Do we ever really kill demons?

[Qualia]

And yet Kazzak returns after he was killed in Outland that is floating in the Nether.

On Blizzard's defense, Outland is not. It is in the border between physical universe and the Nether, we don't know how that kind of positioning is categorized (is it in both? or neither?). It could be in neither, while in the process of falling into one side (Nether), but haven't fallen close enough to be saturated with Nether's energies yet. At least, in "Illidan", Outland was still counted as part of reality.

[Deleted]

Basically when we kill a demon in our world all we do is destroy its physical shell, when that happens we just basically send it home to the Nether.

[FelPlague]

its kinda strange, only 2 demon hunters die there, the guy who cant metamorph and explodes because his body cant handle that shit
and in one quest you can choose between sacrificing an ally or sacrificing yourself, if you choose him he does die, but if you choose yourself you dont.
you are basically the only demon hunter who cant die.

i think blizz is fcking their own rules.

no, only some demon hunters reach that point, heck he may have returned to his body if you gave him enough time, illidan even comments you are one of the few demon hunters who have embraced your inner demon enough to revive at your body


also no its not based on "fel saturated planets" its that the twisting nether is basicly a alternate universe of its own, and all planets there are basicly fel saturated planets, so when we go there thats what we see just asteroids everywhere of felflame and space

the demon we have 100% killed so far is archimonde (blizz may pull back on this)

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On Blizzard's defense, Outland is not. It is in the border between physical universe and the Nether, we don't know how that kind of positioning is categorized (is it in both? or neither?). It could be in neither, while in the process of falling into one side (Nether), but haven't fallen close enough to be saturated with Nether's energies yet. At least, in "Illidan", Outland was still counted as part of reality.

the twisting nether is a alternate universe of its own basicly, we havent had confirmation of this, but because it "goes over all realities" it is presumed it is 1 alternate timeline and the demons travel through timelines, not time, but timelines, and since the twisting nether would be just a destroyed universe, it would be alot of empty space, so yeah, as it owuld not make sense now that we know there is only 1 twisting neather ,for outland to be near it

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Basically when we kill a demon in our world all we do is destroy its physical shell, when that happens we just basically send it home to the Nether.

yes, we basicly make it have to find another coin in its purse for the arcade machine :P

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And yet Kazzak returns after he was killed in Outland that is floating in the Nether.

outland is not in the twisting neather, it is a shard of a planet left in space, as if it was the twisting nether illidan would be gone, magthidon, both things weve seem coming back to life, along side kazzak

[Deleted]

Azeroth was merely a setback!

[Mehrunes]

outland is not in the twisting neather, it is a shard of a planet left in space, as if it was the twisting nether illidan would be gone, magthidon, both things weve seem coming back to life, along side kazzak

And that's precisely why Outland's equivalent of sea zone is... the Twisting Nether.

[FelPlague]

And that's precisely why Outland's equivalent of sea zone is... the Twisting Nether.

the twisting neather is a alternate universe of its own.. not outter space... outland is in the same universe as us, just somewhere way far away... as we see with the dranei, you can fly from argus to draenor and draenor to azeroth, so they are in the same universe..., outland is just basicly a giant asteroid of draenor left over after its destruction floating through space, not through the twisting neather...

remember sargeras is trapped in the twisting neather right now, as he was going through a portal from argus, to the twisting neather (used as a pylon) then to come to azeroth but we destroyed the portal so hes trapped in there... so it would make 0 sense for hi mto be trapped in outer space... cause he can just fly through space...

[Qualia]

the twisting nether is a alternate universe of its own basicly, we havent had confirmation of this, but because it "goes over all realities" it is presumed it is 1 alternate timeline and the demons travel through timelines, not time, but timelines, and since the twisting nether would be just a destroyed universe, it would be alot of empty space, so yeah, as it owuld not make sense now that we know there is only 1 twisting neather ,for outland to be near it

Minor correction - it is not an alternate universe, though. It's an alternate / another dimension. Chronicle stated that universes are part of realities, created from the clash between the Light and the Void. The Twisting Nether, on another hand, is an "astral dimension" that exists outside of realities (universes).

[AwkwardSquirtle]

the twisting neather is a alternate universe of its own.. not outter space... outland is in the same universe as us, just somewhere way far away... as we see with the dranei, you can fly from argus to draenor and draenor to azeroth, so they are in the same universe..., outland is just basicly a giant asteroid of draenor left over after its destruction floating through space, not through the twisting neather...

remember sargeras is trapped in the twisting neather right now, as he was going through a portal from argus, to the twisting neather (used as a pylon) then to come to azeroth but we destroyed the portal so hes trapped in there... so it would make 0 sense for hi mto be trapped in outer space... cause he can just fly through space...

I'm pretty sure he is in space. Chronicle said something to the effect of the reason he's not here yet is because space is really big. You can "just fly through it" but it would take millenia, and with the threat of the Void he doesn't have that kind of time. He needs to be summoned and kill the world soul now.

[FelPlague]

I'm pretty sure he is in space. Chronicle said something to the effect of the reason he's not here yet is because space is really big. You can "just fly through it" but it would take millenia, and with the threat of the Void he doesn't have that kind of time. He needs to be summoned and kill the world soul now.

that was before he was trapped in the twisting neather by trying to use the portal to get here, also not exactly as the legion battle ships have flown here, its taken 10 thousend years but their ships have finally arrrived, so were is sargeras?

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Minor correction - it is not an alternate universe, though. It's an alternate / another dimension. Chronicle stated that universes are part of realities, created from the clash between the Light and the Void. The Twisting Nether, on another hand, is an "astral dimension" that exists outside of realities (universes).

well you know what i meant as its not something you can just "go to" its in another plain, its not just "space"

[AwkwardSquirtle]

that was before he was trapped in the twisting neather by trying to use the portal to get here, also not exactly as the legion battle ships have flown here, its taken 10 thousend years but their ships have finally arrrived, so were is sargeras?

Sargeras is a living planet. You can't put him in a spaceship. He's big enough to cut planets in half. We've got no idea how fast he can travel, but it's totally plausible that he's still travelling, or just busy coordinating things until they can summon him cause travelling normally isn't worth the effort. They were never clear on what happened to him after the Sundering, he could be in the Nether or somewhere in the Great Dark Beyond.

[Hammerfest]

Biblical demons can be destroyed by God. In WarCraft, however, the closest thing we have to God is the Holy Light (which bares almost no resemblance and is depowered to the point that it is just another school of magic). It's not surprising to me that the demons of WarCraft can't be destroyed permanently.

[RedGamer030]

We kill the demons' bodies, but not their souls. The souls return to the Twisting Nether to recover and take new bodies. The stronger the demon, the longer it takes for the soul to recover and a new body to be made.

[FuxieDK]

Basically when we kill a demon in our world all we do is destroy its physical shell, when that happens we just basically send it home to the Nether.

Exactly like elementals...

Ragnaros@Vanilla was slain in Molten Core, which is in Azeroth, thus he was banished back to Firelands (Elemental plane of fire), where he could be destroyed for good..
Al'akir was killed in Skywall (Elemental plane of air) and is thus destroyed for good.

[Deleted]

So how is outland in the twisting nether? its just draenor , you don't go to another dimension or realm, you just cross a portal to another world not realm/dimension.

what governs being a part of the twisting nether where you can kill demons for good

[ryudaraku]

Hi,


so demons can not be killed in our realm, only in the twisting nether right?

When do we ever actually go to the twisting nether to kill these demons for good?

Broken shores is just a place, it isnt the twisting nether is it? it is still in our realm.


Also in the broken shore invasion event. Before the end where all those big demons appear and say stuff like 'I HAVE RETURNED'

I get the impression those 3 big demons that speak have been in the game before, is that true?

Short answer.

Nope, which means that Grom's sacrifice in WC3 meant jack and shit.

[Devidose]

We usually dont kill demons for good but it usually takes them considerable effort to leave the twisting nether.

Those demons that return, are those:
Lord Jaraxxus, Brutallus and Tichondrius the Darkener? The first is from the Argentum Tournament, second is from Sunwell plateau and the third was killed by Illidan in WC3.

These demons also return in Legion during the same Broken Shore event from the Alliance PoV: Azgalor returns twice, once at the start of the Horde side of the beach invasion and again at the very end when the demon army ports in. The Eredar Twins from Sunwell. Mal'ganis who was killed by Arthas when he took up Frostmourne which has me wondering if that demon soul was stuck in Frostmourne until it broke at the end of the LK fight. Tichondrius who was killed by Illidan after he absorbed the powers of Gul'dan's skull. Balnazzar, another Dreadlord, that was killed at the end of Stratholme. Hakkar the Houndmaster, who was part of the 3rd war, killed by Malfurion. Cordana from WOD, Varedis the DH trainer from outside BT in TBC.

[Mehrunes]

the twisting neather is a alternate universe of its own.. not outter space... outland is in the same universe as us, just somewhere way far away... as we see with the dranei, you can fly from argus to draenor and draenor to azeroth, so they are in the same universe..., outland is just basicly a giant asteroid of draenor left over after its destruction floating through space, not through the twisting neather...

You can enter any planet from the Twisting Nether too, so I'm not sure how a transdimensional ship reaching Azeroth from Outland is proof that Outland is still in the Great Dark Beyond. Especially since their method of transportation is via Twisting Nether... And have I said that the Nether is outer space? Nope. I only said it is directly accessible from Outland and kinda all around Outland. Which would make Outland float through... Twisting Nether. Unless you have proof that this Twisting Nether is different kind of Twisting Nether, then there is no reason to think so.

Mal'ganis who was killed by Arthas when he took up Frostmourne which has me wondering if that demon soul was stuck in Frostmourne until it broke at the end of the LK fight.

Mal'ganis already returned in 3.0.

[Volardelis]

On Blizzard's defense, Outland is not. It is in the border between physical universe and the Nether, we don't know how that kind of positioning is categorized (is it in both? or neither?). It could be in neither, while in the process of falling into one side (Nether), but haven't fallen close enough to be saturated with Nether's energies yet. At least, in "Illidan", Outland was still counted as part of reality.

Outland is in the twisting nether, flying away from any direction leads you into the 'twisting nether'. You see some of the nether astral winds in zones such as hellfire, Blades edge, hell even Nagrand. The netherwing dragonflight was created when nether energies came into contact with black dragon eggs, plus Kael'thas was using the mana forgers to drain the nether dry in Netherstorm (which is where Socrethar is killed, but guess who returns in WoD?)

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So how is outland in the twisting nether? its just draenor , you don't go to another dimension or realm, you just cross a portal to another world not realm/dimension.

what governs being a part of the twisting nether where you can kill demons for good

When Ner'zhul opened up numerous portals at the same time, the resulting energies caused Draenor to explode and sent what remained (outland) into the twisting nether.

But it seems blizzard is either retconing that or forgot it because of rule of cool

[Qualia]

You can enter any planet from the Twisting Nether too, so I'm not sure how a transdimensional ship reaching Azeroth from Outland is proof that Outland is still in the Great Dark Beyond. Especially since their method of transportation is via Twisting Nether... And have I said that the Nether is outer space? Nope. I only said it is directly accessible from Outland and kinda all around Outland. Which would make Outland float through... Twisting Nether. Unless you have proof that this Twisting Nether is different kind of Twisting Nether, then there is no reason to think so.

The Nether being directly accessible from Outland and being around Outland doesn't make it floating through or being inside the Twisting Nether. It only make Outland connected with the Nether - as I have said, it's on border of both reality / physical universe and the Nether, and could be technically on neither of them (partly here and there). Otherwise, the entire universe / Great Dark Beyond can be considered floating through Twisting Nether - the Nether is also directly accessible from our universe thanks to that big hole Sargeras created and it also lie parallel in contact with our universe (and all other alternate ones).

We know from Chronicle that the Nether exist outside of all realities (universes). Outland, on the other hand, still was considered part of the universe / reality in "Illidan". It is similar to Argus, which was described as "hovered on the brink between the Twisting Nether and the physical universe", the only difference was that Argus was more saturated with the energies of the Burning Legion thanks to their thousands years of occupying the planet.

Outland is in the twisting nether, flying away from any direction leads you into the 'twisting nether'. You see some of the nether astral winds in zones such as hellfire, Blades edge, hell even Nagrand. The netherwing dragonflight was created when nether energies came into contact with black dragon eggs, plus Kael'thas was using the mana forgers to drain the nether dry in Netherstorm (which is where Socrethar is killed, but guess who returns in WoD?)

See my explanation above. It isn't fully in the Twisting Nether. It is still part of the universe, while the Nether exist outside realities / universes. Being in the edge of both giving it what you described, but made it inside neither.

When Ner'zhul opened up numerous portals at the same time, the resulting energies caused Draenor to explode and sent what remained (outland) into the twisting nether.

But it seems blizzard is either retconing that or forgot it because of rule of cool

Blizzard stated multiple times through various medias (game, book, etc.) that Outland is only in process of falling apart and into the Nether. It will be in time, but for now, it isn't fully there yet. So no, they didn't forget or retcon that.

[FelPlague]

You can enter any planet from the Twisting Nether too, so I'm not sure how a transdimensional ship reaching Azeroth from Outland is proof that Outland is still in the Great Dark Beyond. Especially since their method of transportation is via Twisting Nether... And have I said that the Nether is outer space? Nope. I only said it is directly accessible from Outland and kinda all around Outland. Which would make Outland float through... Twisting Nether. Unless you have proof that this Twisting Nether is different kind of Twisting Nether, then there is no reason to think so.




Mal'ganis already returned in 3.0.

you can but that requires demonic portals... and the dranei do not use that... and because demons killed in outland are not fully killed, so that is garunteed proof then, as illidan did not fully die, nor did magthoridan, so