Legion - Assassination Discussion

[uniquesnowflakename]

boi, there isnt a magic number for mastery. the only stat which really matters is crit. the higher your crit chance the smoother the rotation the higher the ep uptime. this is not only for ep/ap spec but for ep/exsang as well. I simed a lot of very high ep/ap parses with only 90-95% mastery but 47-48% crit (585k on available 895 bis), which is currently my reference for gearing.

It's not really worth running AP over Exsang unless you have mastery north of 90%, preferably 100%... so I wouldn't say there isn't a magic number. Mine is below 80% in my current gear unless I ditch the Kara trinket for a crappy stat stick with 1000 mastery on it.

[Deleted]

I'm still thinking that EP/EX is better than EP/AP , i feel AP kind of lacklusting effiency in fight with more than 1 target or with switch , maybe i'm doing something wrong but i get far better results with EP/EX (Get 46% crit , 102% mastery , 8% versa)

Edit : just got the zoldyck , but can't test on dummies , anyone get some exp with it ?

[Deleted]

Does someone has some good weak aura templates? especially for AP&all the debuffs/buffs.
Using a pretty standard one , maybe someone has some good ideas

[neozz1]

Does someone has some good weak aura templates? especially for AP&all the debuffs/buffs.
Using a pretty standard one , maybe someone has some good ideas

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...uras-all-specs

[ribthanwa]

I'm still thinking that EP/EX is better than EP/AP , i feel AP kind of lacklusting effiency in fight with more than 1 target or with switch , maybe i'm doing something wrong but i get far better results with EP/EX (Get 46% crit , 102% mastery , 8% versa)

Edit : just got the zoldyck , but can't test on dummies , anyone get some exp with it ?

Whether or not AP is effective is purely based on your gearing strategy and if the targets will be alive long enough for you to hit 5 AP stacks on them. Yes, AP can do more AoE than EX, assuming the mobs stay alive for a while. Also, AP is AMAZEBALLS on sustained 2 target cleave, since it is easy to keep up your 5 stack / rupture on both, and they will be rolling for crazy damage.

[Deleted]

It's not really worth running AP over Exsang unless you have mastery north of 90%, preferably 100%... so I wouldn't say there isn't a magic number. Mine is below 80% in my current gear unless I ditch the Kara trinket for a crappy stat stick with 1000 mastery on it.

The only key stat is crit. The more crit you have, the smoother is the rotation. Furthermore the higher the crit, the more often you can finish with more than 4cp inside the EP time frame.

Most of the players do only have the EP uptime in focus, but the surge of toxin debuff and the envenom debuff (for ep/exsang users) is extremely important as well. as the coincidence wants the uptime of all 3 buffs/debuffs are more or less equal. To maximize the EP uptime means also to maximize the envenom uptime and the surge of toxin uptime. To have enough crit rating to finish more often with 5+ cps is worth to aim for, because with 5cps your surge of toxins makes 2% more damage and the duration of the envenom buff is at the same as EP.

Surge of toxins increases your damage done by poison by max 10% (2% per cp / max 5 cps). This is an additive effect for ap, means you will receive +10% on top of your ap damage increasement.

Long story short, to have more crit the higher is the uptime of ep/surge of toxins/envenom.

this is why ep/exsang is able to become a little bit stronger than ep/ap because the high crit rate combined with the higher energy regeneration in exsang phases increases the uptime of ep/envenom/surge of toxins. The envenom buff is more or less useless for ep/ap users (only for a fast apply in cleave situations).

[ymirsson]

How can anyone take your ramblings serious if do not even know the abilities you are talking about? Surge of toxins is not a boost per cp for example.

[biolink22]

Surge of toxins increases your damage done by poison by max 10% (2% per cp / max 5 cps). This is an additive effect for ap, means you will receive +10% on top of your ap damage increasement.

Surge of Toxins has a static duration and does not scale with Combo Points used, nor does Elaborate Planning. The Envenom buff however does but as all of those are being applied at the same time you really only need to pay attention to the EP timer.

[Deleted]

Surge of Toxins has a static duration and does not scale with Combo Points used, nor does Elaborate Planning. The Envenom buff however does but as all of those are being applied at the same time you really only need to pay attention to the EP timer.

Just take a look at the debuff on the target. If you finish with 3 cps surge of toxins is marked with 6% dmg and your ap is 6% higher. If you finish with 5cps, the debuff is marked with 10% and the ap poison is 10% higher. Never talked about the durations of surge of toxins.

More crit -> better cp generation -> more and stronger finishers -> buff/debuff improvement

Surge of toxins: higher crit improves its uptime and its avg effectiveness
Envenom: higher crit improves its uptime exponentially
EP: increases its uptime linear

[Deleted]

Anyone here that thinks SoT doesn't scale with combo points used should take a quick look at the debuff, and come back here with their findings

[Deleted]

i checked this fast and i must agree with him

checked without ep and trinkets

damage of dp
base: 23403
1cp SoT: 23871
2cp SoT: 24339
3cp SoT: 24807
4cp SoT: 25275
5cp SoT: 25744
6cp SoT: 25744

ap is working as well, increasing ap directly no matter how often it is stacked

1cp SoT: +2%
2cp SoT: +4%
3cp SoT: +6%
4cp SoT: +8%
5cp SoT: +10%
6cp SoT: +10%

used rupture to proof the dps increasment is working properly without any kind of procs/ep which influence the rupture damage.

The effect of SoT increases the damage of poison bomb as well, so 5cp poison bomb is doing more dps than 4cp poison bomb.

[SSJones]

How can anyone take your ramblings serious if do not even know the abilities you are talking about? Surge of toxins is not a boost per cp for example.

It has been known it was a 2% boost per cp spent up to 5 for quite a while now. I remember seeing some testing of it in the rogue discord a few weeks back.

[ymirsson]

I hang my head in shame, this information never reached me.

[Deleted]

How can anyone take your ramblings serious if do not even know the abilities you are talking about? Surge of toxins is not a boost per cp for example.

if you want to be successful, you should be more open-minded :-)

[Satira]

So, i read something that sounds right. After so many discussion about how much mastery you need to change to AP and so... It seems to rely on how much AGILITY you have, and no mastery. Why? AP does an increase of % of youre damage. Yes, mastery increases that %, but more important is the base damage, and it is defined by your agi.

So, as far as I heard, heard, you must have something like 25k agility (without buff) to be in a good spot to change to AP (always keeping in mind that in some fights EX will be better, but that's another topic). I make the change to AP with 90% mastery and 28% crit and 25k agility and it was a little dps increase. In the sims and raiding as well. And it will be going to be a higher dps increase with better gear.

I don't know, but it seems really logical to me, and it brings light to so many questions.

[GT4]

I don't know, but it seems really logical to me, and it brings light to so many questions.

It's also mostly* nonsense because exsanguinate is also a multiplier on your DPS (the rupture portion of your DPS to be specific).

* if anything, AP would benefit from more weapon damage since exsanguinate only increases damage that scales solely off of attack power (and not weapon damage) whereas AP increases all damage

[Satira]

It's also mostly* nonsense because exsanguinate is also a multiplier on your DPS (the rupture portion of your DPS to be specific).

* if anything, AP would benefit from more weapon damage since exsanguinate only increases damage that scales solely off of attack power (and not weapon damage) whereas AP increases all damage

Not talking about what's better. There're more than one factor to see what give you better dps, and it is really a nonsense to discuss that. It's true that some fights will have a better performance with AP and other will have a better one with Exang, if you know how to play it right.

Anyways, getting back to the topic, lot of ppl want to know WHEN is it worth to change to AP, and it's not whith 105% mastery as some ppl say. Its having around 25k agi and some mastery, but can be 90% or more.

[Deleted]

Is this just luck or is poison bomb proccing more often now? Did 4 m+ after reset and i have a lot of chain procs.

[skindown]

So, i read something that sounds right. After so many discussion about how much mastery you need to change to AP and so... It seems to rely on how much AGILITY you have, and no mastery. Why? AP does an increase of % of youre damage. Yes, mastery increases that %, but more important is the base damage, and it is defined by your agi.

So, as far as I heard, heard, you must have something like 25k agility (without buff) to be in a good spot to change to AP (always keeping in mind that in some fights EX will be better, but that's another topic). I make the change to AP with 90% mastery and 28% crit and 25k agility and it was a little dps increase. In the sims and raiding as well. And it will be going to be a higher dps increase with better gear.

I don't know, but it seems really logical to me, and it brings light to so many questions.

Yeah, it's multipliers on top of multipliers ( mastery, AP, versatility, EP ), but the base value has to be big so that every multiplier can increase it to the sky

Also, work on that crit pl0x :P

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It's also mostly* nonsense because exsanguinate is also a multiplier on your DPS (the rupture portion of your DPS to be specific).

* if anything, AP would benefit from more weapon damage since exsanguinate only increases damage that scales solely off of attack power (and not weapon damage) whereas AP increases all damage

Not really accurate, I'm pretty sure almost all our skills scale poorly from weapon damage

[GT4]

Not really accurate, I'm pretty sure almost all our skills scale poorly from weapon damage

Which has nothing to do with what I just wrote. Good job having a strong opinion on something you don't understand though.

Here's a small hint: Which abilities scale more with weapon damage? Ones that scale "poorly" with weapon damage or ones that don't scale with weapon damage at all?

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Anyways, getting back to the topic, lot of ppl want to know WHEN is it worth to change to AP, and it's not whith 105% mastery as some ppl say. Its having around 25k agi and some mastery, but can be 90% or more.

I'm sorry but maths contradicts to your beliefs. There are tons of factors that can favor AP by increasing your damage contribution from abilities that aren't affected by exsanguinate (aka all but rupture) such as haste, legendaries, artifact, traits, etc. but neither agility nor attack power is one - it's quite the opposite actually as I've explained previously. It's trivial to formally prove this but given the way you argue, I very much doubt you'd understand a formal proof.