Unnarmed man lying on ground with arms up shot by police

[Shaede]

You treat every call about a man with a gun the same, he has a gun until you know he doesn't. At that point he wasn't searched so your question is worthless.

Well I don't know where you got your law enforcement training but this is entirely untrue... especially when one of the people involved has been identified as autistic. I certainly hope you are not a cop.

[Svifnymr]

Negligent is intentional. Accidental obviously isnt. You dont get to have an accident in this situation though. It's one thing while you're loading weapons or at the range, but when you're pointing weapons at people you need to know wtf you're doing. Finger off the trigger until you intent to shoot, etc. With all the anti-cop shit we have now, we dont need idiots doing stupid shit right now.

Like I said though, if the cop was in a car accident, even if at fault, no one would be talking about filing charges unless there was malice or other factors. Witchblade maintains that people are criminally charged for negligent discharges, but I've not seen it in Florida. Accident is an accident. Though, I mean, I agree with you. The cop did wrong (either intentionally or accidentally) and I'm not saying leave him unpenalized. I just think the calls to have him imprisoned (sometimes "for a long time" or similar) are misguided.

[Shaede]

And the police were experts at handling autistic people since.... when exactly? They aren't realistically able to handle every given situation.

He says he's his therapist. At which point the police should start putting two and two together.

"Hey, this man is his therapist. Fine, you calm him down. If the situation escalates, we'll take care of it".

Co-operation is hard, mate.

Exactly! I work with the autistic population. We have kids run away all the time, half of them are tracked for elopement. Law enforcement is supposed to be trained to deal with this population very differently since one of the highlights, especially in non-verbal low IQ individuals is that they do not understand how to navigate many social situations regardless if it's with a cop or whatever. This just showed the cops bias and horrible ability to properly assess a situation. Hopefully he will not be a cop much longer.

[Svifnymr]

Or its just a big group of people who think Cop-On-Black crime is bad. Better training and less AR-15's would yield less dead people (black one's especially). Also proper taxation and funding so they don't turn into predators constantly on the hunt for ticket money.

I was generally referring to their organizational system rather than their "message", since their message can vary quite a bit among the 60+ chapters. The AR15 comment is a bit off though, since replacing shotguns with AR15's isn't really making things more dangerous, just a perception thing. Like wearing armor or other protective gear is seen as "militarization". I'm not even aware of the AR15's being used in any of the big press shootings, most of which occur during a scuffle that would make an AR useless.

I do agree on the proper funding thing, though obviously tickets do serve as a penalty it's just out of hand in some places. By the same token, these "poor urban" areas that are more of the problem are also lower on the tax intake.

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This just showed the cops bias and horrible ability to properly assess a situation. Hopefully he will not be a cop much longer.

We actually never see them interact with the autistic guy, do we? I know there was an after-picture with both fellows handcuffed on the ground, but we don't see anything that happens between the edited video released by the lawyer and when that actually happened, nor any sort of time frame.

[belfpala]

In this thread, LockedOut seems to think I should have been shot last night. My girl (certified nurse) and I came across a drunk guy that I happened to know (former employee) stumbling around drunk. Talked him into sitting at a bus stop until I figured out how to get him home when a cop rolled up. 911 call for drunken disorderly, but he gets there to see three people. What should he do?

Exactly what he did. He announced his presence, my girl and I explained the situation, and he let me go off to get my car to bring the drunk guy home. The cop did not respond violently despite the fact that none of us could show our hands because we were keeping the drunk guy on a bus bench.

[Bildur]

He decided to interfere in an active 911 call after being told several times not to, of course you don't see that part of the video.

Man you are one sick puppy. So helping an autistic kid means you deseverve to be shot now? God help Amerika because it sure needs some serious help!

[Tinykong]

Shooting people randomly with or without a racism chaser is pretty fucking terroristic. Having "authority" doesn't make you right.

The old "Oh yeah? Well they do it too!" excuse.

[Ivanstone]

The old "Oh yeah? Well they do it too!" excuse.

One group is supposed to keep the peace. The other group is supposed to live their lives in peace.

I'll let you figure out which is which. Its almost like one of them is paid to uphold a certain standard.

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I do agree on the proper funding thing, though obviously tickets do serve as a penalty it's just out of hand in some places. By the same token, these "poor urban" areas that are more of the problem are also lower on the tax intake.

They have a lower tax rate due to segregation. For example, St. Louis county has 113 different municipalities in it. Some are shit holes like Ferguson who don't get a properly funded police force and in this case enacted an especially aggressive ticketing racket. Other neighbouring municipalities do the same. Thing is the people who live in these less municipalities often don't work there, they work somewhere else because its really one big city where richer sub-communities cut themselves away legally but still reap the benefit of lower paid workers. They just don't want to take care of the parts of town where these workers live.

Another example is that dude who has killed in MN. Despite being legally entitled to be armed (thanks NRA), he was shot dead by a panicky cop. The entire event only occurred because the cops were especially aggressive in ticketing and viewed minorities as an easy target. Again small municipality who should be sharing more services with its neighbours because they are really one bigger town or city.

[belfpala]

Another example is that dude who has killed in MN. Despite being legally entitled to be armed (thanks NRA), he was shot dead by a panicky cop. The entire event only occurred because the cops were especially aggressive in ticketing and viewed minorities as an easy target. Again small municipality who should be sharing more services with its neighbours because they are really one bigger town or city.

Exactly. On that front, I've lived in that area most of my life. That tiny ass district is between the capitol of the state and two major suburbs. The only job the police have there, as far as I've seen is giving speeding tickets. As the main through way goes from 45 mph to 25 mph and back to 45 mph in about a two mile section.

[Actarius]

You really don't understand, do you?
The police interfered on a medical matter. The guy's therapist was already there. Read the article before you keep spouting bullshit.

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Gun violence is still down from the 90s and it's still on a decline. I feel bad for you if you eat up the shit the mainstream media feeds you.

Never said I ate up the shit, nor did I claim gun violence isn't declining, but thanks for shoving your words down my throat, and then arguing against them. It lacks any form of intellectual integrity.

I'm well aware of the downward trend in gun violence, which has maintained relatively stable numbers since 2000. And I don't even read/listen to media. It's all full of garbage, and media outlets that aren't 'mainstream' are even more polarized and full of agendas than mainstream media.

Only way to get real information is to look at the source of said information, not some random news networks interpretation of said information.

[Poppincaps]

People actually defending the cops on this

Highly doubt this is an issue of racial profiling though. If it is then it must be a SUPER extreme case to be so fearful of a black man that you need to shoot him when he's laying on the ground with his arms up. Seems like it was an accident. Maybe the autistic guy made a sudden movement that startled the cop and they let one off. Both the cop and the man are lucky he didn't get killed.

[Svifnymr]

Police Union guy says the cop was trying to shoot at the Autistic Guy, missed with his 3 rifle shots, hit the other guy by mistake with 1. Looks like I was wrong in what I figured, though it was one of my backup theories.

[Mellrod]

Let the police do their job you won't risk getting shot.

Are you implying the therapist should have backed off instead of trying to explain the situation and calm down the autistic man? Should he have left the lost autistic man alone to meltdown and get shot by the police? From the sounds of it, he was already melting down with the therapist there, it could've gone much worse without him.

I think the risk is well worth it given that he was trying to protect an autistic person from being shot or worse. The "let the police do their job argument" is so silly when it's not that black and white (excuse the phrasing). It's no justification at all given this situation, I mean the cop didn't even know why he shot them for fuck's sake. He sure did a good 'job' there. There's no denying that no one should've walked away injured from that situation.

[Fenixhart]

People actually defending the cops on this

Highly doubt this is an issue of racial profiling though. If it is then it must be a SUPER extreme case to be so fearful of a black man that you need to shoot him when he's laying on the ground with his arms up. Seems like it was an accident. Maybe the autistic guy made a sudden movement that startled the cop and they let one off. Both the cop and the man are lucky he didn't get killed.

Like this would be the first time Police would have murdered a Black person who was unarmed and harmless

[Witchblade77]

Like I said though, if the cop was in a car accident, even if at fault, no one would be talking about filing charges unless there was malice or other factors. Witchblade maintains that people are criminally charged for negligent discharges, but I've not seen it in Florida. Accident is an accident. Though, I mean, I agree with you. The cop did wrong (either intentionally or accidentally) and I'm not saying leave him unpenalized. I just think the calls to have him imprisoned (sometimes "for a long time" or similar) are misguided.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...rge-weapon.htm

A prosecutor must show you intentionally fired the weapon, but does not have to show you did so maliciously or with the intention to hurt someone or damage property

especially pertinent part


and since we are talking florida - here's an infamous case of negligent discharge being punished http://www.aol.com/article/2015/01/2...ease/21136151/

and before you say "this is different" its not THAT different. officer was aiming at the guy. officer discharged his weapon when it wasn't warranted. officer actualy hit a person. in above case - she didn't hit anyone and was still sentenced due to reckless endangerment of bystanders - her children

[ati87]

Police Union guy says the cop was trying to shoot at the Autistic Guy, missed with his 3 rifle shots, hit the other guy by mistake with 1. Looks like I was wrong in what I figured, though it was one of my backup theories.

Not making the story better though, killing/shooting a sick person doesn't really sound that much better.

[Dug]

Police Union guy says the cop was trying to shoot at the Autistic Guy, missed with his 3 rifle shots, hit the other guy by mistake with 1. Looks like I was wrong in what I figured, though it was one of my backup theories.

That's just as bad imo. Why would you shoot an unarmed autistic person with a toy truck? The myth that mentally challenged people have the strength of 10 people needs to die

[PACOX]

Exactly. On that front, I've lived in that area most of my life. That tiny ass district is between the capitol of the state and two major suburbs. The only job the police have there, as far as I've seen is giving speeding tickets. As the main through way goes from 45 mph to 25 mph and back to 45 mph in about a two mile section.

I have to drive through something like that. Goes from 70 -> 55 for probably not even 1.5 miles and then back to 70. Cop clocked my ~3 miles from the speed change doing 70 then his buddy pulled me over after I past the 55 sign. He then tried to accuse me of having stolen car because despite showing current insurance, 4 years of registrations, my current registration sticker, and asking him to run my plate, he got bent out of shape because I didn't have the paper for my current registration (found out that moment that I had thrown it away by mistake when cleaning my car).

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http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...rge-weapon.htm



especially pertinent part


and since we are talking florida - here's an infamous case of negligent discharge being punished http://www.aol.com/article/2015/01/2...ease/21136151/

and before you say "this is different" its not THAT different. officer was aiming at the guy. officer discharged his weapon when it wasn't warranted. officer actualy hit a person. in above case - she didn't hit anyone and was still sentenced due to reckless endangerment of bystanders - her children

Sadly, even though you are technically right, courts tend to favor the police. You have to get lucky and find the right judge and juror or have a cop thats a blatant repeat offender/committed a clear premeditated crime.

[ati87]

Like I said though, if the cop was in a car accident, even if at fault, no one would be talking about filing charges unless there was malice or other factors. Witchblade maintains that people are criminally charged for negligent discharges, but I've not seen it in Florida. Accident is an accident. Though, I mean, I agree with you. The cop did wrong (either intentionally or accidentally) and I'm not saying leave him unpenalized. I just think the calls to have him imprisoned (sometimes "for a long time" or similar) are misguided.

Uhm car accident isn't the same as aiming a gun and then pulling the trigger.

[lockedout]

He was the helper of the guy, he was supposed to be at his side - he didn't interfere.

He just happened to work at the place the kid walked away from.