No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[CheeseSandwich]

the pre-event filtered people into a small area, normal flying doesent do that...
bc the world still felt rather dead, same with WOTLK, walking around the world you rarely saw people, only in shatrath you saw tons, same with Mop and Cata, you dident see people very often unless you were in hubs

and its better cause you run along with people, run past, see, and help people, instead of simply flying point A to B and see no one

World quests filter people into small areas, that's why you see people from other servers all the time. With flying, it would be the exact same effect as the Legion pre-event, tons of people phased into a small area, each doing there own thing.

I disagree about the world feeling dead in those expacs, there was always tons of people around doing whatever suited them. And yeah, seeing people in cities and not much out in the wild makes sense in a rpg. You are an adventurer, taking on the wild and completing missions few dare to tackle. But that is beside the point.

I still don't get how flight paths, and now the whistle, that cut the world out way more effectively than free flight is the better option. At least with flying as an option as well as the whistle and fps, people could choose how they travel around.

If the ground option is as compelling as people make it out to be, seeing other people riding around in the short ride from the fp to the wq, then they shouldn't have a problem doing that when flight becomes available again. Unless of course, everyone else starts flying because it is the preferred option, and they just can't stomach the fact that "that guy from random server will get that 2k artifact power faster than me", and force themselves to begrudgingly sacrifice what they enjoy more just to keep up with the Jonses.

[-Joker-]

I still don't get how flight paths, and now the whistle, that cut the world out way more effectively than free flight is the better option.

Because they limit the amount of time you are cut away from the world. With a flying mount and a mouse clicker, you could stay removed from the world (not afk) indefinitely. The idea is to provide a small boost for travel and return you to the world in which we adventure.

[CheeseSandwich]

Because they limit the amount of time you are cut away from the world. With a flying mount and a mouse clicker, you could stay removed from the world (not afk) indefinitely. The idea is to provide a small boost for travel and return you to the world in which we adventure.

What would hovering above the world achieve? What does the player get out of that?

[Ordinator]

What would hovering above the world achieve? What does the player get out of that?

Invincibility

[CheeseSandwich]

Invincibility

The same kind of invincibility as sitting in a city, or at a fp, or off the path of mobs. The kind of invincibility that is useless if you actually want to do anything.

[Elim Garak]

Invincibility

Please do elaborate. I don't remember any "invincibility" buffs associated with flying.

[Ordinator]

The same kind of invincibility as sitting in a city, or at a fp, or off the path of mobs. The kind of invincibility that is useless if you actually want to do anything.

No, actually. None of what you mentioned is the "same kind of Invincibility"

[Mafic]

I truly believe is for immersion purposes. Probably the only decision by Blizzard to keep immersion in the game.

Its fun to watch the world full of people instead of flying afk in the air.

CRZ'd players you can't even interact with and disappear as soon as they use a flight whistle? I do not see the immersion angle at all. In fact, WoD offered more ground immersion than Legion easily.

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The Legion pre-event had flying and also had waves of people visable and active doing all sorts of things. BC, WotLK, MoP and Cata all had flying at max level and the world didn't suffer any.

One could also argue that it is the hubs of action where you are meant to see people, like towns and quest areas (like the Legion pre event and world quest areas)and seeing people on the journey in between doesn't ad much. After all, you can't complete anything while flying above it, everyone has to be on the ground to do most types of content.
Cuz right now it is do the wq objective, whistle out and fp to where each player is going next. This is better than flying....how?

Legion pre patch events showed the power of flight as a social tool and for convenience for doing events on alts or leveling characters. The benefits far outweigh whatever perceived negatives associated with flight.

The truth came out then: Flight made WoW great again.

[Thimagryn]

Flight is useful for transportation. I sometimes use it when I roleplay. Then again, I roleplay in classic locations where flight is permissible. Once flight is unlocked with Legion, I'll likely RP out in one of those zones as well (if the storyline takes our guild there). I can live with that fact just fine. I just wish they would express their dismay and move on rather than continuing to perpetuate the same misinformation about the expansion. It's one thing to offer feedback in a game you play. It is another to piss and moan about a missing mechanic in a game which you have neither purchased nor subbed to.

Aren't you doing the same thing by staying here and perpetuating the misinformation about pro-flight too? You only see it as a method of transportation, so you don't empathize with anyone who gets any enjoyment out of the use of this feature.

I guess it's like if we were talking about driving cars. Some people see it as a necessity to get around, and other people actually like to drive. What you're doing here is pretending no one likes to drive.

If flight were such a MAJOR thing, wouldn't they have added it to the two TBC starting zones and all of the outdated isles in Pandaria? Guess it is not the wildly popular mechanic some of these exaggeration artists would make it out to be.

You consistently confuse the message, and that's part of the problem.

You think - WE NEED FLIGHT EVERYWHERE!
What is actually wanted - Give us access to Global world travel at max level, after unlocking through achievements. Possibly make it a global achievement, unlocked for all Alts.

We all know the importance of no-flight for leveling and progress. Blizzard, the players, everyone. No one is complaining about not having flight while leveling main characters. This is about unlocking it for the main section of the world; where profession gathering, archaeology and the world in general can be enjoyed at the player's pace. I've even made suggestions of having the world be phased into non-flying specifically when you start a World Quest. The only difference this makes is instead of just taking a flight path and ground mount to the NPC that starts your World Quest, you have the choice of simply flying there. This one little act of unrestricted travel IMO is a strong and fair compromise for what many pro-flight people want - access to the air in the main Legion zones.

[-Joker-]

What would hovering above the world achieve? What does the player get out of that?

Indefinite safety? As a Druid during the Golden Lotus dailies, I could stay in flight form as I unlocked cages, gathered children, disabled lightning rods, and more. While others were forced to interact with mobs on the ground, I was able to swoop in, steal their target objective, and swoop out. No aggro, and no need to even shapeshift. Even I can admit that was a bit game/immersion breaking, and I was the one doing it. Without flight, that same Druid must now fight his way in and out (Guardian) and occasionally rely on other class mechanics to get him out of trouble.

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The same kind of invincibility as sitting in a city, or at a fp, or off the path of mobs. The kind of invincibility that is useless if you actually want to do anything.

There is a difference between hitting pause in a non-pause game, and playing world of queuecraft.

[Prokne]

I truly believe is for immersion purposes. Probably the only decision by Blizzard to keep immersion in the game.

Its fun to watch the world full of people instead of flying afk in the air.

The world has the same amount of "immersion" for me down on the ground or flying above it. It's a fantasy game, there is no reason why flying should be somehow not a part of that world.

The reasons Blizzard is stopping you from flying are:

They want the content to last longer. (You can't do as much if you can't fly)
They want to force you to play their games their way (this has been obvious since the release of D3).
They want to avoid having to think up new ways to create quests or areas with flying in mind (to prevent the "problem" of flying trivializing content).
They want more time to model the world. Do the ground parts for release and use the time after to clean up the air areas. (In the case of WoD, they tried to use no flying to slack on world creation)

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Indefinite safety? As a Druid during the Golden Lotus dailies, I could stay in flight form as I unlocked cages, gathered children, disabled lightning rods, and more. While others were forced to interact with mobs on the ground, I was able to swoop in, steal their target objective, and swoop out. No aggro, and no need to even shapeshift. Even I can admit that was a bit game/immersion breaking, and I was the one doing it. Without flight, that same Druid must now fight his way in and out (Guardian) and occasionally rely on other class mechanics to get him out of trouble.

I would agree that being able to interact with things in Druid travel form is broken. Having an instant mount is enough IMO. It doesn't mean flying is bad as every other class uses it. Basically an extreme that I don't think many people want or are arguing for (with the exception of mounted combat). We just want to be able to travel quickly to our destination without having to run through a 3d maze full of objects designed to slow us down, and see the world Blizzard created from a better vantage point.

[-Joker-]

Aren't you doing the same thing by staying here and perpetuating the misinformation about pro-flight too? You only see it as a method of transportation, so you don't empathize with anyone who gets any enjoyment out of the use of this feature.

I guess it's like if we were talking about driving cars. Some people see it as a necessity to get around, and other people actually like to drive. What you're doing here is pretending no one likes to drive.

You consistently confuse the message, and that's part of the problem.

You think - WE NEED FLIGHT EVERYWHERE!
What is actually wanted - Give us access to Global world travel at max level, after unlocking through achievements. Possibly make it a global achievement, unlocked for all Alts.

I've already expressed my views about flight, but rather than make anyone go back and look for it, I will share them here.

I am pro-flight. I want flight at lvl 1. I don't believe in no fly zones. But, all that said, this is not my game, I don't make the rules, and Blizz certainly doesn't change on a dime based on an MMO-C thread.

I want flight available in the open world. This includes the TBC starting zones and the remaining isles on MoP (out dated content). I think there should be a huge meta that allows veteran players to have flight fully unlocked starting at lvl 1 account wide. There should be a pathfinder for each continent. Complete it and your lvl 1 alts can now fly the moment you create them (on that continent and any others unlocked). I think flight should be account wide period, and we should no longer have to pay 10k+ gold per toon to get flight.

ALL THAT SAID: I don't think there should be flight in the CURRENT content until the dev team feels it is time to reward players and open that box. Once the box in the expac is open, there is no going back. So they want to fulfill their vision prior to allowing flight. They thought they could get away with no flight on Draenor, and ultimately, they had to cave and add it, along with a bunch of other stuff, just to keep players around. I personally feel (read as my opinion) Legion can stand to make it to 7.2, and maybe 7.3 without flight depending on the success of the Kara patch and the one to follow. At least we are getting real content this time... and not selfies.

Now... that is MY opinion, and MY take on the matter. I do not speak for Blizz, anti-fliers, or pro-fliers. I speak only for myself (unlike most of you). I hope this was crystal clear, cause I will NOT be repeating it.

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I would agree that being able to interact with things in Druid travel form is broken. Having an instant mount is enough IMO. It doesn't mean flying is bad as every other class uses it. Basically an extreme that I don't think many people want or are arguing for (with the exception of mounted combat). We just want to be able to travel quickly to our destination without having to run through a 3d maze full of objects designed to slow us down, and see the world Blizzard created from a better vantage point.

We had mounted combat in Nagrand on Draenor. Wasn't very popular. I was hoping for more, but casting spells from the back of a Talbuk just wasn't satisfying. Now, if they want to make aerial combat and give my dragon a flamebreath (or Occ like skills) I won't say no, but I do feel current content can last a bit longer without the need for flight.

[Prokne]

the pre-event filtered people into a small area, normal flying doesent do that...
bc the world still felt rather dead, same with WOTLK, walking around the world you rarely saw people, only in shatrath you saw tons, same with Mop and Cata, you dident see people very often unless you were in hubs

and its better cause you run along with people, run past, see, and help people, instead of simply flying point A to B and see no one

While doing world quests today, I ran through a bunch of areas devoid of people. Those same areas were full of people a few days ago when there was a world quest there. At the beginning of WoD, you only saw people in the apexis daily areas. In MoP and earlier, you only saw people near daily quest hubs. People are where the activities are no matter how they are able to get to them.

And I'm actually less likely to stop and do anything extra when I have to use a ground mount because I don't have the time.

[SirCowdog]

I truly believe is for immersion purposes. Probably the only decision by Blizzard to keep immersion in the game.

Its fun to watch the world full of people instead of flying afk in the air.

The problem with this is that it's a flawed concept that immersion can ONLY happen from the ground. The invasion event before Legion showed us that people are perfectly willing to group up and stick together in the open world even with flying enabled. The problem is(as many people have rightly pointed out) the nature of the content, and not the mode of travel.

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uh no, at first they dident add flying in wod because they dident want to add it, then when they gave in and decided they would add it, they had to fix the world, so yes it was technical reasons, not arbitary placement...

I'm agreeing with you.

In WoD what you just said is exactly true. But this is not the case in Legion(which is what I was poking fun at).

^^^^ running through the world you see people, it looks like a active world, a world of warcraft
being able to fly you will see little to no one, making the game feel dead

As I quoted above, this is not necessarily true. It's a flawed assumption that flying "makes the game feel dead". In Tanaan I saw plenty of people flying around to various objectives, landing and grouping up for rares, then going their own way afterwords. The same with the Invasions. Flying is not responsible for the game feeling dead, but rather poor content that goes obsolete too quickly. I highly suspect that if flying was enabled tomorrow, we'd still see just as many people around the open world of Legion, doing its various objectives, as we see right now on the ground. And that's because, largely, Legion content is better than WoD. It's not necessarily better JUST because it's on the ground, however, if that makes sense?

[Eapoe]

The anti-flight people have CONSTANTLY and consistently misrepresented, twisted, over-exaggerated, and outright ignored facts in order to try and poke holes in the arguments made in favor of flight, but somehow WE'RE the ones trying too hard to prove people wrong? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!! HOLY SHIT! Oh man, fuck me, my gut hurts! Stop!




Wait...what? "You're not saying you want wow to be a flight sim, but what you're saying brings the game closer to being a flight sim, and I'm saying wow isn't a flight sim." Do you even read your own words? You're arguing against a point that has NEVER been made, and that YOU made up in order to argue against flying in WoW! That is the very definition of a straw man! /facepalm




How many times have we been over this? I've made plenty of suggestions of ways to include flight using the CURRENT engine. Any time I have suggested or discussed things which are beyond the current tech, I've made it clear that it's purely in the realm of theoretical discussion. Every other aspect of WoW has shown improvements to the tech over the years. It is NOT out of the realm of possibility to discuss possible improvements to the technology of flying. Blizzard has shown incredible innovation, to the point of even inventing new technologies in order to make things work. It is fair game to discuss the POSSIBILITY of them doing the same for flying, and the only reason you like to use that as ammo against flight is because, once again, you're twisting the intent and the context of the discussion in order to make your own PoV sound better.





They're only contradictions because you're, again, twisting the context. So, let me be absolutely clear. Here are some very distinct, and separate concepts that I've discussed in the past. Read them carefully and PLEASE try not to jump to conclusions, or mix them together to come up with something that wasn't actually intended.

• I have never ASKED for harpoon mobs or dismounting NPCs. I have talked about the POSSIBILITY of using them(or something similar) as a way to add potential threats to specific quest areas in order to make them more dangerous. I use those examples because they're already in the game, and could quickly and easily be implemented without any new techs or designs. This is not an ideal situation(since I think flying deserves better, and more, work than), but something that could work right now.
• I did not EVER praise Suramar. I pointed out that the ground community seems to view Suramar as an amazing example of how good ground content can be. I do not personally believe Suramar is all that great. But it's there, in a live version of the game, so it can be used as medium for several points. 1) That Blizzard is full of shit when they say they don't think it's good to use "magic anti-flight dust" every time they want to make an area more dangerous. 2) If patrolling anti-illusion NPCs are viewed as acceptable on the ground, then patrolling anti-flight NPCs are likewise acceptable to use in the air in a similar fashion. 3) Because of points 1 and 2, it should be possible to include flying in WoW's current content design without drastically altering the fundamental nature of the game, and without breaking it in the ways that Blizzard claims it would.
• I have never asked for "safe corridors". I'm not even sure where you got that idea. I've said that adding anti-air mechanics around specific quest areas could be used to make those areas more dangerous. And I've said that using them everywhere, in the same way that dazing is used everywhere, is a bad idea. I did not mean to imply that dazing is inherently bad, but the OVERUSE of it is. Similarly, overuse of any anti-air mechanic would likewise be bad.

Fine, for the sake of salvaging some shred of mutual understanding, I'll assume that you do not actually hate flight, but simply have a very difficult time keeping the concepts being discussed separate. After reading your posts over the course of the thread, it seems like you and other people arguing against flight have a strong tendency for misinterpreting what's actually being said. This post you just made is a prime example of that.

So you say you've never asked for them and in the same paragraph state that you've suggested the possibility of using said things? Forgive me the distinction, as you are right, you haven't asked for them and you just said use them to improve flight mechanics (as a suggestion of course).
You've also said "improve the technology of flying," which by definition brings it closer to a flight sim. The tech doesn't need improved at all as it is a travel mechanic and functions as one. What specific technology are you wanting improved? Adding things like lift, thrust, altitude drag? Or are you suggesting tech improvements in things like flight corridors and taking things off the ground and putting them in the air (which takes it more towards an air combat style game and brings us back to putting things in the air people want to avoid)?
You claim I twist words around yet you are contradicting yourself left and right as I merely point out the contradictions.

[FelPlague]

The problem with this is that it's a flawed concept that immersion can ONLY happen from the ground. The invasion event before Legion showed us that people are perfectly willing to group up and stick together in the open world even with flying enabled. The problem is(as many people have rightly pointed out) the nature of the content, and not the mode of travel.

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I'm agreeing with you.

In WoD what you just said is exactly true. But this is not the case in Legion(which is what I was poking fun at).





As I quoted above, this is not necessarily true. It's a flawed assumption that flying "makes the game feel dead". In Tanaan I saw plenty of people flying around to various objectives, landing and grouping up for rares, then going their own way afterwords. The same with the Invasions. Flying is not responsible for the game feeling dead, but rather poor content that goes obsolete too quickly. I highly suspect that if flying was enabled tomorrow, we'd still see just as many people around the open world of Legion, doing its various objectives, as we see right now on the ground. And that's because, largely, Legion content is better than WoD. It's not necessarily better JUST because it's on the ground, however, if that makes sense?

yes but tannan was one zone that everyone was focused into, in legion right now everyone wants to be everywhere, meaning instead of everyone being focused in tanan, everyone will be spread across the broken isles
the invasions of fucking corse you will see tons of people, the event was purpiosly made so it would pull people from TONS of servers to make it have as many people as possible

thing is as soon as you whent away from the closest objectives to the town, you saw no one

and yeah no one is saying the reason you dident see anyone in wod was because flying, it was because shit all content, but if you could fly right now then well you would mostly only see people at world quests, no more people at towns to flight points, no more people running down roads, climbing up mountains

[SirCowdog]

So you say you've never asked for them and in the same paragraph state that you've suggested the possibility of using said things? Forgive me the distinction, as you are right, you haven't asked for them and you just said use them to improve flight mechanics (as a suggestion of course).
You've also said "improve the technology of flying," which by definition brings it closer to a flight sim. The tech doesn't need improved at all as it is a travel mechanic and functions as one. What specific technology are you wanting improved? Adding things like lift, thrust, altitude drag? Or are you suggesting tech improvements in things like flight corridors and taking things off the ground and putting them in the air (which takes it more towards an air combat style game and brings us back to putting things in the air people want to avoid)?
You claim I twist words around yet you are contradicting yourself left and right as I merely point out the contradictions.

Sigh.... You only think I'm contradicting myself because you're assuming I'm saying things that I'm not. Honestly, I'm done with this. You want to actually have a discussion about possible ideas, fine. But if all you're going to do is twist what I'm saying, then attack that twist....then there's really nothing more to talk about.

[Deleted]

They seriously need to stop putting so much **** on the ******* roads if they aint gonna let us fly and not remove the daze mechanic from the game.

Stop half arsing this game and either remove it or stop people from negating it by rolling tank and providing profession stuff to counter it.

[SirCowdog]

yes but tannan was one zone that everyone was focused into, in legion right now everyone wants to be everywhere, meaning instead of everyone being focused in tanan, everyone will be spread across the broken isles
the invasions of fucking corse you will see tons of people, the event was purpiosly made so it would pull people from TONS of servers to make it have as many people as possible

thing is as soon as you whent away from the closest objectives to the town, you saw no one

and yeah no one is saying the reason you dident see anyone in wod was because flying, it was because shit all content, but if you could fly right now then well you would mostly only see people at world quests, no more people at towns to flight points, no more people running down roads, climbing up mountains

Maybe I just have a different experience in Legion than you. The only time I see people in numbers is at the world quest objectives and in Dalaran. Yes, occasionally I'll pass someone on a road, but that is VERY rare, and next to nothing when compared to the amount of people at the objectives.

What you seem to be implying(PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong here) is that the value of seeing people in areas other than quest zones is more important than the player agency provided by flying. In other words: The less-important stuff between objectives is being given the appearance of value because players are forced onto the ground?

Please don't get me wrong here. I understand the value of trying to create a world where it seems like there's stuff going on. I just don't agree that the best way to do that is by taking away a beloved feature and forcing people into the relatively unimportant "content" of tedious travel. Keep in mind my use of words here: "relatively unimportant" is used when compared to stuff that actually progresses or improves your character.

[Eapoe]

Sigh.... You only think I'm contradicting myself because you're assuming I'm saying things that I'm not. Honestly, I'm done with this. You want to actually have a discussion about possible ideas, fine. But if all you're going to do is twist what I'm saying, then attack that twist....then there's really nothing more to talk about.

No one has twisted anything, I've simply pointed out things that you have advocated for and pointed out the flaws with said topics. I've even applauded you for thinking outside the box on the topic, yet that still does not mean the ideas themselves would work in the end, as I've clearly stated why. Put very simply, the technology is not an issue because the game does not need further advancements for how flight works; and, as far as your other ideas, while that would make you and a few others (relative term) happy with a more dangerous sky and things like air combat or danger zones, it will make just as many others infuriated at having the things they want to skip with flight now being in their airspace. The issue at this point is that you are trying to make me out as some no flyboy in an attempt to justify your ideas being better than the arguements against them and not seeing that your last few posts are filled with contradictions.
Flight is a convenience mode of travel to save time and skip the world. The second it's made into something more we are now branching into a different genre of game, and while it might be well received and even lauded for, you still have to take into consideration that your ideas would greatly piss off people (most of the self called pro flight crowd) that just want it back for what it is for.