The company profits are based on many things, only one of which is WoD initial sales/subs.

Many people have stated the same, Blizzard said flight would only return if the majority want it. There was no public announcement of anything prior to the no flight announcement mid last year! That's the whole reason most of us are upset about the whole thing. But if you go back through the interviews with WoW devs and reddit AMAs you will find this information.

But if you can't even be bothered to research the subject you are arguing then what are you even doing here?

You keep saying one thing and then saying something else by saying you never said it. We aren't talking about the company's success as a whole, as I stated WoD was a success for Blizzard and pointed out what quarter I pulled it from after you said it was a failure. Now you are trying to spin your answer about talking about the company. Stay on topic. WoD was one of the biggest contributors in that quarter, along with Hearthstone. As it stands, by definition WoD was a success. I've shown you many different reasons why yet you cants admit you are wrong about it and cling to the hope I will slip on that statement. Anyone that can read can go back over your posts and see that this is true.
Who are these many people saying Blizzard stated flight would return of the majority wanted it? Are they people like you who say that they said it? Again though, where did they get these numbers to determine majority? There was no poll offered, there was no in game contact by a GM, there was no known announcement they said that, so where is this coming from?
Of course there would be no prior announcement before the 1st announcement of no flight...that's kind of what a 1st announcement is. Now, if you want to say that you are upset because they originally said later in the xpac and then said no flight, sure, I can understand that would upset you...but your wording is lacking (not surprising as you generalize things and then defend them trying to make the other look stupid).
So now I have to ask, what announcement are you referencing, the one about majority of player for flight, the no flight at all? Clarify, because I'd hate to answer both and have you go to your old defense of "that's not what I meant!" Why don't you cite all these things you reference? Why not post these things for people to see instead of saying "it happened, go look for yourself." Also, which one is it, did Blizzard say "if the majority wants it," or did multiple people say Blizzard said that?
What information are you telling me to find? The same information you and I, and others I this thread have been talking about already? I've stated the way Blizzard handled it was done so poorly, that's not the issue. I feel like the more I talk to you the more you are hoping your comments will be separated by pages so people don't see how back and forth you are from what you say to what you mean and back again.
As much as you want to try and refute it, WoD was still a successful expansion by the very parameters that defines success: made money (substantially) and retained players. It had its failures, as even Blizzard said the garrison became something they didn't want it to be, and yet they still liked the idea and want to expand on it, leading us to class halls. They failed with some of the biggest content gaps to date. Yet, even besides these things, by very definition it was a success, just not as much of a success as previous xpacs.

[Bun-Bun]

Actually all it proves is "no flying ever" prompted Blizz to go back to "flying eventually." It doesn't prove that subscribers were ignorant about "no flying" in WoD, because WoD had been out for several months with "no flying," or do you think all the people who unsubbed were still leveling in May and had no idea that flying wasn't waiting for them at lvl 100?

Up until the announcement in min 2015, it was not publicly known that flight wasn't coming. Up until that point Blizzards official stance was flight was coming in a upcoming patch. It was only in reddit RMAs and video interviews that the truth was shared. When they announced no flight ever, that was the first a lot of people were hearing about it, and affirmation to the rest that flight was indeed not coming. It was the breaking point.

95% of people I talked to in game thought flight was coming in the next major patch. They were in ignorant bliss.

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Which one, the bitching about the smack-talk from EA's CEO about CoD, or the future of Skylanders, or would you like to narrow it down?

Any of them. They all show his character and what his goals with his company are.

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You keep saying one thing and then saying something else by saying you never said it. We aren't talking about the company's success as a whole, as I stated WoD was a success for Blizzard and pointed out what quarter I pulled it from after you said it was a failure. Now you are trying to spin your answer about talking about the company. Stay on topic. .

You stay on topic. You were the one that brought up gross profits of the company. I've been talking about WoD.

Blizzard devs admitted they screwed up with WoD. Go watch the interviews. Seriously, there is a lot of informaton hidden in reddit AMAs, interviews and twitter. They are trying to save face with Legion but the trust is already broken.

[Eapoe]

Up until the announcement in min 2015, it was not publicly known that flight wasn't coming. Up until that point Blizzards official stance was flight was coming in a upcoming patch. It was only in reddit RMAs and video interviews that the truth was shared. When they announced no flight ever, that was the first a lot of people were hearing about it, and affirmation to the rest that flight was indeed not coming. It was the breaking point.

95% of people I talked to in game thought flight was coming in the next major patch. They were in ignorant bliss.

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Any of them. They all show his character and what his goals with his company are.

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You stay on topic. You were the one that brought up gross profits of the company. I've been talking about WoD.

Blizzard devs admitted they screwed up with WoD. Go watch the interviews. Seriously, there is a lot of informaton hidden in reddit AMAs, interviews and twitter. They are trying to save face with Legion but the trust is already broken.

Ive been on topic and never changed. Yes, I did indeed brought up gross profit, made by 2 IP's. Blizzard stated they messed up some things in WoD, but not WoD itself, as my last post stated.
And so you tell me to look up interviews and Reddit for information I've openly discussed? Why would you bring this up? As stated, I have not denied any of this happened and freely discussed it with you and people before you. You can state 95% of people knew nothing about it prior to that announcement, but that statement shows you are blissfully ignorant yourself as NO ONE KNEW UNTIL THE ANNOUNCEMENT HIT.

[Dhrizzle]

Up until the announcement in min 2015, it was not publicly known that flight wasn't coming. Up until that point Blizzards official stance was flight was coming in a upcoming patch. It was only in reddit RMAs and video interviews that the truth was shared. When they announced no flight ever, that was the first a lot of people were hearing about it, and affirmation to the rest that flight was indeed not coming. It was the breaking point.

95% of people I talked to in game thought flight was coming in the next major patch. They were in ignorant bliss.

I've no idea what point you're trying to make that goes against what I've been saying. When Blizz were planning on releasing flying in a later patch people were happy, when they decided to cut flying altogether people were less happy, when they reverted to implementing flight in a later patch people were happy again.

Any of them. They all show his character and what his goals with his company are.

He thinks it's bad for the industry if publishers slag off each others' products, and Skylanders is pretty cool but he doesn't think the business model should move to other Activision products. I'm not sure how that supports your idea that WoW is dead because it isn't outselling GTA, or whatever your point is trying to be.

[Krobane]

How is this thread still alive?!?!? Just die already!

[Maneo]

The only thing that will kill this thread and others like it on other forums is Blizzard saying

"Flight will be available at Launch in Legion and all future expacs"

Didn't see to many threads about flight during BC, WoTLK, Cata or MoP yeah?

They could lessen the activity of this thread by saying:

"Pathfinder can be completed and flight will be available at launch" - Would still have some people complaining about Pathfinder though.

or

"Pathfinder can be completed and flight will be available during the first content patch" - again though you would still have people upset about pathfinder and the wait.

The thing is I am not pro flight. I am pro a better more engaging game, however I suspected Blizzard wouldn't deliver so back during MoP I took the pro flight stance. WoD proved me right. WoD is the perfect counter to every talking point you anti fly boyz and Blizzard use...

It would be like saying Joel Schumacher would make a great Batman movie.. and then someone bringing up Batman and Robin, and you response is " So Joel Shumacher could make a great Batman movie" Totally disregarding the one he already made.

[Dhrizzle]

The only thing that will kill this thread and others like it on other forums is Blizzard saying

"Flight will be available at Launch in Legion and all future expacs"

Didn't see to many threads about flight during BC, WoTLK, Cata or MoP yeah?

They could lessen the activity of this thread by saying:

"Pathfinder can be completed and flight will be available at launch" - Would still have some people complaining about Pathfinder though.

or

"Pathfinder can be completed and flight will be available during the first content patch" - again though you would still have people upset about pathfinder and the wait.

The thing is I am not pro flight. I am pro a better more engaging game, however I suspected Blizzard wouldn't deliver so back during MoP I took the pro flight stance. WoD proved me right. WoD is the perfect counter to every talking point you anti fly boyz and Blizzard use...

It would be like saying Joel Schumacher would make a great Batman movie.. and then someone bringing up Batman and Robin, and you response is " So Joel Shumacher could make a great Batman movie" Totally disregarding the one he already made.

I found the world content in WoD to be more engaging than the world content in MoP. Oh look we have different opinions and nothing was destroyed.

Also I though Isle of Quel'danas and Molten Front were some of the best pieces of content in their respective expansions. I can't speak for Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle because MoP's initial content put me off the whole expansion, but I understand they were also well received.

[Argarock]

I believe that MoP would have been better without flying
And that WoD would have been better if it had had flying from the start.
As they have claimed to designed legion, i think its fitting that it wont have flying

[Deleted]

Specific numbers, no. But Blizzard said they would only bring back flight if the majority wanted it. They thought the majority did not so announced no flight ever again. Then they got the true feedback and 180ed on their decision only two weeks later.

That action confirms the majority want flight.

That confirms the majority wants flight at some point in the addon, but not necessarily after dinging 110. I just think its a minority that wants(need) it at the start.

[Bun-Bun]

Ive been on topic and never changed. Yes, I did indeed brought up gross profit, made by 2 IP's. Blizzard stated they messed up some things in WoD, but not WoD itself, as my last post stated.
And so you tell me to look up interviews and Reddit for information I've openly discussed? Why would you bring this up? As stated, I have not denied any of this happened and freely discussed it with you and people before you. You can state 95% of people knew nothing about it prior to that announcement, but that statement shows you are blissfully ignorant yourself as NO ONE KNEW UNTIL THE ANNOUNCEMENT HIT.

There you go again. Twisting things to fit your argument. You are such a hypocrite.

Also, I did know flight was not coming. I knew this shortly after release. And I was pissed, I bought WoD and caught up on missed content and upgraded my computer for nothing. Wasted money with no recourse as this is the only industry companies are allowed to get away with this shit. I went to the Blizz forums and these forums to discuss and try to get my feedback heard. People, like you, defended Blizzs actions and said there has been no such claims and yadayadayada. I gave up in January, I unsubbed. Looked what happened. I would go find those people and say I told you so but Blizzard deleted my entire account on the forums.

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I've no idea what point you're trying to make that goes against what I've been saying. When Blizz were planning on releasing flying in a later patch people were happy, when they decided to cut flying altogether people were less happy, when they reverted to implementing flight in a later patch people were happy again.

Are people happy? I don't see very many happy people. I see people who hate pathfinder; people who don't care either way, people who are content with it; and people that hate that flying is back in the game.

I was happy I could actually fly in Draenor, but I am not happy about the situation still or the future.

And I am trying to make the point that people didn't know Blizzard was planning on not bringing flight back when they thought or even at all until that mid year announcement. That whole time Blizzard thought the feedback was positive with no flight, but no one actually knew they were planning on not bringing it back!

They hid this information in a reddit ama, video interviews, and twitter. No where on their site did they actively discuss the experiment. Hell you can't even find Bashioks blue posts through google or the forum search anymore. I have to find them linked from old news articles. For those that don't remember, Bashiok said flight in 6.1. Then there was the reddit AMA after, not before, release. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...hent?context=1 <-- no plans to bring back flight here. This was also around the time the poorly worded poll was up on this site.

Ion stated the experiment was over in the mid year announcement. And people were pissed, rightly so. Go back to the beginning and explain the experiment with the possible outcome of no flight ever and see what would have happened. In any other industry this type of behavior would be scrutinized and lead to lawsuits. But here, people come to defend Blizzards BS.

To date there still hasn't been proper discussion and feedback on the subject with Blizzard. As a result they are looking to repeat the whole fiasco again.

[CheeseSandwich]

I work in the airline industry. It got me thinking how flight in WoW could be similar to flight in real life. Bare with me, we may encounter some turbulence.

When commercial flights first came into being, they were a rare and exciting thing, reserved for the wealthy and those skilled enough to earn the right to fly. They were a wonder, a sort after dream to obtain flight like the birds, to gaze on the majestic world from above. To achieve what was impossible before, and to utilize this new wonder.

Before long, flying became the norm, people everywhere used it for general transportation, stopping off at places of their choosing (or not of their choosing) on the way to a chosen destination. People became accustomed to it, relied on it, trusted it and some even enjoyed the journey for what it was, some endeavored to train themselves to gain this freedom over gravity for themselves. People ultimately just saw it as a part of the world, some never needing to use it, some hating it for what ever reason, but the vast majority using it on a regular basis, and despite some problems, was improved upon and utilised better.

But flight also became a necessity as well. It was used from such mundane things as moving freight and people's purchases in an efficient manner, to moving vital medical equipment and life saving goods, and even as a vital component of combat and war. Some people even had extreme fun with it, finding all sorts of ways to get enjoyment out of this now normal part of the world.

As the technology improved, so did the use, access, affordability and need for flight increase, and also the abilities to counter it. And this is where flight in the real world differs from WoW.

Flight in WoD was the equivalent of all governing bodies and international regulations boards grounding all but the cattle class aircraft for an indefinite amount of time while they see if there really is a need for flying in the first place, and seeing as only half the population felt a negative effect from this, saying 'yeah, we feel it is pretty safe to ground flying craft forever, this went pretty well!', only to have every rational regular user of flight, be they commercial, recreational, private and/or necessary, protest in the street outside IATA buildings for 2 weeks straight until they realised what a mistake they made.

But instead of just swallowing a bitter pill, eating humble pie and accepting the broader public's opinion of the need for flight, they sullenly permit air traffic again, but on the proviso the intended user complete a long series of security checks, license tests, physical exams, credit checks and std swabs before they gain their wings, but they just have to fix the gravity everywhere first. Shouldn't take long.

The point is, removing flight was irrational and achieved nothing, it was an experiment that ultimately failed and was handled atrociously. The fact that no lesson was learnt from this when designing Legion is baffling on the point of incredulousness. It borders on Nero levels of arrogance and insanity.

Just a comparison I drew on my Friday evening after work. I'm not gonna respond to any nit pickings about this, cuz I didn't write it for personal debate, I wrote it for a relevant comparison that I perceived. If others wish to discuss my points, fine, but I won't bother to respond other than to clarify.

*Edit: Personally regarding this issue I think people fall into 5 categories and 2 sub categories.
1) They see flight as sitting in a passenger seat on an airline, "Just take me where I want to go without fuss".
2) They see flight like they are the pilot of there own unlimited petrol helicopter, taking off and landing wherever takes their fancy, control of their own transport and freedom, knowing they have to land to actually do anything.
3)(a)Those that are happy and really want to just drive a car to get places.
3)(b)Those that claim they are happy and say they really want to just drive a car to get places, but will jump in a helicopter or jump in a passenger aircraft on a whim for FOMO.
4)(a) "I don't have a problem with flight personally, but here are all the reasons why flyers are wrong"
4)(b) "I don't have a problem with flight personally, but your a dumb shit noob for wanting something I don't care for."
5) I have a fundamental and irrational hate for player controlled flight.

[Mafic]

The only thing that will kill this thread and others like it on other forums is Blizzard saying

"Flight will be available at Launch in Legion and all future expacs"

Didn't see to many threads about flight during BC, WoTLK, Cata or MoP yeah?

They could lessen the activity of this thread by saying:

"Pathfinder can be completed and flight will be available at launch" - Would still have some people complaining about Pathfinder though.

or

"Pathfinder can be completed and flight will be available during the first content patch" - again though you would still have people upset about pathfinder and the wait.

The thing is I am not pro flight. I am pro a better more engaging game, however I suspected Blizzard wouldn't deliver so back during MoP I took the pro flight stance. WoD proved me right. WoD is the perfect counter to every talking point you anti fly boyz and Blizzard use...

It would be like saying Joel Schumacher would make a great Batman movie.. and then someone bringing up Batman and Robin, and you response is " So Joel Shumacher could make a great Batman movie" Totally disregarding the one he already made.

I thought the other thread would slow down but then they announced no flying forever and it picked up steam. To me, what happens next is simply a waiting game to see what Blizzard considers middle of the expansion. Or when the bean counters say time to release their ace up their sleeve to stop bleeding subs once more.

[Eapoe]

There you go again. Twisting things to fit your argument. You are such a hypocrite.

Also, I did know flight was not coming. I knew this shortly after release. And I was pissed, I bought WoD and caught up on missed content and upgraded my computer for nothing. Wasted money with no recourse as this is the only industry companies are allowed to get away with this shit. I went to the Blizz forums and these forums to discuss and try to get my feedback heard. People, like you, defended Blizzs actions and said there has been no such claims and yadayadayada. I gave up in January, I unsubbed. Looked what happened. I would go find those people and say I told you so but Blizzard deleted my entire account on the forums.

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Are people happy? I don't see very many happy people. I see people who hate pathfinder; people who don't care either way, people who are content with it; and people that hate that flying is back in the game.

I was happy I could actually fly in Draenor, but I am not happy about the situation still or the future.

And I am trying to make the point that people didn't know Blizzard was planning on not bringing flight back when they thought or even at all until that mid year announcement. That whole time Blizzard thought the feedback was positive with no flight, but no one actually knew they were planning on not bringing it back!

They hid this information in a reddit ama, video interviews, and twitter. No where on their site did they actively discuss the experiment. Hell you can't even find Bashioks blue posts through google or the forum search anymore. I have to find them linked from old news articles. For those that don't remember, Bashiok said flight in 6.1. Then there was the reddit AMA after, not before, release. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...hent?context=1 <-- no plans to bring back flight here. This was also around the time the poorly worded poll was up on this site.

Ion stated the experiment was over in the mid year announcement. And people were pissed, rightly so. Go back to the beginning and explain the experiment with the possible outcome of no flight ever and see what would have happened. In any other industry this type of behavior would be scrutinized and lead to lawsuits. But here, people come to defend Blizzards BS.

To date there still hasn't been proper discussion and feedback on the subject with Blizzard. As a result they are looking to repeat the whole fiasco again.

How would you know there was any intention of never releasing flight though? As people use for their arguement as to why they hate Blizzard, it was will release in future patch, will release in future patch...no flight ever. There was no talks anywhere about it. Also, for someone so adamant about flight and how it makes you feel, and as someone I seem to remember stating no support of Blizzard 2016, why would you buy the product knowing flight wouldn't be in game?
This line of reasoning is highly suspect...
As far as your hidden meaning, they said flight would be released at a later patch after 6.0, to which they followed up with continuing this stance into 6.1 which I saw specifically stated in your link; yet, you are now telling us you have the greatest ability to dissect human langauge and highest intellect ever fathomed to say that this was a hidden message of no flight ever?
You state there hasn't been feedback given to Blizzard and they will make the same mistakes again, yet this is after a post you wrote about exit interviews and how that gave them feedback for flight and how you know the majority wants it.
I applaud you as you truly have taken the highest honor of being able to spin things in such a way that is truly mind boggling...and I read and discussed things with people in the Nost forum. I'm done...I just can't take you seriously anymore. Feel free to respond to me if you will, but I will no longer return the favor.

[Connll]

I thought the other thread would slow down but then they announced no flying forever and it picked up steam. To me, what happens next is simply a waiting game to see what Blizzard considers middle of the expansion. Or when the bean counters say time to release their ace up their sleeve to stop bleeding subs once more.

But this time, how many losses will catch up the accountants attention? Legion won´t lose 5 million subs, for there is a strong possibility of it never having this number in the first place.

[Bun-Bun]

How would you know there was any intention of never releasing flight though?

The writing was on the wall. Once I discovered there wasn't flight at launch I scoured every last bit of information I could on the topic and it was clear to me the Dev's intentions were to remove flight completely. Then I tried to give my feedback in every way possible and when at every turn Blizzard continued to ignore the feedback and delete every single bit of information that suggested people wanted flight... I gave up. I un subbed in January 2015. I continued on these forums and a couple other places discussing flight but then when the announcement came I completely removed myself from anything Blizzard. I didn't even see at first that they undid their decision two weeks later. It was a few months before I found out.

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no flight ever. There was no talks anywhere about it.

Umm... http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17597939626#5

http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/22/864...mo-pc-blizzard

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/198...enor-6-10-2015

And the reddit link in my earlier post (From december 2014... they knew earlier on they had no intentions of releasing it).

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Also, for someone so adamant about flight and how it makes you feel, and as someone I seem to remember stating no support of Blizzard 2016, why would you buy the product knowing flight wouldn't be in game?

Thats the core of the issue. I didn't find out until after I already paid for the game. Had I known before hand, I never would have bought WoD, or invested any time into it, or upgraded my computer for it. That Reddit AMA was the nail in the coffin for me. I had seen nothing prior to launch about no flight as it wasn't advertised on their website anywhere, and what I did read up after launch gave me my suspicions and then the reddit AMA. Their reasons for not having flight at launch continued into 6.1, nothing was going to change after that. That content they were so keen on forcing everyone to do wasn't going to go away.

And now I know Legion wont have flight so I am not buying it. Beta is all I will ever see of Legion and the only reason I am playing it is to help figure out why people are getting headaches and eye strain in Legion.

[wing5wong]

You took those threads and spun them into a completely different thing.

All they say, as have many others in the thread, is that flight detracts from the core gameplay experience blizzard want to offer.

Flight was never advertised as a component of wod. YOU personally made that assumption

I dont know why people continue to butt heads with you.

[Bun-Bun]

You took those threads and spun them into a completely different thing.

All they say, as have many others in the thread, is that flight detracts from the core gameplay experience blizzard want to offer.

Flight was never advertised as a component of wod. YOU personally made that assumption

I dont know why people continue to butt heads with you.

Those threads are specifically talking about no flight in Draenor. Which was the point I was conveying, and was in response to what I quoted. Two of the links are with Blizzard actually stating no more flight and the reversal of said decision.

Flight was on the artwork and a flying mount was one of the collectors perks. After launch all discussion on flight involving Blizzard had the no flight theme as you just said yourself. They obviously were not bringing it back. The interview with Ion in Jun 2015 confirms this as Draenor wasn't even ready for flight. He also admitted in that same interview that the communication from Blizzard on the topic of flight was handled poorly. A lot of good that does me. I want my money back.

None of this was advertised prior to launch. The best we had was some tweets about it and Bashiok saying flight in 6.1 through a quest or something. And why shouldn't I assume that a feature of a game for the past 8 years wouldn't' still be there? That is not an outrageous assumption. Should I not assume warlocks will be in Legion?

How you or anyone else will sit there and defend a company for such obviously shady practices baffles me.

EDIT:

Also in the June interview with Ion he admits all this so called engaging content sucked and they regret doing it the way they did. That interview was a bash fest. Not one positive question was asked. It was all here is everything that sucks about Draenor, how are you going to fix it?

[Eapoe]

You took those threads and spun them into a completely different thing.

All they say, as have many others in the thread, is that flight detracts from the core gameplay experience blizzard want to offer.

Flight was never advertised as a component of wod. YOU personally made that assumption

I dont know why people continue to butt heads with you.

Yeah, he/she is very good at cut pasting responses to suit their needs too. You say something about a direct link, then they cut it out to suit their needs to prove you wrong. It's pretty laughable really, kind of why I stopped talking to them. Either a troll or just someone that thinks they are cleverer than they are.