Why did communism never work?

[cubby]

Seems like a sensible and rational system.

Corruption and human nature.

[THE Bigzoman]

Because they didn't actually follow Marx's script.

Though that's kind of Marx's fault. He's pretty vague in describing the evolutionary path a society has to take to transition into communism successfully.

But i'm sure the "that's not really communism" no truse scotsman bullshit has already flooded the thread. Those that make that argument would be just as wrong as Mao and Stalin were when they tried it.

[Charge me Doctor]

Because humans are not controlled by hive mind, and human (as species) society is too divided by fucking stupid reasons (like borders, colour, believes, etc) to work for greater good of humanity together, instead, humans want to work for greater good of their own lives.

[Cricket22]

Great you want to be the guy who socializing with the animals at the kennel so they like and trust humans. Do you not want to study "animal health" or you perfer to see your puppies and kitty cats to suffer if they get ill? The education do not need to be deep only the basic so you know then somthing is wrong and you need to fetch the veterinarian. Maybe then you want to lern more so you can preventing injuries and illness.....

And who do you think is going to be willing to take on the work I currently perform now? Let me answer that for you, NO ONE!

And who is going to volunteer for garbage pickup? To clean the sewers? Sweat their butts off working in construction, or in the fields planting and picking crops? How about cleaning out pig pens, and butchering animals in the slaughter houses? Who is going to volunteer to work in professions where they have to risk their lives?

Who instead gets to be a rock star? Or a forest ranger? Or a govt official? Who gets to Supervise, and who ends up doing all the mind numbing, boring, tedious hard work? You know, most jobs aren't all that interesting, or anything remotely resembling fun, not to mention, a lot of jobs that necessary, but also, filthy, disgusting, and downright gross, so who do you think's going to volunteer for those? Again, No. One. Ever.

Ok, so there might be a few masochists willing to tackle the worst of the worst jobs, but not enough. So who gets to decide?

[Elim Garak]

And who is going to volunteer for garbage pickup? To clean the sewers? Sweat their butts off working in construction, or in the fields planting and picking crops? How about cleaning out pig pens, and butchering animals in the slaughter houses? Who is going to volunteer to work in professions where they have to risk their lives?

Who's doing it now?

[TheWindWalker]

And who is going to volunteer for garbage pickup? To clean the sewers? Sweat their butts off working in construction, or in the fields planting and picking crops? How about cleaning out pig pens, and butchering animals in the slaughter houses? Who is going to volunteer to work in professions where they have to risk their lives?

People unqualified for anything they'd find more appealing and thus the same as it would be in a straight-up free market. Those things you listed tend to pay the least, the last depends on whether or not "risk their lives" is legally applicable for "hazard pay" but otherwise "Jose and Bubba need to get their rent paid so they'll do what they have to."

[Macaquerie]

And who do you think is going to be willing to take on the work I currently perform now? Let me answer that for you, NO ONE!

And who is going to volunteer for garbage pickup? To clean the sewers? Sweat their butts off working in construction, or in the fields planting and picking crops? How about cleaning out pig pens, and butchering animals in the slaughter houses? Who is going to volunteer to work in professions where they have to risk their lives?

Who instead gets to be a rock star? Or a forest ranger? Or a govt official? Who gets to Supervise, and who ends up doing all the mind numbing, boring, tedious hard work? You know, most jobs aren't all that interesting, or anything remotely resembling fun, not to mention, a lot of jobs that necessary, but also, filthy, disgusting, and downright gross, so who do you think's going to volunteer for those? Again, No. One. Ever.

Ok, so there might be a few masochists willing to tackle the worst of the worst jobs, but not enough. So who gets to decide?

Immigrants mostly. Oh sure they won't like it more than anyone else, but if we keep hurling insults and hatred at them just for existing they will be content with just being allowed to stay and won't complain about pay or working conditions.

[Cricket22]

Who's doing it now?

Individuals who weren't able to get those jobs as rock stars and forest rangers, along with those of us who can't afford to live on the non-existent salary of volunteering at a pet shelter to play all day with puppies and kittens.

[Elim Garak]

Individuals who weren't able to get those jobs as rock stars and forest rangers, along with those of us who can't afford to live on the non-existent salary of volunteering at a pet shelter to play all day with puppies and kittens.

What will happen to these people in Communism? Will they disappear? Or do they all become Rock Stars? Or Forest Rangers?

[Cricket22]

Immigrants mostly. Oh sure they won't like it more than anyone else, but if we keep hurling insults and hatred at them just for existing they will be content with just being allowed to stay and won't complain about pay or working conditions.

First of all, we're talking about a utopian communistic society, where everyone gets to do whatever work they want that they happen to find interesting.

And second, I personally have performed an awful lot of those menial, low-paying jobs, that supposedly, only immigrants will do. Strangely however, I enjoyed every one, considered them valuable learning experiences, and never considered any job I've ever held to be "beneath" me.

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What will happen to these people in Communism? Will they disappear? Or do they all become Rock Stars? Or Forest Rangers?

Only in the magical fantasy land of "perfect", which we don't live in.

[Elim Garak]

First of all, we're talking about a utopian communistic society, where everyone gets to do whatever work they want that they happen to find interesting.

That's not promised in communism. Everyone gets to do whatever the work they can do in order to get what they need. The work is never promised to be what they find interesting.

Only in the magical fantasy land of "perfect", which we don't live in.

So they will have to do the same work in order to get the necessities.

[Hooked]

Communism is the end result of crybullies.

[Deleted]

Because it's utopian (atleast from someone's pov). Humans and utopian ideas don't mix well.

AS opposed to what? We are very far off the idea of a freemarket capitalist society.

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And who do you think is going to be willing to take on the work I currently perform now? Let me answer that for you, NO ONE!

This thread is full of people who think that in socialist or self-proclaimed communist societies that everyone gets paid the same. They don't.

You had de facto rich people and poor people in the Soviet Union and elsewhere.

Take this monstrosly stupid misconception out of the thread and you have nothing.

[Cricket22]

That's not promised in communism. Everyone gets to do whatever the work they can do in order to get what they need. The work is never promised to be what they find interesting.

Excuse me, but by saying, "whatever work you find interesting", I was specifically responding to another poster, and that was the criteria HE specified.

However communism states, "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs", right?

I most certainly am perfectly capable of working at a shelter, and playing with puppie dogs and kitty cats all day. The only reason I'm not doing it now is because, in our current capitalistic society, volunteer work doesn't pay enough to support myself on. I have the ability to do it, so under communism, that's what I should be able to do.

How hard could it be to be a Forest ranger, sittingin a tower, watching for Forest fires? Oh yes, I do believe that's something I CAN do too. Hey, I can sing and play the guitar, so in your communistic society, that means I can be a rock star, right?

So they will have to do the same work in order to get the necessities.

No, if I had zero financial incentive, I wouldn't have worked full time, while also attending college. And after graduation, I certainly wouldn't even have considered accepting a position that required 12-16 hour days, for months on end --on salary, meaning, no overtime pay. Where, like all the other first year employees, I brought a pillow and blanket, to sleep under my desk, rather than risk getting into an accident while attempting to drive home in a state of total exhaustion.

So if I refused, and if instead of assigning me to a nice job working at the shelter, the communist govt. assigned me to sweep the streets? Yeah ok. I am also totally capable of sweeping veeeerrrryyyy slowly, and finding nice shady trees to lay under, and polish off a six pack or two of beer, before napping the afternoon away. Yes, I can!

You kidding me? There's no way on this planet that I would ever agree to work all that hard, without any type of financial incentive to do so, especially since I would probably be one of the very FEW suckers who actually did. Naw, I'm gonna sluff off, just like everyone else.

Which is why communism never has, or ever will, succeed.

[Deleted]

There's no way on this planet that I would ever agree to work all that hard, without any type of financial incentive to do so

Christ, you are really wilflly ignorant aren't you? I just told you this is not the case in socialist societies.

[Deleted]

Seems like a sensible and rational system.

If you don't calculate human nature :P.

Unfortunatly Communism gets easily corrupted by Dictatorship and economicly it makes people less willing to put effort in work because the aspect of helping sustain a good business and so your job is gone.
Money is a big factor in motivating people to work a lott and do it well. For me even without money id like to work to feel valuable, but without increase in money i feel underapreciated.

Now neo liberalism / corperatism (often refered with capitalism) has similiar flaws. It wants to corrupt democracy and the market as well and under pay the worker. The only advantage it has over Communism is that it works much slower in it's corruption. You might also say we had a good run with it and gotten some new progress out of it but it's not working anymore (although the said progress might have just happened under keynes system as well.


Their both 2 extremes of how to run the economic market. Extremes never really work but tend to be needed to start changing the status qou sadly.

[Deleted]

money is a big factor in motivating people to work a lott and do it well. For me even without money id like to work to feel valuable, but without increase in money i feel underapreciated.

Is it really so fucking difficult to understand that people were and are paid different wages in socialist/communist states, just as they are under capitalism?

[Cricket22]

This thread is full of people who think that in socialist or self-proclaimed communist societies that everyone gets paid the same. They don't.

In true communism, they sure do.

You had de facto rich people and poor people in the Soviet Union and elsewhere.

And that's because the Soviet Union and "elsewhere" never were true communist societies.

Take this monstrosly stupid misconception out of the thread and you have nothing.

"From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs" seems pretty clear. The Soviet Union and "elsewhere" just failed to adhere to the basic tenets of communism.

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Christ, you are really wilflly ignorant aren't you? I just told you this is not the case in socialist societies.

We're not talking socialism here. Read the title of this thread, and then we can discuss "ignorance."

[Deleted]

Is it really so fucking difficult to understand that people were and are paid different wages in socialist/communist states, just as they are under capitalism?

socialist and communist is something completly different in EU.

[Deleted]

In true communism, they sure do.



And that's because the Soviet Union and "elsewhere" never were true communist societies.



"From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs" seems pretty clear. The Soviet Union and "elsewhere" just failed to adhere to the basic tenets of communism.

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We're not talking socialism here. Read the title of this thread, and then we can discuss "ignorance."

You are digging a hole for yourself. Please be quiet.