Why do casuals need gear?

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

And the minute you create that kind of content, it is functionally no different to a dungeon.

Thanks, but no thanks.

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At least you're honest.

So there no difference between questing and a dungeons? because it's just questing with a difficult increase that also from greater player interactions. Blizzard can add group quest the difficulty because everything done in the special zones could be optional and not mandatory for the main story everybody wins.

[Snuffleupagus]

So there no difference between questing and a dungeons? because it's just questing with a difficult increase that also from greater player interactions. Blizzard can add group quest the difficulty because everything done in the special zones could be optional and not mandatory for the main story everybody wins.

You basically suggested dungeons that were in the open world and phased. That's a dungeon. Or a raid with enough people.

Here's a story about my gear.

I play sporadically. The most organised I get is Friday M+ runs if I'm not out getting shitfaced and being a rude cunt, and raids on Sat/Sun for a couple of hours those two nights.

My gear currently consists of 2 pieces of Heroic EN gear, 2 pieces of Normal EN gear, and the rest is World Quest gear and Mythic+. My 1 legendary dropped from a World Rare spawn, and all the relics in my Artifact are from Mythic (+0).

I currently sit at 868ilvl from this, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm not convinced that casuals have no way to advance their gear.

[Duravian]

In Warlords I made it a personal goal to reach 700 ilvl only through crafting and Tanaan, while min/maxing with gems and enchants. As someone who's already done the whole years of raiding AND years of PvPing, it was fun to play the game in complete single player mode for a change. These casuals you speak of have to find their own way to make progression fun.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

You basically suggested dungeons that were in the open world and phased. That's a dungeon. Or a raid with enough people.

Here's a story about my gear.

I play sporadically. The most organised I get is Friday M+ runs if I'm not out getting shitfaced and being a rude cunt, and raids on Sat/Sun for a couple of hours those two nights.

My gear currently consists of 2 pieces of Heroic EN gear, 2 pieces of Normal EN gear, and the rest is World Quest gear and Mythic+. My 1 legendary dropped from a World Rare spawn, and all the relics in my Artifact are from Mythic (+0).

I currently sit at 868ilvl from this, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm not convinced that casuals have no way to advance their gear.

My original suggest was a zone with mobs that were challenging and other players. The mobs can scale based on the amount of players attacking them and Blizzard can even have quest that require interactions from other players. I did do some brainstorm that let to some contradicting ideas though because I was trying to counter points made by other posters. It basically questing on hard mode with tons of player interaction for people who don't enjoy instances content. Casual had long lasting challenging content in Burning Crusade and Vanilla, and I think the blizzard can bring it back with the new mythic dungeon keystone mechanic. They can tune the world quest in those zones to a higher level and actually make it for people who want to interact with others rather than playing a single player game in an open world mmorpg.

[Snuffleupagus]

My original suggest was a zone with mobs and other players. The mobs can even scale based on the amount of players attacking them and they can even have quest that require interactions from other players. I did do some brainstorm that let to contradicting ideas though trying to counter points. It basically questing on hard mode with tons of player interaction for people who don't enjoy instances content. Casual had long lasting challenging content in Burning Crusade and Vanilla, and I think the blizzard can bring it back with the new mythic dungeon mechanic. They can tune the current world quest to a high level so a special cross realm would seems like it would help fix the problem.

Flex raiding.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Flex raiding.

The flex raiding has a player limit and once again the zones would allow more people than raiding or dungeons would allow to populate the same area. The new feature could be on par with Vanilla and Burning Crusade world content were people would just group to beat mobs and actually interact with each other because it was necessary. Flex raiding is raiding and not everyone enjoys that...

[BannedForViews]

The answer is they don't need gear. They want it so they feel like they are "just as good" as raiders, or some such nonsense. They forget it's a game and no one really cares, and you only need that gear to get into good raiding guilds, to actually raid. Not to do world quests. And if you can get it from world quests then it trivializes raid content, which is even worse for the game than for a casual to unsub because he isn't in 880 gear.

[darklogrus]

And they were wrong to do that. Just like it's wrong to expect gear of a higher ilvl with no effort.

Crafted gear is now 855 I notice, with a bit of effort and no dungeons after getting patterns, you too can be ready for Heroic EN. But people don't want effort. They want 880 gear from picking up nuts and catching squirrels.

I don't have any 850 patterns not sure where you got that from. As for gear/effort isn't the problem. Its an unrewarding, underwhelming system. A system that failed horribly in Warlords and somehow was built upon into an even bigger mess.

[Duravian]

The answer is they don't need gear. They want it so they feel like they are "just as good" as raiders, or some such nonsense. They forget it's a game and no one really cares, and you only need that gear to get into good raiding guilds, to actually raid. Not to do world quests. And if you can get it from world quests then it trivializes raid content, which is even worse for the game than for a casual to unsub because he isn't in 880 gear.

I have to agree with this. I only strive for enough gear to get by comfortably in the world. I have no interest in heroics and raiding, those aspects of the game died out long ago for me.

[Thereaperszone]

The answer is they don't need gear. They want it so they feel like they are "just as good" as raiders, or some such nonsense. They forget it's a game and no one really cares, and you only need that gear to get into good raiding guilds, to actually raid. Not to do world quests. And if you can get it from world quests then it trivializes raid content, which is even worse for the game than for a casual to unsub because he isn't in 880 gear.

Yea no people want better gear to advance their toons. They make gear with levels as a grind they can make content not require higher and higher gear lvls and let skill play a bigger part.

[Deleted]

I got triggered when I read the latest Q&A and this guy is asking blizz why he can't get higher than 850 without going into dungeons? He goes on to say that they need a "casual in their office telling them every day that he has nothing to do". If you don't want to do instanced PvE or PvP YOU DON'T NEED GEAR! If you are really that "casual" why do you need a HARDCORE ILVL!?!? go farm mounts or pets or xmogs or does that require an 880 ilvl? If you don't want to play WoW than don't play WoW don't whine and complain that it isn't Hello Kitty Island Adventure. I work AND go to school full time and I'm 855 ilvl and ready for karazan tomorrow. I'm a casual by my own definition and I never feel entitled to gear.


TLR Want gear? Get good. You don't deserve anything from WQ.

I share you sentiment.

Wow is about progression as others say but the next stage is group content as it's always been.
Wanting to change that betrays the game. You give people a snowball and they always have to throw it down the slope.

The reason why m+ works is because it's harder than for example heroic raid of similiar ilvl. Although with kharazan out now it feels like m+ is not worth the effort anymore (atleast for the ilvl).

Doing that for solo play would have to make it harder than m+ and it's still impossible because the soloing capabilities between classes are completly unbalanced.

[Deleted]

The answer is they don't need gear. They want it so they feel like they are "just as good" as raiders, or some such nonsense. They forget it's a game and no one really cares, and you only need that gear to get into good raiding guilds, to actually raid. Not to do world quests. And if you can get it from world quests then it trivializes raid content, which is even worse for the game than for a casual to unsub because he isn't in 880 gear.

If you have casuals who don't do any group content besides the occasional group WQ (or LFD dungeons/LFR), then you are probably right. The gear I got from WQs was sufficient for improving in that matter. But I also want to run mythic dungeons, at least mythic0, and there, problems start to arise. I also view mythic0 as casual content, btw. while Mythic+ is not (increasing difficulty, keystone and group management etc.), just like LFR is casual and any other raid difficulty is rather not (even Normal raids are not casual anymore, because group organisation, someone has to lead, and you should be prepared somehow with consumables etc.).

Thanks to everybody doing Kara attunements, I could run 3 mythic0 dungeons yesterday and got some nice upgrades, so I am now almost at ilevel 860 on my main (my best gearslots come from world bosses and occasional warforged mythic0 pieces). I think, I will now have it easier to join other mythic0 groups and can probably start with running Kara next week (this week is already full with RL commitments, so I can only hope to finish the attunement).

Anyway, I don't mind if WQs don't offer base item levels comparable to mythic+ or raid gear. But being able to progress further with crafted items, or having a reasonable entry level into groups would definitively be an important thing. Also, I would love to have mythic0 in the LFD matchmaking, with some entry barriers - complete dungeon on heroic first, and have a higher item level requirement than without LFG, about 835 or something like that. The logic behind this is, if you are in random matchmaking and the difficulty is largely the same as with organised groups because more mechanics included, then you have to overgear the dungeon somehow to compensate for an unorganised group.

[Snuffleupagus]

I don't have any 850 patterns not sure where you got that from. As for gear/effort isn't the problem. Its an unrewarding, underwhelming system. A system that failed horribly in Warlords and somehow was built upon into an even bigger mess.

Obliterum.

[Deleted]

Warlords proved its what almost killed Wow..

Do you really think that LFR is what made WoD bad for casuals? WTF

[Snuffleupagus]

If you have casuals who don't do any group content besides the occasional group WQ (or LFD dungeons/LFR), then you are probably right. The gear I got from WQs was sufficient for improving in that matter. But I also want to run mythic dungeons, at least mythic0, and there, problems start to arise. I also view mythic0 as casual content, btw. while Mythic+ is not (increasing difficulty, keystone and group management etc.), just like LFR is casual and any other raid difficulty is rather not (even Normal raids are not casual anymore, because group organisation, someone has to lead, and you should be prepared somehow with consumables etc.).

Thanks to everybody doing Kara attunements, I could run 3 mythic0 dungeons yesterday and got some nice upgrades, so I am now almost at ilevel 860 on my main (my best gearslots come from world bosses and occasional warforged mythic0 pieces). I think, I will now have it easier to join other mythic0 groups and can probably start with running Kara next week (this week is already full with RL commitments, so I can only hope to finish the attunement).

Anyway, I don't mind if WQs don't offer base item levels comparable to mythic+ or raid gear. But being able to progress further with crafted items, or having a reasonable entry level into groups would definitively be an important thing. Also, I would love to have mythic0 in the LFD matchmaking, with some entry barriers - complete dungeon on heroic first, and have a higher item level requirement than without LFG, about 835 or something like that. The logic behind this is, if you are in random matchmaking and the difficulty is largely the same as with organised groups because more mechanics included, then you have to overgear the dungeon somehow to compensate for an unorganised group.

Most of my gear is Titanforged WQ gear, which has allowed me to comfortably sit at 868 (869 if I want to be an ass and go full ilvl over stats).

Mythics can be done in an organised group at 835 very easily if you don't stand in bad things.

Since most pugs can't manage this, you'd have to set the entry point to 850, at which point why bother?

[darklogrus]

Obliterum.

Hmmm a casual spending 42k-60k per piece,

Do you really think that LFR is what made WoD bad for casuals? WTF

No, Making Warlords Raid or Die did. Nothing to do but log in 2x a week to raid...

[Deleted]

Since most pugs can't manage this, you'd have to set the entry point to 850, at which point why bother?

The other system players use is linking curve which allows you to get an alt with lower ilvl in the group. But that's jsut for raiding.

Ilvl is the easiest inidicator to find players who can clear content and have enough skill. It has a lot of flaws but untill their is a better system.

[Deleted]

Do you really think that LFR is what made WoD bad for casuals? WTF

Yeah, as if WoD was not the expansion with the least possible amout of world content, profession content and number of dungeons released in the history of WoW. LFR was the only thing that kept casuals around, and later Tanaan.

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Most of my gear is Titanforged WQ gear, which has allowed me to comfortably sit at 868 (869 if I want to be an ass and go full ilvl over stats).

Mythics can be done in an organised group at 835 very easily if you don't stand in bad things.

Since most pugs can't manage this, you'd have to set the entry point to 850, at which point why bother?

More content, more subs. Also, since base item level of mythic items is higher, you can also get higher WF procs. And you get different secondary stat distribution on these. I have not seen a decent crit+mastery chestpiece beside the one from my order hall set outside a dungeon. Yesterday, I finally got one from a mythic0 run which finally got 5 item levels more than the OH set robe. D'uh.

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Hmmm a casual spending 42k-60k per piece,



No, Making Warlords Raid or Die did. Nothing to do but log in 2x a week to raid...

A casual farming enough mats to craft things and turn these into dust. That's how I got 2 crafted pieces on 850 item level before 7.1. (tailor with most patters at 3 stars, and enough cloth drops with shoulder enchant.) This is casual progression.

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The other system players use is linking curve which allows you to get an alt with lower ilvl in the group. But that's jsut for raiding.

Ilvl is the easiest inidicator to find players who can clear content and have enough skill. It has a lot of flaws but untill their is a better system.

It's not a matter of skill anymore, more the matter of luck with WF and TF procs. But if you overgear the content to some degree, you can compensate to a degree for lack of skill (like people steamrolling WoD mythics with enough gear, almost not caring about mechanics at all).

[Snuffleupagus]

Hmmm a casual spending 42k-60k per piece,

Sure, if you want to rush it.

Not very casual though.

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The other system players use is linking curve which allows you to get an alt with lower ilvl in the group. But that's jsut for raiding.

Ilvl is the easiest inidicator to find players who can clear content and have enough skill. It has a lot of flaws but untill their is a better system.

I'm not denying that at all. I think putting an ilvl on queued Mythics means it would have to be practically the same as Mythic rewards with most pugs.

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More content, more subs. Also, since base item level of mythic items is higher, you can also get higher WF procs. And you get different secondary stat distribution on these. I have not seen a decent crit+mastery chestpiece beside the one from my order hall set outside a dungeon. Yesterday, I finally got one from a mythic0 run which finally got 5 item levels more than the OH set robe. D'uh.

Gear is not content.

Stat distribution is the same as Heroics.

ilvl is not everything, unless you are pugging content because it's the easiest indicator of how far someone has pushed their character. Although as I pointed out, 868ilvl with a couple of raid pieces, a couple of M+, and mostly WF/TF World Quest gear is doable.

[LolretKJ]

MMORPG. MMO. Massively Multiplayer Online. If you want to be a solo RPG player and expect to get the best loot, go play Skyrim or one of all the other RPG's out there that don't have dungeon and raid content. Why would anyone ever raid or even do dungeons if the best loot could be obtained with solo play with insignificant amount of time played?