I KNEW the movie would flop

[Nekoyou]

wut
What are trying to say?
As I said, most things in the movie don't make any sense unless you have some WoW knowledge.

Well, yes you do have to have some WOW knowledge if you want to enjoy the movie more and know who the characters are. But do you need the knowledge to understand, follow along, and enjoy the movie? No. The movie makes sense all on it's own. What I was trying to say was that the movie is self explaintory. Nothing else needs to be explained from what I can see from a movie stand point. By that I mean nothing that would not normally go into a sequel or into another movie. They explained basically everything they showed. They just did it subtly instead of flat out saying it. I want them to keep it that way. I don't want them to have to flat out explain every little thing.

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It doesn't. The movie is a financial flop as it is, but if it wasn't connected to WoW, it would have been a complete disaster, money from WoW / Warcraft fans have been vital.

If it wasn't WOW what would the movie be about? I mean it is a cult action/story movie...that's like saying if the Avenger's wasn't about the Avenger's it would be a total disaster...yes I would imagine it would be..

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That shows just how little you know and who all wants a cut and who all had contracts well before legendary was recently bought VS how long the movie was in development. They all want their cut

There are more companies than just Wanda Group and it's american based subsudeary Legendary in teh mix. There are financial backers in China, including Internet giant Tencent, state-run China Film Group and the Huayi Bros. studio and that doesn't include universal who also wants their cut.

Again, those contracts do not get changed because of legendary being bought. Those smaller studios still want to be paid. No one company wanted to take on warcraft for fear of it being a loss so they got multiple backers so no one company would have to take a hit but that also means they all want their share. It does not all go back to Legendary or Wanda Group.

and thats before I get into the massive marketing that was done everywhere but the U.S.

"Legendary inked deals with more than two dozen major marketing partners including Jeep, Intel, Lenovo, an insurance company and an herbal tea maker, resulting in a juggernaut of promotional muscle."

With marketing skyrocketing in costs already thats huge. Especially when you see just what was done for China and Uk alone from here:
http://variety.com/2016/film/asia/te...-s-1201794300/

Unprecedented cost of marketing to hit the one area they had to have success in so they made it happen. AKA the power of marketing and a fanatic fanbase like no other.

I love this quote on it:
"“People think this would just sell itself,” Loehr added. “But it actually took a lot of work." They worked their asses to just get it to where it is and very clearly spent a whole lot more than initially reported in budget. You can bet marketing hit the same higher expenditures.

A future movie with fewer backers might do better overall or even in China but this one doesn't fall into that category. To many hands in the pot.



This movie needed every bit of 500M to even get close to break even, if it was even possible for it to ever make a profit (given the sideways accounting most movies get).

The 18M for the stream and DVD sales might get it close to a break even point but there not in the busienss to break even or make a couple million.

Your 160M x2.5 isn't even in the realm of what was needed. You're going to have to try harder or imagine more because you're way off base.

I'm curious are you suggesting that they would have to make 500M after they paid everyone back before they made a net profit? is that what you are saying? Because I would imagine the 500M would cover all of those costs as well no?

[quras]

SNIP...

I'm curious are you suggesting that they would have to make 500M after they paid everyone back before they made a net profit? is that what you are saying? Because I would imagine the 500M would cover all of those costs as well no?

I'm talking break even point. The cost to cover what the movie spent for the last 10 years. Total gross of about 500M.

Not an additional 500M but roughly 500 million total to just reach a break even point. I personally think it will take a bit more than that but people don't want to believe it from the article I posted a few ago. So I go with the age old formula.

On average a movie needs to make twice it's budget and marketing expenditure. Warcraft being 160M + 100M est = 260M x2 = 520M. Just as a good rough estimate. Yes, I think 500M is as good as were going to get till real figures in marketing are out (if they ever get out) but what we know is marketing costs are extremely high these days and they went above and beyond in marketing warcraft. You can bet that 100M average is either close or low for what was actually spent.

[Grenzstein]

But they are, as the rest of the Orcs. Show me how collaborating with a Nazi-like dictator is "not evil"?

If you call actively plotting against and leading an insurrection as" collaboration" then there's no much to say. Because as soon as the frostwolves understood the price they were paying for their conquest and what had happened to their world was an effect of fel they started plotting against it.

[TheTaurenOrc]

Well its all but gone from the cinemas (only 3 more showtimes in my area) and the dust is finally settling.

<$50M domestic and 90% of the total gross from foreign, if that wasn't bad enough not even sure it broke-even...

Yep, its a flop. The usual suspects were right and can have their told you so moment. I will be genuinely shocked if the make another.

[Tackhisis]

If you call actively plotting against and leading an insurrection as" collaboration"...

The only reason for that is that Gul'dan threatened the world they prepared for themselves, after killing all opposition.

[TheTaurenOrc]

Well, as said before...do you have a definition of a "flop" that you would share? Is 90% gross from foreign automatically a flop because an american movie MUST make most money back in America? Patriotism rules over math?

Bluntly yes. American studios making English language movies want to see a good domestic gross. Don't believe me, fine, but that's why all the box office sites put domestic gross first and foremost. They are not going to pull the trigger on a project in the hope its going to do well internationally.

Its an unknown recipe they are still wrestling with, seriously who saw Furious doing so well in China. Furthermore the movies that are strong internationally are also strong domestically, so aiming for strong domestic gross and using that as your gauge is better.

Not breaking even in cinemas is up for debate, depending who you want to listen to and we are not even into DvD sales or Tv rights at a point where the movie made 412 million on a 160 million budget.

The usual suspects....

Your forgetting marketing budget and the theaters (still not non-profit organizations) in that equation. How do you think the pitch for a sequel is going to go if the first one only made its money back 1 year later in DVD sales? Who in their right mind would risk that.

[Tackhisis]

Can you see a difference between the movie that made 120% of its budget domestically and one that made 30%?

[TheTaurenOrc]

Indeed I truly do not believe you. Money knows no country. If Hollywood can make crazy amounts of money from sales, they won't care from what country it came. And as true capitalist they certainly would not care. What kind of logic is this really? "Our film made 20 million in the US. It is a disgrace. The 2 billion we made world wide does not count" Seriously? Who runs a company like that? But then again I am European. I certainly have stopped understanding America a long time ago. Maybe that is how you tick.

Hindsight is 20/20. I am talking about what a studio looks at to green light the project in the first place.

You can cherry pick the handful out liners, which Warcraft doesn't even fit into anyhow, if you want to. It doesn't change the fact that American studios make English speaking movies for US audiences first and foremost. They certainly don't make them for a Chinese audience they are barely getting to understand.

[Fabinas]

If that is true, I suppose the studios are crying bitter tears about films like Transformers 4. 20% domestic. What a pittance and screw you world that 80% came from abroad. Transformers 4 cost 210 million and made 245 million in the US. Clearly a flop I guess?...the 800 million worldwide..sheesh..who needs that shit (cannot believe I cite this piece of shit movie, but ..desperate times).

Harry Potter franchise. 2 billion in the US, 7 billion world wide. 5 billion dollars "don't count"?

Does every film have to be a Star Wars 7 where 50% of the gross comes from America?

Indeed I truly do not believe you. Money knows no country. If Hollywood can make crazy amounts of money from sales, they won't care from what country it came. And as true capitalist they certainly would not care. What kind of logic is this really? "Our film made 20 million in the US. It is a disgrace. The 2 billion we made world wide does not count" Seriously? Who runs a company like that? But then again I am European. I certainly have stopped understanding America a long time ago. Maybe that is how you tick.




Yeah, the marketing budget is something we are all wrestling with (as in: has it been disclosed?) and theatres seem to operate differently in China (apparently owned by the people who put up some of the budget)

Why are you comparing movies that made 2 billion and 245 million in US with one that did 50 million?

[Plehnard]

Pacific Rim made only 53% of its Budget domestically and 1/4th of it's overall box office, Pacific Rim2 is scheduled for Feb 2018.

[Plehnard]

And yet it still made more than 2x what Warcraft has/will domestically.

That's true, but both films have one big thing in common. They did the strongest in China.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=pacificrim2.htm
Take a close look at the picture, that's likely the same future Warcraft is facing. Films aren't just done for the US any more.
Both films are distributed by Universal as well.

Edit.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...films_in_China
Warcraft is the 8. highest grossing movie in China of all time, number 4 for international Films there.
How likely is it that Wanda will let an IP die out that's one of the strongest in their own market?

[TheTaurenOrc]

It is not like the production company does not reap the benefits of the international market.

And heres what your not understanding, no one is say that they don't. But its not an indicator that they have proven to green light projects solely on.

[Osmeric]

The other thing to consider for greenlighting of a sequel is how WoW itself has decayed since they started on the first movie, and where it's likely to be when the sequel comes out. Why make a movie for a game that will likely be dead (or close to it) when the movie comes out?

[Fabinas]

I suppose I made a too long and too complex post and just didn't express myself too well if that is what you take from my post. I was trying to reply to the point where "only domestic gross counts"

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I honestly do not understand this insisting on a poor domestic gross and ignoring the international box office. It is not like the production company does not reap the benefits of the international market.

No, i totally get your point about international gross. I just believe that you used two extremely poor examples to prove your point, as the actual money earned in your examples make the international gross irrelevant. This is not the case with Warcraft, where the domestic US gross is too small compared to the international one, both as percentage and as actual money earned.

[smooshtheman]

i gave it 4/10

[Sylv_]

The film was pretty god awful.
Where was the plot? It was lacking.

It's like a D grade on a uni paper, jesus christ m8s.

[Tackhisis]

i gave it 4/10

What a coincidence. Why did you?

[smooshtheman]

What a coincidence. Why did you?

all of the human actors just did a horrendous job, especially the khadgar fellow

[ravenmoon]

The other thing to consider for greenlighting of a sequel is how WoW itself has decayed since they started on the first movie, and where it's likely to be when the sequel comes out. Why make a movie for a game that will likely be dead (or close to it) when the movie comes out?

nah, it's not that, times have changed, considerably, and warcraft debuted on the weekend of the Orlando shootings. Another dark film with so much violence is not going to get a cold reception in that climate.

youngsters gunning people down, even if it's islamic is still quite a sick ordeal to most people. And the warcraft movie is very heavy.

Beyond that, you have to look at the times we are in, most people have serious problems in a way their ancestors in the 90s and 80s never did, it's a lot darker for them, warcraft is more a reminder or harbinger of very real dark times, rather than entertainments for sheltered lives and minds.

You may not identify with it much, gamers sometimes have myopia to the object of their affection especially when so induced, and tend to assume because something is not an issue to them, it therefore isn't an issue to anyone and so don't understand why it didn't do as well as they thought it was.

[Plehnard]

You're right, films aren't just for the US anymore. But it doesn't make a ton of sense for a US company to produce films in Mandarin before dubbing/subbing them to other languages. And I'm not sure Blizz is going to leap at a film that they can't watch in their native language. And if they didn't make money off of it AND it saw massive drops each week with allegations that they were propping it up in the first place? The movie was projected to make $275-$300M in China on the low end, some people thought it had potential to beat F7. It isn't even going to crack $250M in China. I could see them passing on a sequel. Especially after the massive marketing they did in China.

Those who claimed that the film get beyond 300 were western experts. Look at the Chinese box office and you'll realise it's the norm that a film drops there around 70% per week, like I said in an earlier post:
Finding Dory did fall for 65% there as well in the second week, X-Men Apocalypse by 75%, Alice Through the Looking Glass 75%, Captain America Civil War 66%.
Warcraft did only fall by 62% there:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/intl/ch...16&wk=25&p=new
Western films run in China on average 3 to 4 weeks with massive drops each week, F7 was the absolute exception there but people took it as the norm somehow.
Hell! F7 had bigger numbers on the second and the third weekend than on the first, that unusual in every regard.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...H&id=fast7.htm

The allegations came up for the second weekend only because there 80 out of the 100 top grossing cinemas were owned by Wanda, with 40 being the norm.
The reason for that was that Wanda heavily promoted the film for that weekend:
http://www.iduobo.com/2016/06/20/wor...age-86595.html
That's why there was no follow up off all these allegations, the numbers are real.