Hillary Clinton Unveils Debt-Free College For All, Adopting Major Bernie Sanders Plan

[Aori]

Which is a function of no state budget. Yay Rauner.

Are you implying it is Rauners fault?

[Deggan]

It's already like this. We get people applying for administrative positions with master's degrees.

That was a simple example, yet a good one. Right now there are many jobs that require only a highschool education, but those jobs would raise their requirement to a college level because there would be far more college graduates and "why hire the stupid people when we can hire the educated."

Also, administrative position != secretary.

[Celista]

That was a simple example, yet a good one. Right now there are many jobs that require only a highschool education, but those jobs would raise their requirement to a college level because there would be far more college graduates and "why hire the stupid people when we can hire the educated."

Also, administrative position != secretary.

You're missing the point of my post, all of our secretaries have bachelor's degrees. I have received resumes from people applying for receptionist, secretarial, other administrative positions with master's degrees.

Making college free won't change this at all. It might make it worse, but it's already what it is.

[I Push Buttons]

Sigh... This stupid crap again.

People who want to go to college find a way to do so. Yes, this would help out a great many who find themselves unable to reasonably pay for it, but it would also create an effect where a bachelors degree was absolutely required for 99% of jobs because it is readily available.

"Oh, you wan't to be my secretary? You need to have gone through four years of college to be skilled enough to do so."

On a side note, I was having this discussion with one of my friends the other day. His parents are paying 100% of his tuition and he is averaging around a 2.3 gpa (C average), and he told me this, "Community college should be free, so that I could go take calc 2 (one of the more difficult classes in a 4 year) without the fear of failing." This attitude would spring up all over the place if college was free. Not only that, but in the case that our taxes are funding it, the government would jump in to make sure that it is "performing as expected"... Such that once the passing rate of many classes start dropping because of this attitude, they would have the curriculum lowered so that everyone can do it. This would turn college into the next tier of high school where nobody wants to be there and only gives 1/10th the effort because they can.

I would really like it if anyone can testify against my statements. Because in my mind free college would help a very small percentage, but become abused by a very large percentage.

To be quite honest, half the kids I knew in college didn't put any effort into it and almost none of them were there for "free" (that is, their parents paying). They themselves were taking the loans and still couldn't give one shit and skipped classes, got shit grades, failed tests, etc. They were just there because the parents and high school counselors told them they needed to go to get a job, nothing more.

Even in the honors programs which I was also in, some kids were just in it for the hell of it, they got straight a's because they were smart, but put no effort into it because they just didn't care... Just one more thing to put on the resume and help get a job.

[Deggan]

You're missing the point of my post, all of our secretaries have bachelor's degrees. I have received resumes from people applying for receptionist, secretarial, other administrative positions with master's degrees.

Making college free won't change this at all. It might make it worse, but it's already what it is.

May I ask what type of company you work for? I am guessing it is a larger firm of 50+ employees that has the ability to choose from a selection of secretarial applicants. Any smaller company isn't exactly in that position.

I believe it is you that is missing the point, so let me use another example. Right now, you can become a car salesman with a high school degree, as long as you have the personality for it. If college was free, it is likely that these employers would start to require a degree in communications or psychology so that their employees have a background in a field that could possibly help them sell vehicles, just because they know that it is readily available.

[I Push Buttons]

You're missing the point of my post, all of our secretaries have bachelor's degrees. I have received resumes from people applying for receptionist, secretarial, other administrative positions with master's degrees.

Making college free won't change this at all. It might make it worse, but it's already what it is.

That's me :'(

I had to apply to about thirty places before one finally offered me a job. They were all "entry level" with the only requirements listed being "speak English and have a high school diploma"... But I had two bachelor's degrees, both with university honors, only ever got a call back from two and a job offer from one.

[Celista]

May I ask what type of company you work for? I am guessing it is a larger firm of 50+ employees that has the ability to choose from a selection of secretarial applicants. Any smaller company isn't exactly in that position.

I am legal counsel for a nonprofit organization in the pacific northwest. I'm not sure why we keep talking over each other, there are very few fields where you can make a living wage without specialized training in a trade or a bachelor's degree. Sales may be the very last place where a degree isn't required, but degrees are still commonplace in sales related to financial services, pharmaceuticals, and a whole host of other sales fields.

- - - Updated - - -

That's me :'(

I had to apply to about thirty places before one finally offered me a job. They were all "entry level" with the only requirements listed being "speak English and have a high school diploma"... But I had two bachelor's degrees, both with university honors, only ever got a call back from two and a job offer from one.

Sorry, cutie. It's rough for almost everyone out there, trust me.

[Deggan]

To be quite honest, half the kids I knew in college didn't put any effort into it and almost none of them were there for "free" (that is, their parents paying). They themselves were taking the loans and still couldn't give one shit and skipped classes, got shit grades, failed tests, etc. They were just there because the parents and high school counselors told them they needed to go to get a job, nothing more.

Even in the honors programs which I was also in, some kids were just in it for the hell of it, they got straight a's because they were smart, but put no effort into it because they just didn't care... Just one more thing to put on the resume and help get a job.

Yeah, I see this often enough myself. Do you think those people being stupid and failing deserve to not have to pay for college though?

[Theodarzna]

That's me :'(

I had to apply to about thirty places before one finally offered me a job. They were all "entry level" with the only requirements listed being "speak English and have a high school diploma"... But I had two bachelor's degrees, both with university honors, only ever got a call back from two and a job offer from one.

The peril of being "Overqualified," which is apparently a thing.

[Celista]

The peril of being "Overqualified," which is apparently a thing.

It's not really being overqualified at this point, it's just the norm now. Although 30 places isn't all that much to have to plow through before being offered a job.

Also, one can be simultaneously "overqualified" education-wise but still be under-qualified due to lack of experience. And everyone asks for experience now, before you actually have experience...

The joys of paid employment.

[Deggan]

I am legal counsel for a nonprofit organization in the pacific northwest. I'm not sure why we keep talking over each other, there are very few fields where you can make a living wage without specialized training in a trade or a bachelor's degree. Sales may be the very last place where a degree isn't required, but degrees are still commonplace in sales related to financial services, pharmaceuticals, and a whole host of other sales fields.

Google "what jobs don't need a degree". You would be surprised the amount of jobs that don't currently require a college education.

Do you not think that some of these jobs would start requiring an education if it was free?

[Celista]

Google "what jobs don't need a degree". You would be surprised the amount of jobs that don't currently require a college education.

Do you not think that some of these jobs would start requiring an education if it was free?

I'm confused as to why we are continuing this conversation, I already stated that these jobs that state that they do not require an education actually do "require" an education.

If you can name some exceptions, go ahead. I know bank tellers and warehouse managers with college degrees.

[Theodarzna]

Yeah, I see this often enough myself. Do you think those people being stupid and failing deserve to not have to pay for college though?

Plenty of people work very hard and pay through the nose,

In the end we have to set aside our morality systems here and look at what is practical and good for the whole, If we do nothing the economic drain caused by student debt will be cancerous to the country. College is the last ticket to the middle class and above, it just simply is that way unless your fortunate enough to have a rich parent(s).

We can cling to problem and just collectively suffer economic decline as a result or choose survival, even if you knew some prick in college who didn't even try, there is some prick at your office who isn't trying and is grossly rewarded, there are pricks whose dads are rich and can pour money on them from birth till the grave.

[Mormolyce]

So has this been costed? How much?

For some reason I believe Bernie when he says it but not Hillary.

Gee I wonder what that reason is.

Hillary is being extremely careless with her campaign promises, considering her circumstances.

Well she is running against a man who's promising to build a wall with magic.

[purebalance]

Theres nothing wrong with higher taxes if you know what they're going towards and agree with it. Why would you not want a more educated workforce in your state?

Because already a large portion of people who go to college drop out. Practically forcing more people to go will lead to either A) watered down content like in high schools currently or B) an even larger drop out rate.

College is NOT for everyone.

[Deggan]

I'm confused as to why we are continuing this conversation, I already stated that these jobs that state that they do not require an education actually do "require" an education.

If you can name some exceptions, go ahead. I know bank tellers and warehouse managers with college degrees.

Sigh... I know people with degrees that bag groceries at supermarkets. That doesn't mean their job requires a degree. I also happen to know a few dental hygienists that don't have degrees...

You obviously don't care about any opinion other than your own. I could track down a thousand people who make over 70k a year without degrees and you would come back at me with some lame excuse. You are the kind of person that isn't fun to talk to, so I'm going to go to bed.

[Theodarzna]

Because already a large portion of people who go to college drop out. Practically forcing more people to go will lead to either A) watered down content like in high schools currently or B) an even larger drop out rate.

College is NOT for everyone.

Considering the utter lack of jobs for non-college grads, what do we do with these people? Gas 'em?

[Celista]

Sigh... I know people with degrees that bag groceries at supermarkets. That doesn't mean their job requires a degree. I also happen to know a few dental hygienists that don't have degrees...

You obviously don't care about any opinion other than your own. I could track down a thousand people who make over 70k a year without degrees and you would come back at me with some lame excuse. You are the kind of person that isn't fun to talk to, so I'm going to go to bed.

I just don't understand the point of the conversation, clearly I stated that I think that the norm is now requiring degrees for jobs that should not require them and you obviously disagree.

Good night Yes I know people making six figures without degrees, they work in tech for the most part.

[Erixi]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b09b4c43c19800

Probably won't get rid of my existing debt though.

[Mormolyce]

It's already like this. We get people applying for administrative positions with master's degrees.

Honestly the idea that college degree = good job is completely wrong.

If you want a job that pays a lot it's often better to work your way up the ladder than spend all that time getting a degree at all.