[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[lawow74]

Tanks have the tools, you just need to give them the appropriate time/ opportunities to use them.

Which is what I'm doing. If they're pulling packs together, I follow and wait until they're settled. And even THEN they're not holding it properly. Believe me, I know the difference between one that's generating hate correctly and one who's just phoning it in.

[Katchii]

Which is what I'm doing. If they're pulling packs together, I follow and wait until they're settled. And even THEN they're not holding it properly. Believe me, I know the difference between one that's generating hate correctly and one who's just phoning it in.

Fair enough, your original post wasn't clear on that point. That said, it's still very possible for a lower geared tank to have threat pried from it if a higher geared DPS is doing their single target rotation on one of the mobs the tank isn't focusing on, which in a huge pack can be quite a few of them. However, a tanks AoE threat generation should be more than capable of maintaining threat against DPS who are also just using their AoE rotation...provided that DPS isn't a BLM that ridiculously outgears the dungeon and is able to open up with Flare x 2.

[Sorrior]

Which is what I'm doing. If they're pulling packs together, I follow and wait until they're settled. And even THEN they're not holding it properly. Believe me, I know the difference between one that's generating hate correctly and one who's just phoning it in.

What was their Ilv that can also play a part

[Granyala]

it's still very possible for a lower geared tank to have threat pried from it if a higher geared DPS is doing their single target rotation on one of the mobs the tank isn't focusing on, which in a huge pack can be quite a few of them.

Lack of gear ear can really hurt a tank in FF. Unlike in WoW: if you are too far behind, you will run into trouble TPS wise.

Also, keep in mind that tanks have a hard time maintaining threat below 30/40 until they get their "Imma tank and do moar aggro" stance.

[Graeham]

Also, keep in mind that tanks have a hard time maintaining threat below 30/40 until they get their "Imma tank and do moar aggro" stance.

I'm hoping that part of the rework for the abilities in the next expansion includes granting PLD, WAR and DRK their tank stances earlier on.

[Sorrior]

Lack of gear ear can really hurt a tank in FF. Unlike in WoW: if you are too far behind, you will run into trouble TPS wise.

Also, keep in mind that tanks have a hard time maintaining threat below 30/40 until they get their "Imma tank and do moar aggro" stance.

This SOOOO much this I leveled an alternative hit 60 in 3.1 or 3.2 and goddammit did I have issues till I geared up more

- - - Updated - - -

I'm hoping that part of the rework for the abilities in the next expansion includes granting PLD, WAR and DRK their tank stances earlier on.

Ehhh I unno war gets their right away drk too paladin at 40 remember stances are job nit class skills and changing these around involves changing story quests and more as it would mean new skills would need to take their place.

[Granyala]

Ehhh I unno war gets their right away drk too paladin at 40 remember stances are job nit class skills and changing these around involves changing story quests and more as it would mean new skills would need to take their place.

To be blunt: 30 levels of frustration while tanking is, plain simply: unnecessary.

Tankling in low level can be quite a pain and I am saying this as an experienced MMO veteran that leveled all 3 tank classes.
Yes it's not so bad if one mob runs off, since stuff hits like half wet noodles anyway, but it still feels shitty to the newbie.

No matter how much people argue, this is not good game design, period.

[Sorrior]

To be blunt: 30 levels of frustration while tanking is, plain simply: unnecessary.

Tankling in low level can be quite a pain and I am saying this as an experienced MMO veteran that leveled all 3 tank classes.
Yes it's not so bad if one mob runs off, since stuff hits like half wet noodles anyway, but it still feels shitty to the newbie.

No matter how much people argue, this is not good game design, period.

Didn't say it was way just saying that it would involve alot of story stuff being altered too so may be Hardee to change then we think for this one skill type

[Khime]

Fair enough, your original post wasn't clear on that point. That said, it's still very possible for a lower geared tank to have threat pried from it if a higher geared DPS is doing their single target rotation on one of the mobs the tank isn't focusing on, which in a huge pack can be quite a few of them. However, a tanks AoE threat generation should be more than capable of maintaining threat against DPS who are also just using their AoE rotation...provided that DPS isn't a BLM that ridiculously outgears the dungeon and is able to open up with Flare x 2.

You say that last bit like it's a bad thing...

[Katchii]

You say that last bit like it's a bad thing...

Bad, no... aggravating as a tank, yes...and I'm sure the healer doesn't appreciate healing through half the mobs eating your face either...or scraping your trigger happy butt off the floor.

I always think of THIS when I see a mage do that... it's hilarious.

[lawow74]

What was their Ilv that can also play a part

Not relevant, as the dungeon in question syncs ilvl. No, this is just a case of not being on the ball.

[Sorrior]

Not relevant, as the dungeon in question syncs ilvl. No, this is just a case of not being on the ball.

Ohhh sync'd..though can still play a minor one

[Granyala]

Bad, no... aggravating as a tank, yes...and I'm sure the healer doesn't appreciate healing through half the mobs eating your face either...or scraping your trigger happy butt off the floor.

In level dungeons (preHW) I don't care. Mobs are too weak to be problematic.

All that changes @ 51 though.

[MrTharne]

Tanking is so dreadful in this game (20 with Glad at the moment, 32 with War) because :
- Thaumaturge is retarded, I use Flash 2 times and spam my enmity combo (with Fight or Flight up) and the dude still get the aggro on the boss (Thauma was also 20ish).
- Target switching is awful imo. I don't really know why the little window doesn't always show ALL enemies that are in combat with you and your group, sometimes I engaged one and all the ones aggro with it show up, sometimes it's only the one that I engaged and all the ones aggro with it don't.
- A nice addition would be adding the threat bar of the highest after you UNDER the little color forms in this little window because having to switch between every targets to see the threat level of every one in the group (by looking next to their names...) is bad.
- And guildhests are terrible for tank "Hey let's spawn mobs in every direction, at once and for maximum fun we will sometimes make them ranged!"...I mean what are you suppose to do in this situation ? Pray the gods that you want a mass grip like DK in wow ?

No wonder no one wants to tank.

[Kazgrel]

The tab targeting in this game is a bit wonky, especially when you're used to WoW's tab targeting for years. That doesn't help with tanking, either. There's also the tank stance deal, as others have noted. I'm still puzzled as to why PLD gets theirs later on compared to DRK and WAR (shield oath at 40 vs grit/defiance at 30).

As a career BLM in this game, were I on that job for leveling roulette in any dungeons below level 30, I can make even another downleveled tank's life a nightmare if I choose to do so, let alone a poor sprout tank. But for now, I'm leveling the last couple dps jobs I have left (actually, they are the last ones I have left, period, until SB), MNK, NIN and MCH, and with 2 of them being melee, tanks don't have to really go far if I happen to pull aggro.

[Katchii]

In level dungeons (preHW) I don't care. Mobs are too weak to be problematic.

All that changes @ 51 though.

True. I made that statement with Expert level dungeons in mind, specifically the last big trash pack of Gubal Library (Hard) with all those little mammets that keep popping out of the statues. So many...

[Remilia]

- A nice addition would be adding the threat bar of the highest after you UNDER the little color forms in this little window because having to switch between every targets to see the threat level of every one in the group (by looking next to their names...) is bad.

Unless I'm reading it wrong, that little list does have threat indication. Blue = low threat, orange = high, like 80% or so and red = you are #1 threat.

[MrTharne]

Unless I'm reading it wrong, that little list does have threat indication. Blue = low threat, orange = high, like 80% or so and red = you are #1 threat.

Yes, that's your threat. But to see the highest threat after yours, you need to go look next to the name of the party members and that's only for your current target, so you need to go through all the targets to see if maybe you will lose aggro on one of them.

What would be nice is having for each target, under the Blue/Orange/Red (there is the space), a little bar (same as the one close to the name of the party members) that shows the highest threat level after yours, so if the bar is almost full you know you need to switch to keep the aggro up on this specific target.


And I don't really understand their Targeting system, you either have to cycle through all the enemies on the surface of the game or using a bunch of options to move some kind of "cursor" between the selected things in filters but why have this "cursor" that doesn't change your real target (it looks like it just lets you do a unique action before going back to your real target) instead of just changing the real target.

[Remilia]

Oh, but... at orange you're close to aggro change. So wouldn't it be obvious to just attack the orange target.

[Wrecktangle]

Never had any issues with holding threat leveling PLD, I didn't even need tank stance 99% of the time. Flash is useless for anything other than initial aggro. Rotate your enmity combo on enemies as needed because DPS + enmity > enmity.

If I were to come back now and play my PLD I could see it being an issue with DPS being 50+ ilvl over me, but then there's really no fix for that short of making threat completely trivial.