Chicago police officer severely beaten said she was afraid to use her gun

[Nathreim]

It's pretty fucked up when law enforcement can't do their job because racists will riot and the media will stir it up even more.

This exactly. The media is doing this to get ratings. They make the story sound like it was a hate crime to drum up ratings and encourage riots and protests so they can cover them and increasse their ratings even more.

They dont care about the fallout of their lies and manipulations.

[sarahtasher]

For the third time, please, internet tough guys, please, list infractions that do not warrant summary execution with a big gun according to you. (FTR, the kind of ''law'' suggested by the Internet Tough Guys is noticably harsher than even the deeply sarcastic Judge Dreddd, where people that don't resist are sentenced to prison terms...)

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This exactly. The media is doing this to get ratings. They make the story sound like it was a hate crime to drum up ratings and encourage riots and protests so they can cover them and increasse their ratings even more.

They dont care about the fallout of their lies and manipulations.

And of course, the ''good'' media depicting crime ridden cities is helping....

[Polyxo]

So bury your head in the sand. got it.

Speaking from miles and miles of experience, and being an actual expert in the matter, that's the best way to ensure you don't receive anything but superficial damage. Especially considering you have someone else to assist you get out of a bad position.

[Darkrulerxxx]

You do realize that whole "I have a black belt, my fists are deadly weapons" is 100% Hollywood bullshit, right?

Bare-hand attacks are definitively not considered to be lethal force, by themselves.



I know what I'd do in a situation like that because I have been in a situation like that. Got jumped, fought back. Managed to not murder anyone.

Why don't we talk about your comparable experiences? Because one of the following three statements must be true;

1> You've never been beaten up seriously, and don't have any idea what it's like.
2> You've had someone try to beat you up, and you killed them, went to trial, and successfully defended that action (or maybe you're posting from prison, I dunno).
3> You've been attacked, but managed to survive/escape/end the confrontation without resorting to deadly force, demonstrating that lethal force wasn't necessary in the first place.

One of the three. So which is it?

oh so what you're saying to me is that MMA is complete bullshit where injuries and deaths can happen as a result from punching/kicking...etc. I.E. using your fists or body as a weapon?

you know that's complete bullshit.

how can you not deny that strikes to the head/spleen/ or any vital organ can cause internal bleeding which can lead to death in a physical encounter?

for you to dismiss it as "i fought someone, he didn't die" as you're only excuse is ridiculous because the intent behind a person that is drugged up is completely different than someone at a bar fight because you hurled an insult at him?"

[sarahtasher]

I'm amazed, amazed I told you, that the usual suspects, so keen on finding ''manipulations'' and ''conspiracy'' have yet to realize that the police chief (not the cop) who made this statement made it during an award ceremony, after a row with the mayor over city hall pass laws to supervise the police.

Gee, this ''almost'' sounds like a crude and unsubtle jab directed at the mayor and the media....

[Polyxo]

I'm only using the 3,500 example because it was there in your list of them. It was the "most extreme" one and its just pure BS haha

But anyways I'm not disagreeing with you, PCP and Adrenaline will empower someone to be quite strong but I guess its just semantics because to me that's not an increase of strength that's just being unrestrained to tap into your full potential but that potential will have its limits physically

Like not to brag but I'm fairly strong, more than the average at least because I've weight lifted for years. So stack me up to an average bloke, pump us full of PCP and give us a spook to get the adrenaline flowing and I'll be stronger and faster than that person who is just generally weaker than me in a normal setting. Bodies have limits is all I'm saying.

Also scratch the faster part, I suck at running

It's also worth mentioning that picking up the side of a car that weighs 3500 lbs is not lifting 3500 lbs. And no, I'm not drawing the free body diagrams for it.

[sarahtasher]

oh so what you're saying to me is that MMA is complete bullshit where injuries and deaths can happen as a result from punching/kicking...etc. I.E. using your fists or body as a weapon?

you know that's complete bullshit.

how can you not deny that strikes to the head/spleen/ or any vital organ can cause internal bleeding which can lead to death in a physical encounter?

for you to dismiss it as "i fought someone, he didn't die" as you're only excuse is ridiculous because the intent behind a person that is drugged up is completely different than someone at a bar fight because you hurled an insult at him?"

Georges Saint Pierre, Canadian hero, is neither a cop or a felon.

[Dug]

It's also worth mentioning that picking up the side of a car that weighs 3500 lbs is not lifting 3500 lbs. And no, I'm not drawing the free body diagrams for it.

Yeah I was gonna get into that but I don't wanna do math, lets just say that side of the car is still going to weigh a fuckton

[Endus]

oh so what you're saying to me is that MMA is complete bullshit where injuries and deaths can happen as a result from punching/kicking...etc. I.E. using your fists or body as a weapon?

No. I'm saying that's not the norm, even for MMA, because it's actually pretty difficult to kill someone bare-handed.

Like I said, it CAN happen, but you can choke to death on a hot dog. That doesn't mean a hot dog is a lethal threat. There is no court that I'm aware of that considers unarmed assaults to be deadly force. Not one. That's what I meant when I said "definitive".

If your argument were accurate, there wouldn't be any kind of force other than "deadly force". And that's obviously untrue.

Just by way of specific example;

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/10/1047.7

(a) Deadly force means that force which a reasonable person would consider likely to cause death or serious bodily harm.

I underlined the critical word in the above. Getting punched can kill you, but it's not likely to kill you, so getting punched is definitively not deadly force.

Edit: And before you misinterpret "serious bodily harm"; http://definitions.uslegal.com/s/serious-bodily-harm/

It means permanent or seriously prolonged disfigurement/impairment.

[Daelak]

For the third time, please, internet tough guys, please, list infractions that do not warrant summary execution with a big gun according to you. (FTR, the kind of ''law'' suggested by the Internet Tough Guys is noticably harsher than even the deeply sarcastic Judge Dreddd, where people that don't resist are sentenced to prison terms...)

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And of course, the ''good'' media depicting crime ridden cities is helping....

They won't, it's just another run of the mill veiled racist commentary showing their enthusiasm for shooting a black person because they don't view them as human.

[Nathreim]

For the third time, please, internet tough guys, please, list infractions that do not warrant summary execution with a big gun according to you. (FTR, the kind of ''law'' suggested by the Internet Tough Guys is noticably harsher than even the deeply sarcastic Judge Dreddd, where people that don't resist are sentenced to prison terms...)

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And of course, the ''good'' media depicting crime ridden cities is helping....

There is no "good" media in this case everyone is abusing it.

[Mistame]

They won't, it's just another run of the mill veiled racist commentary showing their enthusiasm for shooting a black person because they don't view them as human.

Straight to racism? Yep, definitely a Daelak post. Grow up, kid.

[bledgor]

I mean someone willing to assault an officer isn't exactly a person I want around anyways, not a big lose if they had been shot.

[sarahtasher]

Straight to racism? Yep, definitely a Daelak post. Grow up, kid.

Why anyone would thinkthat the usual suspects tough guys comments have a veneer of racism ?

[Daelak]

Straight to racism? Yep, definitely a Daelak post. Grow up, kid.

It's blatantly obvious, to run to the side of execution of a citizen, felonious or not, just shows your blatant disregard for their humanity, a common trait among white supremacists and racists.

[Darkrulerxxx]

snip

but we're arguing semantics here and it's detracting away from my main point is the intent behind the attacker "beating" someone up.

person on drugs, just was in a car crash, hyped on adrenaline, first responder came in and was "beaten" up. whether that entails open-fisted/closed-fisted, kicking, strangling, choking, stomping, poking eyes out...,

THE POINT BEING, we don't know the details but the female officer doesn't know the intent behind that person, she fears for her life, therefore he forfeits his life to lethal means, COMPLETELY at the discretion of the victim being attacked.

it's easy for us to view it and judge the situation but if i was being physically attacked by someone, i'm not going to wait until the person decides to stop (because how would i know), i'm going to subdue him by whatever means i can, and if that means by a gun, then that is that.

[Rhaide]

If anything, her collegues probably would've wanted that too, because it gives them reason to pull out their guns again and shoot people for "disobeying orders"



lol, ya... in America maybe.
Not even soldiers are trained to kill, you can't train to kill unless you do it in a very fucked up way.

I'm actually on the cops' side most of the time, but it's a different story with the police force over there, not because of BLM or some bullshit like that, but because the country is so fucked up that it somehow became reasonable to shoot people whenever somethings goes even very slightly out of control. That's not policing dude...
I can even understand why they are trigger happy, because guns are a frequent and very real thing over there. But even though, not everyone has a gun and when they do not and it's clearly visible, and they don't have any other form a life threatining weapons in their hands. You don't - fucking - have to kill the culprit, even if he escapes because they can't catch him with their donut-bellies, it doesn't matter. And 3 people should really be able to handle a situation like that, but maybe all 3 of them were women, who were only hired to fill a quota or something?

Spoken like a true millennial with no knowledge whatsoever of how dangerous jobs work, or the training that law enforcement and military personnel receive.

[Endus]

but we're arguing semantics here and it's detracting away from my main point is the intent behind the attacker "beating" someone up.

person on drugs, just was in a car crash, hyped on adrenaline, first responder came in and was "beaten" up. whether that entails open-fisted/closed-fisted, kicking, strangling, choking, stomping, poking eyes out...,

THE POINT BEING, we don't know the details but the female officer doesn't know the intent behind that person, she fears for her life, therefore he forfeits his life to lethal means, COMPLETELY at the discretion of the victim being attacked.

This is not how self-defense law works in the USA. It's that simple. You're objectively wrong, here.

Here's a use-of-force brochure for Illinois, where this took place; http://www.ptb.state.il.us/media/1241/uof-brochure.pdf

Deadly force only if reasonable belief that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm

Which, again, did not and could not exist under these circumstances. Police officers don't determine intent. That's outside of their scope. That's for prosecutors to determine, at trial. And it's absolutely NOT "solely at the discretion of the victim being attacked", that's why the "reasonable belief" standard exists, because someone who's irrationally overreacting is not justified in using deadly force.

[zaino]

Wrong.

You might want to visit a night club or something. All these people, supposed to die and be outlawed? Nah, get real.

They are / should be trained to subdue unarmed persons without having to kill them, with nothing but a few scratches. Maybe not 1on1, but 3 cops should be able to handle it that way.

you vastly underestimate what someone under the influence of drugs is capable of

[Daelak]

Spoken like a true millennial with no knowledge whatsoever of how dangerous jobs work, or the training that law enforcement and military personnel receive.

No he's right. The protocol and training cops in the US receive have complete disregard to the purpose of policing, and that is not executing citizens.