[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[celinamuna]

Something I've been trying to wrap my head around, if LOTTs is so bad, then why is Bulwark considered to be our worst major trait? I mean, it's a pretty large portion of my overall healing on beta, especially on AoE. I get it might be kind of insignificant on only one target, but LOTTs seems far worse to me. So what gives?

Because LOTT is bad, but on ST Bulwark does half of what LOTT does.

[Donatist]

anyone created a guide yet for legion or a leveling talent breakdown?

[celinamuna]

anyone created a guide yet for legion or a leveling talent breakdown?

I made a guide, but it's still being looked over.

[OrcsRLame]

Because LOTT is bad, but on ST Bulwark does half of what LOTT does.

I think there's a strong argument to be made that if you're looking at what major trait to get first, Bulwark wouldn't be a bad choice because it's not a huge investment of points to get and most of the early content is going to be dungeons. In my experience in dungeons, the trash is what rapes you the hardest, and Bulwark is quite nice on trash. There's also the fact that LOTTs is a hot, which is way more likely to end up as overhealing than an absorb.

[celinamuna]

I think there's a strong argument to be made that if you're looking at what major trait to get first, Bulwark wouldn't be a bad choice because it's not a huge investment of points to get and most of the early content is going to be dungeons. In my experience in dungeons, the trash is what rapes you the hardest, and Bulwark is quite nice on trash. There's also the fact that LOTTs is a hot, which is way more likely to end up as overhealing than an absorb.

I don't think it does enough on AoE for survival, vs extra damage and other traits.

[OrcsRLame]

I don't think it does enough on AoE for survival, vs extra damage and other traits.

Assuming you're right, what about after picking up Tyr's Enforcer? At that point you're looking at spending your next 4 points on Forbearant Faithful and Bastion of Truth vs Resolve of Truth and Bulwark of Order. Forbearant Faithful has not exactly been game changing for me, so is Bastion of Truth really so good that it beats out 3% health and Bulwark?

[Lysozyme]

Block and avoidance haven't been on the same roll since Cataclysm. The only way to CTC cap is to have 100% avoidance, which was last possible in the prepatch to WoD with some shenanigans thanks to crit trinket procs on DKs.

[celinamuna]

Assuming you're right, what about after picking up Tyr's Enforcer? At that point you're looking at spending your next 4 points on Forbearant Faithful and Bastion of Truth vs Resolve of Truth and Bulwark of Order. Forbearant Faithful has not exactly been game changing for me, so is Bastion of Truth really so good that it beats out 3% health and Bulwark?

Originally I've had Bulwark prior to LoTT, so i'll look into it more.

[Seani]

I'm impressed because factually i think this post is 100% wrong.

To expand on that : With about 6k mastery/crit you block 25.6% of attacks, and avoid about 18%.
Block and Parry/Miss/Dodge are also separate rolls, so that's also wrong.

As for youtube, testing 2 talents by letting 2 mobs hit you for 77 sec is probably some of the most lulzy way of testing talents that i've seen.

Anyway, here's physical damage comparison between BH and HS :
http://i.imgur.com/DooXXsH.png

If it's factually wrong why are you impressed? Gbty listed as 50% HS adds 10% block.

[pung9]

With the removal of bonus armor whats the stat priority going to look like come the pre-patch on Tuesday? Will it still be the same order just with out bonus armor?

[celinamuna]

If it's factually wrong why are you impressed? Gbty listed as 50% HS adds 10% block.

Cuz normally people can't be wrong about so many things at once.

And no it does not : http://i.imgur.com/dARfO2B.png

- - - Updated - - -

With the removal of bonus armor whats the stat priority going to look like come the pre-patch on Tuesday? Will it still be the same order just with out bonus armor?

For survival : Vers > Haste / Mastery > Crit
For DPS : Haste/Crit > Mastery > Vers

[Gallahadd]

Gbty listed as 50% HS adds 10% block.

IIRC, it doesn't add 50% block, it increases your block chance by 50%. So say you had 10% before, you'd have 15% after.

[Faithpaladin]

Q: How does the diminishing returns on Last Defender for pallys gets calculated?

A: 1 - 0.97^TargetCount

Can someone explain to me what this means for Last Defender? I don't understand math =(

[Seani]

IIRC, it doesn't add 50% block, it increases your block chance by 50%. So say you had 10% before, you'd have 15% after.

Oh ok, it is multiplicative rather than additive.

- - - Updated - - -

Cuz normally people can't be wrong about so many things at once.

And no it does not : http://i.imgur.com/dARfO2B.png

- - - Updated - - -



For survival : Vers > Haste / Mastery > Crit
For DPS : Haste/Crit > Mastery > Vers

I made one mistake and it's go time for you now lol.

[Adaren]

Can someone explain to me what this means for Last Defender? I don't understand math =(

If you're tanking 1 target, you take 3% less damage.
If you're tanking 2 targets, you take 5.9% less damage. (1- (.97)^2)
If you're tanking 3 targets, you take 8.7% less damage. (1- (.97)^3)
4 targets, 11.5%
5 targets, 14.1%
etc.

Basically, you take approximately 3% reduced damage per mob for small mob counts, but there are some diminishing returns at higher mob counts. Because if it was just a flat 3% damage reduction per mob, then you'd be invincible while tanking 34 mobs.

I don't know if this applies to the DPS part of the talent or not.

[celinamuna]

I made one mistake and it's go time for you now lol.

1)Linking some ???¿¿¿ youtube video to show that HS > BH
2)Arguing for 60% Block
3)Not knowing that even with 60% block, it would still get DR'ed way lower
4)CTC Cap ?

[Deleted]

I made one mistake and it's go time for you now lol.

If you're going to confidently say things that are very--and obviously--wrong in a thread full of people who know better, expect to be called out.

[Seani]

1)Linking some ???¿¿¿ youtube video to show that HS > BH
2)Arguing for 60% Block
3)Not knowing that even with 60% block, it would still get DR'ed way lower
4)CTC Cap ?

there was a mitigation cap for wotlk at 102.4%. Someone asked for the video. How much free time do you have on your hands?

[Leblue]

there was a mitigation cap for wotlk at 102.4%. Someone asked for the video. How much free time do you have on your hands?

That's fine and all, but WotLK was a long time ago. The video is fine, and Lim always makes time to provide "feedback".

S'alright that you made the mistake, just don't be surprised when you get roasted here without going in and hard checking stuff when making claims that you can hit CTC cap (which hasn't been a thing since Cataclysm). In this case, take your lumps and move on since trying to defend yourself will merely "encourage" others to ream you harder.

[Deleted]

there was a mitigation cap for wotlk at 102.4%. Someone asked for the video. How much free time do you have on your hands?

It's got nothing to do with free time. This is base-line information for most people here, it takes half a minute to debunk your statements. It actually took me longer to make sure debunked meant what I thought it did than it would to debunk said statements. Not that I have to, Lim is top-quality at doing so and Lazel adds the required amount of flavor to the mix.