Flat tax support, arguments for or against it?

[Theinquisition]

People already do this.

And get 7.25 with no benefits.

"Well get better skills and negotiate better deals for yourself!" is generally the lazy argument against this, which doesn't fix the problem that more and more jobs are becoming 7.25 with no benefits. And if you get skills and try to negotiate better wages, you don't get hired and the guy hires someone else willing to work for 7.25.

Meanwhile we have a class of people in the US who oppose and stop any and all efforts to create more government positions that pay well and have good packages. That having well paying government jobs at the cost of slightly higher taxes is socialism and therefor evil. That the people who go to occupy wall street because they lost their jobs are "lazy and unskilled".

Then they lost their jobs and it's the fault of the mexicans and the chinese and the liberals. And they want to vote for Trump to get their jobs back. Not realizing that the forces that lost them their jobs are the same forces that took the jobs from the OWS people.

Well, if they had skills and education worth more than 7.25 an hour they could negotiate a higher wage. Just because someone thinks they deserve more doesn't mean they do.

[Deleted]

In what sense is the USA doing "worse"? Economic growth is stronger, per capita, when you control for inflation. By pretty much any measure, the USA is economically stronger in 2016 than it was in the '50s and '60s.

You don't get to just invent your own facts and ignore reality like that.

Listen, there is no point in going back and forth with this. We obviously disagree and since my views are pretty far right and I doubt anything you say can change them (as I couldnt care less about the greater good and always value the individual more).. and visa versa, lets just agree to disagree.

[Kyriani]

Well, if they had skills and education worth more than 7.25 an hour they could negotiate a higher wage. Just because someone thinks they deserve more doesn't mean they do.

But everyone deserves to make enough to live. That's why the minimum wage exists and was supposed to be "living wage". The minimum wage has not kept up with inflation over the years. And it needs to catch up.

[Endus]

Show me anyone (who isnt crazy) who would vote for someone who promises higher taxes. Newsflash.. people can give money away if they want without having to wait till theyre taxed as is.

Trudeau campaigned on raising taxes, in our most recent election here in Canada, and won in a comparative landslide.

Yet again, you're just ignoring reality.

[krunksmash]

Well, if they had skills and education worth more than 7.25 an hour they could negotiate a higher wage. Just because someone thinks they deserve more doesn't mean they do.

probelm is out system is set up so that getting the education and training to make you worth more then 7.25 is treated as a privilege not a basic right. meaning a large portion of the population simply cant afford to get the training.

[Endus]

Listen, there is no point in going back and forth with this. We obviously disagree and since my views are pretty far right and I doubt anything you say can change them (as I couldnt care less about the greater good and always value the individual more).. and visa versa, lets just agree to disagree.

It's not that your views are different. It's that every single justification you have provided for them is factually incorrect. And with the above, you're simply stating that you don't care what the facts are, because your blind faith in your ideology will trump the reality, in your view.

And that's pretty much exactly the problem.

[Daedius]

What a bloody stupid concept...

[Bollocks]

Trudeau campaigned on raising taxes, in our most recent election here in Canada, and won in a comparative landslide.

Yet again, you're just ignoring reality.

Well TBF Trudeau could say he would kill puppies and it would still sound good to the public.

[Cthulhu 2020]

See here's what I don't get, the school of thought where "Well I had it hard and no one else should have it easier than me!"

I see this happen in so. many. situations.

People who have gotten in through our borken as fuck immigration system see proposals to fix our immigration system and go NO WAY NOBODY CAN HAVE IT EASIER THAN ME. But that isn't the only one. It happens in a huge multitude of situations where someone has gone through something and it is proposed that it be made easier so people don't have to go through ridiculous amounts of work to get elsewhere. It's been society's goal to make things easier going forward. And yet we have people who want things to be just as hard or harder for others.

My grandparents generation worked so they could make the world easier and better off for their children and their grandchildren. Now I rarely hear that these days.

Of course people shouldn't be lazy, they should do what it takes to get something. But as it stands, a lot of our systems are overly taxing on people and do not give just compensation. And then people start justifying it with "Well that's what the market thinks you're worth!"

[Theinquisition]

But everyone deserves to make enough to live. That's why the minimum wage exists and was supposed to be "living wage". The minimum wage has not kept up with inflation over the years. And it needs to catch up.

I believe you can live in minimum wage, it just means you will have to have roommates and live Spartan.

[BannedForViews]

I am against it because poor people have no money and rich people can afford to pay more.

It took the first two responses to see massive ignorance on this subject. No one who has EVER suggested a flat tax in the US has suggested one that didn't have a much healthier tax free deduction than the current tax structure, or any one we've had in like the last 70 years.

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But everyone deserves to make enough to live. That's why the minimum wage exists and was supposed to be "living wage". The minimum wage has not kept up with inflation over the years. And it needs to catch up.

No one deserves anything. The minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage, that is a brand new bullshit idea. Minimum wage is for teenagers. Also the minimum wage was NEVER kept up to inflation.

[Theinquisition]

probelm is out system is set up so that getting the education and training to make you worth more then 7.25 is treated as a privilege not a basic right. meaning a large portion of the population simply cant afford to get the training.

Look, it takes three things to be successful in the U.S.

1. Graduate high school

2. Don't have a kid until your married

3. Hold a job.

That's it.

He'll that's not even from me, that's from the Brookings institution, a liberal think tank.

[BannedForViews]

probelm is out system is set up so that getting the education and training to make you worth more then 7.25 is treated as a privilege not a basic right. meaning a large portion of the population simply cant afford to get the training.

Everyone is able to graduate high school. High school grads make more than 7.25 an hour.

[JohnBrown1917]

Nope, I think anyone who puts collectivism above individual rights and is for using force to promote unfairness for "the greater good" is a commie.

Red scare still not over in the US? Are you by any chance part of the group that thinks obama is a muslim socialist?




But don't mind me, ill just continue being an evil commie and stealing your money

[krunksmash]

It took the first two responses to see massive ignorance on this subject. No one who has EVER suggested a flat tax in the US has suggested one that didn't have a much healthier tax free deduction than the current tax structure, or any one we've had in like the last 70 years.

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No one deserves anything. The minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage, that is a brand new bullshit idea. Minimum wage is for teenagers. Also the minimum wage was NEVER kept up to inflation.

This is incorrect. it WAS infact created as a minimum living wage, it was created to end worker exploitation along with the 40 hr work week and a whole slue of other regulations, the first minimum wage was set at an amount that a man working 40hr/wk would be able to afford to cover the basic needs, shelter, food, utilities, cloths.

[I Push Buttons]

It took the first two responses to see massive ignorance on this subject. No one who has EVER suggested a flat tax in the US has suggested one that didn't have a much healthier tax free deduction than the current tax structure, or any one we've had in like the last 70 years.

How so?

If the very poor are excluded from this flat tax, as they already are from progressive taxes, then what does it accomplish other than lowering taxes on the wealthy?

Which, as we have already seen from most Republican tax breaks, accomplishes literally fucking nothing? Apart from increasing deficit spending that is, since Republicans hardly cut any spending when they cut revenue...

[krunksmash]

Everyone is able to graduate high school. High school grads make more than 7.25 an hour.

don't know what fantasy you are living in. with a high school degree you are lucky to even get a job and its a cold day in hell if that job is more than your states minimum wage ( some states are higher than 7.25 )

[Kyriani]

It took the first two responses to see massive ignorance on this subject. No one who has EVER suggested a flat tax in the US has suggested one that didn't have a much healthier tax free deduction than the current tax structure, or any one we've had in like the last 70 years.

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No one deserves anything. The minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage, that is a brand new bullshit idea. Minimum wage is for teenagers. Also the minimum wage was NEVER kept up to inflation.

BULLSHIT

Sorry but you can't just rewrite history.

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country."
-President Franklin Delano Roosevelt who called the Fair Labor Standards Act, the most important piece of New Deal legislation since the Social Security Act of 1935.

The whole point of the minimum wage was to provide a living wage for adults not for teenagers.

[Masark]

Sorry but you can't just rewrite history.

Sure you can. Just get on school boards and mandate textbooks that follow your ideology.

[krunksmash]

Not even close. Yes, there are jobs out there that a high school grad can get that pay more than minimum wage but the vast majority of jobs available to them are in the food service industry and I guarantee you most of those don't start above minimum wage.

also only thoes that are managements pets get more than minimum everyone else only get the minimum raise required by law/ company policy which in some places is 0