No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[bufferunderrun]

About the "don't like it don't use it" argument that's been popping up again: it's a cop-out. It means you think you know best about how WoW should be designed but don't want to actually think about game design. It'd be valid if this were an incidental feature like a cosmetic or toy that doesn't impact other systems, but flight is transformative on how players world quest and and use their gathering professions. In those contexts the limitations of travel are as much a part of the goal-challenge-reward loop as trash mobs are in a dungeon.

Trash mobs are a good example. Most players understand the role that trash plays in the overall experience of a dungeon. We want trash to be in the game. This doesn't mean we don't skip trash at every opportunity, or would choose to do it for its own sake if it were optional and had no other incentive. This isn't some paradox, it's a result of WoW being a videogame where the fun comes from the push and pull of the player having an objective the game designers putting obstacles in the way of achieving it. When we're talking about dungeon content nobody suddenly pretends that WoW is a freeform sandbox game where player choice is of singular importance.

So why for world content? Maybe because historically world content has been of so much less relevance than dungeon content. People have been trained to see it as an extension of the game menu rather than the actual game. But that isn't the case anymore and any argument for or against flying needs to be about game design.

if we are talking about game design we in this very thread have offered many alternatives to freeform flying, but no flyier simply shrug it behind the excuse that 3d combat won't work and bla bla bla, so any solution offered beside removing it is simply rejected.

The reality is that some peoples here are doing a crusade against flying, much like some are doing it against lfr/lfd, against alts etc, based on ideological factual reasons and a blind acceptance of anything the devs decide.

We asked that blizzard move it's ass and redesign flying and design content for flying it's not a QQ is a request to change a system that seem to generate problems without taking the easy solution to remove it.

But peoples like Ordinator won't accept anything beside removal and continue their gestapo's campaign to remove other peoples fun, adhering to the concept that "i don't like it and thus should be removed for anyone else".

I know that peoples in videogame always seek the easy way (and that speak volume when peoples tell me that what the community want is challenging content) but that isn't a good reason to remove something, blizzard should find a balance so peoples could have a decent choice btw ground and flying, right now we don't have this balance and blizzard don't seem interested in finding it.

[Idoru]

In other words.. you have no source. It's okay. I knew you didn't because there is no source. Nothing but pure confirmation bias on your behalf.

Do you not know what sarcasm means?

Or do you really need a source for them saying the game would be better without flying?

[Cthulhu 2020]

That problem is still there.

With the nerf of toys and removal of goblin with goblin glider kit it is obvious they are trying to slow down players to stretch out players staying with the game. But it is having the reverse effect and burning players out. So, when will flying be added to avoid a repeat of WoD's failures? Are we witnessing a repeat scenario where they will have to do an about face because of mass exodus? Seems likely at this point.

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My bro offered me to buy Legion for me and I said pass. I rather my bro buy me a good supply of cheese cake and carrot cake instead for the upcoming holiday season.

Yeah they nerfed the kite from a 2 min cool down to 15, but I literally used one of my goblin gliders this morning g before work and it still has a 3 min cooldown. What are you smoking?

[Ordinator]

Do you not know what sarcasm means?

This is what you said:

And the reason they flip flopped on their decision to remove it was because they think the game is actually better with flying ...

I ask for a source. I knew there was no way you could give one. Then all of a sudden you were being sarcastic. Pro flying in a nutshell.

[Cthulhu 2020]

if we are talking about game design we in this very thread have offered many alternatives to freeform flying, but no flyier simply shrug it behind the excuse that 3d combat won't work and bla bla bla, so any solution offered beside removing it is simply rejected.

The reality is that some peoples here are doing a crusade against flying, much like some are doing it against lfr/lfd, against alts etc, based on ideological factual reasons and a blind acceptance of anything the devs decide.

We asked that blizzard move it's ass and redesign flying and design content for flying it's not a QQ is a request to change a system that seem to generate problems without taking the easy solution to remove it.

But peoples like Ordinator won't accept anything beside removal and continue their gestapo's campaign to remove other peoples fun, adhering to the concept that "i don't like it and thus should be removed for anyone else".

I know that peoples in videogame always seek the easy way (and that speak volume when peoples tell me that what the community want is challenging content) but that isn't a good reason to remove something, blizzard should find a balance so peoples could have a decent choice btw ground and flying, right now we don't have this balance and blizzard don't seem interested in finding it.

I'd love to see flight return with interesting mechanics designed around it. As it was, it had just become a way for players to lazily quest and play. Dive bombing an assassination target in a keep filled with guards was incredibly immersion breaking... and I would be fine with flight if many mob areas had ways for them to shoot you down once you got close, but they tried that in BC. Players hated being shot down. They wanted convenience without having to fight their way through stuff.

Some people say "we'll those mobs aren't important so it makes the experience tedious". My argument is that if you're going for a kill on a high profile target, shouldnt he have hordes of minions protecting him, and minions able to shoot people down?

I'm all for flight... as long as it comes with interesting mechanics, and isn't just lazy play.

But there are many in here who do not want interesting mechanics attached to flight. They don't want to be able to be shot down. They want enemies to stupidly stand there while you fly over them and kill their general.

[TyrianFC]

The funniest thing about this thread is the pro-flyers have already lost the debate and indeed war in their crusade for flying months ago.

Legion will be repeat ing flying in the same manner as WoD... and just when they finally get their precious flying back again in a future/late-expansion patch.... it'll be taken away soon again thereafter ready for the next expansion...

And the cycle will repeat =)

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But peoples like Ordinator won't accept anything beside removal and continue their gestapo's campaign to remove other peoples fun, adhering to the concept that "i don't like it and thus should be removed for anyone else".

You're doing the very thing you're accusing him of - in reverse. You're saying you like flying and insist it should be in the game (despite the myriad of ways it decreases the quality of the game). Your campaign for 'fun' (a game with flying) most certainly will lesson the fun other players experience who want a world of people in the sandbox, not flying over it.

[Ordinator]

But peoples like Ordinator won't accept anything beside removal and continue their gestapo's campaign to remove other peoples fun, adhering to the concept that "i don't like it and thus should be removed for anyone else".

People like Ordinator understand this game isn't design by democracy. Even if it was, you would surely be on the losing end. Just because you think something is good for the game doesn't make it true.

[Connll]

Clearly, Blizzard thinks the same because they did it in WoD and they've decided to repeat it for Legion, which suggests a lot of people probably prefer it this way.

Not long before 6.2, one of the devs gave an interview to a third-party, rather obscure website, in which they said that they would NOT bring Flight back for WoD or ANY future updates/content.

The forums EXPLODED, to put it mildly. And then about 2 weeks later, they reversed their decision of no-flight ever again. Please notice, Blizzard reversing a decision due to fan outcry is something that happened 3 or 4 times in its entire existance as a company. One of them was the RealID.

So, since Blizz actually took a step back, I can confidently say that the number of people that consider no-flying a deal breaker is significant.

Patch finder? Some dev with authority being spiteful towards the players who "defied" him. Look to further than the nerfs to the Kite in Legion, if you want an example.

Do you have any more questions?

[Idoru]

People like Ordinator understand this game isn't design by democracy.

Then please explain why, after telling us how the game would be better without flying, they flip flopped.

[Ordinator]

Then please explain why, after telling us how the game would be better without flying, they flip flopped.

You're having a really hard time understanding that nobody knows their exact reasoning. Even you can't source that after claiming to know for a fact:

And the reason they flip flopped on their decision to remove it was because they think the game is actually better with flying ...

But if you're under some delusion that there was a massive revolt from a massive number of pro flyers at that point.. ask yourself why there is no flying in the game right now. Obviously there aren't enough fly babies to change their design course.

[Idoru]

You're having a really hard time understanding that nobody knows their exact reasoning. Even you can't source that after claiming to know for a fact:


But if you're under some delusion that there was a massive revolt from a massive number of pro flyers at that point.. ask yourself why there is no flying in the game right now. Obviously there aren't enough fly babies to change their design course.

Here, I'll try to make it easy:

Blizzard: No more flying, ever!
Players: We want flying!
Blizzard: OK, you can have it back after jumping through some hoops.

If you don't know the difference between 'ever' (what they wanted) and 'after a while' (what we have now) then I really can't help you.

[Deleted]

People like Ordinator understand this game isn't design by democracy. Even if it was, you would surely be on the losing end. Just because you think something is good for the game doesn't make it true.

Of course it's designed for democracy. If out of 100 players only ou hate flying you can bet your ass flying will be in the game in some shape or form.

[SL1200]

People like Ordinator understand this game isn't design by democracy. Even if it was, you would surely be on the losing end. Just because you think something is good for the game doesn't make it true.

You haven't noticed? This game is designed by forum complainers. The loudest complainers who write the best posts are the ones designing the game.

[Idoru]

Of course it's designed for democracy. If out of 100 players only ou hate flying you can bet your ass flying will be in the game in some shape or form.

Yeah, it's not like it's rocket science.

[Mafic]

Not long before 6.2, one of the devs gave an interview to a third-party, rather obscure website, in which they said that they would NOT bring Flight back for WoD or ANY future updates/content.

The forums EXPLODED, to put it mildly. And then about 2 weeks later, they reversed their decision of no-flight ever again. Please notice, Blizzard reversing a decision due to fan outcry is something that happened 3 or 4 times in its entire existance as a company. One of them was the RealID.

So, since Blizz actually took a step back, I can confidently say that the number of people that consider no-flying a deal breaker is significant.

Patch finder? Some dev with authority being spiteful towards the players who "defied" him. Look to further than the nerfs to the Kite in Legion, if you want an example.

Do you have any more questions?

Blizzard is scared non casuals will not stick it out till patch 7.2 so they restrict player progression as much as possible with artificial time sinks. Patch 7.1 brings Kara but it is closer to a mini raid and we do not know how casual players will react to it.

By the time the first raid tier with raid gear rolls around in January/February we are looking at nearly 5-6 months of players outgearing Legion's Broken Isles and probably no flight in sight.

So, we are looking at a situation where flight not even come with patch 7.2 which would be a blow to the body directly of Blizzards bean counters and the expansion would not even be one year old.

That is a lot of lost money from micro transactions where players choose to not buy new flying mounts, because they can't use or enjoy their new purchases in the new and current expansion.

[Dhrizzle]

Not long before 6.2, one of the devs gave an interview to a third-party, rather obscure website, in which they said that they would NOT bring Flight back for WoD or ANY future updates/content.

The forums EXPLODED, to put it mildly. And then about 2 weeks later, they reversed their decision of no-flight ever again. Please notice, Blizzard reversing a decision due to fan outcry is something that happened 3 or 4 times in its entire existance as a company. One of them was the RealID.

So, since Blizz actually took a step back, I can confidently say that the number of people that consider no-flying a deal breaker is significant.

Patch finder? Some dev with authority being spiteful towards the players who "defied" him. Look to further than the nerfs to the Kite in Legion, if you want an example.

Do you have any more questions?

The reaction to "no flight ever" showed there was a sizable number of players happy (or at least content or ambivalent) to do without flight in current content as long as they get to fly eventually, in other words people who are happy (or at least content or ambivalent) with pathfinder, or as you would call them "anti-fliers."

You're just bitter about the game not being developed to your exact specifications so you're creating accusations of spite instead of accepting that not everyone shares you're taste.

[Connll]

Blizzard is scared non casuals will not stick it out till patch 7.2 so they restrict player progression as much as possible with artificial time sinks. Patch 7.1 brings Kara but it is closer to a mini raid and we do not know how casual players will react to it.

By the time the first raid tier with raid gear rolls around in January/February we are looking at nearly 5-6 months of players outgearing Legion's Broken Isles and probably no flight in sight.

How are the threads complaining about no-flight going in the official forums?

So, we are looking at a situation where flight not even come with patch 7.2 which would be a blow to the body directly of Blizzards bean counters and the expansion would not even be one year old.

Not necessarily. You see, raiders are a minority. In fact, even LFR users are a minority if compared to the more casual crowd. Chances are high that, once the first 30/45 days pass, the number of people unsubcribing will get higher and higher.

The only thing we can´t know with a high degree of certainty are how many will write "no flying" as their reason for leaving. However, considering what happened in WoD, the Higher management might force the developers hand again, and restore Flight.

However, This line of speculation has more uncertainty than I would like.

That is a lot of lost money from micro transactions where players choose to not buy new flying mounts, because they can't use or enjoy their new purchases in the new and current expansion.

That should a huge red flag, shoudn´t it? As far as I know, the store mounts do NOT warn you that you can´t use them for flight in current content.

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The reaction to "no flight ever" showed there was a sizable number of players happy (or at least content or ambivalent) to do without flight in current content as long as they get to fly eventually, in other words people who are happy (or at least content or ambivalent) with pathfinder, or as you would call them "anti-fliers."

Yes, thats exactly why the devs kept their vision of no flying ever again. They certaily did not do a 180 degree´s turn in record time.

There is no flight in Ba Sing Se, I mean, WoW, right?

You're just bitter about the game not being developed to your exact specifications so you're creating accusations of spite instead of accepting that not everyone shares you're taste.

Do you have something more substantial than projection?

[TyrianFC]

ask yourself why there is no flying in the game right now. Obviously there aren't enough fly babies to change their design course.

Theres noflying in the game right now because the game is simply better without it. Whether pro-flying clowns realise this or not is another story, but then again, most of them wouldnt know whats good for the game / good game design if it was staring them in the face.

I hate to break it to you pro-flying groupies here, but Ordinator is right in every point hes making, and you're all looking pretty silly grasping at straws trying to argue laughable points back.

[Deleted]

There is no flight in Ba Sing Se, I mean, WoW, right?

Nice, hope you were smiling.

And no reason. Somehow the complete and utter 180 in 2 weeks is not because of the official forums, it's just because.

[Mafic]

The threads are picking up steam on the official forums with flying but it seems that there are a lot of anti flight agitators fueling the recent outbreak of threads. What is interesting to see is the recent nerfs to toys and gliders as an indication that Blizzard is hunkering down for a round 2 faceoff with the player base regarding the future of flight in the game.