[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[nazrakin]

Does anyone actually want a "slow" playstyle? Maybe Ive overlooked some stuff but over the last couple of months I cant say Ive seen anyone asking for more open GCDs and slower maelstrom generation. What I have seen is overwhelming praise for enhancement as a spec that is fun to play, and Id be willing to bet that the vast majority, if not all, of them are spec'd for BF which allows for a playstyle where you very quickly spend and build a resource -- so its abit weird to me that Blizzard is so intent on tampering with that when they should just strip out the passive damage buffs and make it the baseline design.

[Lavindar]

Does anyone actually want a "slow" playstyle? Maybe Ive overlooked some stuff but over the last couple of months I cant say Ive seen anyone asking for more open GCDs and slower maelstrom generation. What I have seen is overwhelming praise for enhancement as a spec that is fun to play, and Id be willing to bet that the vast majority, if not all, of them are spec'd for BF which allows for a playstyle where you very quickly spend and build a resource -- so its abit weird to me that Blizzard is so intent on tampering with that when they should just strip out the passive damage buffs and make it the baseline design.

Pretty much, Boulderfist was in a really nice spot where it was kinda fast paced and spammy like Enhancement always was without necessarily being GCD capped with rockbitter.

[Jotaux]

I love the current flow of the rotation with boulderfist at the moment. I hope they do not do much to change that up.

[Murderdoll]

Does anyone actually want a "slow" playstyle? Maybe Ive overlooked some stuff but over the last couple of months I cant say Ive seen anyone asking for more open GCDs and slower maelstrom generation. What I have seen is overwhelming praise for enhancement as a spec that is fun to play, and Id be willing to bet that the vast majority, if not all, of them are spec'd for BF which allows for a playstyle where you very quickly spend and build a resource -- so its abit weird to me that Blizzard is so intent on tampering with that when they should just strip out the passive damage buffs and make it the baseline design.

I feel that we have a feast or famine playstyle, and during feast, sometimes the spec can be too quick and can become very overwhelming.

But thats not a problem caused by maelstrom generation. Thats a flaw within the specs inherit RNG.

With that being said, Maelstrom power is almost a meaningless resource at this point. The only time I am starved is on pull and I never really have to manage it. Im at the point where I hit Boulderfist for the buff rather than the Maelstrom generation. If its a meaningless resource, were back to the same old problem of mana. I assume this is what they want to address. However, why they dont just address the more passive generation of Maelstrom instead of the active generation I dunno.

[Arachnofiend]

I feel that we have a feast or famine playstyle, and during feast, sometimes the spec can be too quick and can become very overwhelming.

But thats not a problem caused by maelstrom generation. Thats a flaw within the specs inherit RNG.

With that being said, Maelstrom power is almost a meaningless resource at this point. The only time I am starved is on pull and I never really have to manage it. Im at the point where I hit Boulderfist for the buff rather than the Maelstrom generation. If its a meaningless resource, were back to the same old problem of mana. I assume this is what they want to address. However, why they dont just address the more passive generation of Maelstrom instead of the active generation I dunno.

It's you. You are the problem with Enhancement.

I did not sign up to play a Rogue. I said before the alpha went live that maelstrom has to be something you struggle to keep from capping out on, not something you struggle to not hit zero with, for the spec to work and feel good. This has not changed. For maelstrom to be "meaningful" as you put it they have to kill the feel of the spec.

[effs]

Oh my god, the Boulderfist rotation feels terrible now. Slow as molasses, constantly maelstrom starved. I'm gonna have to pray that these changes push Windsong into viability because I don't know if I can stick with Enhancement if I have to play this.

Yeah it feels dreadful. Would be nice to use windsong for once, but don't think it'll be viable still.

[ehxy]

To be perfectly honest as long as we scale well in realistic I don't think we need these nerfs. I would take staying the way we are now over trying to make our skills/spells/talents somehow conform to make the goddamn 4p look desirable.

[nazrakin]

I feel that we have a feast or famine playstyle, and during feast, sometimes the spec can be too quick and can become very overwhelming.

But thats not a problem caused by maelstrom generation. Thats a flaw within the specs inherit RNG.

With that being said, Maelstrom power is almost a meaningless resource at this point. The only time I am starved is on pull and I never really have to manage it. Im at the point where I hit Boulderfist for the buff rather than the Maelstrom generation. If its a meaningless resource, were back to the same old problem of mana. I assume this is what they want to address. However, why they dont just address the more passive generation of Maelstrom instead of the active generation I dunno.

I think Maelstrom being "meaningless" is largely a failure of talent/ability balance. Right now the go to talent set up is fairly light on mp consumption. If we were taking Overcharge, FoA, and Earthen Spike then you'd have something to burn it on rather than just Stormbringer. Instead Id like to see it become a better resource by giving me more interesting things to do with it rather than just slowing down the amount I have to work with.

I do agree that Stormbringer RNG is a problem and its something I'd like to see address. Even if that means nerfing Stormstrike and buffing other abilities, so that SS is still the best but not to the extent that it currently is.

[Jotaux]

Yeah it feels dreadful. Would be nice to use windsong for once, but don't think it'll be viable still.

Yeah but then you have to rockbiter spam :/

[Murderdoll]

It's you. You are the problem with Enhancement.

I did not sign up to play a Rogue. I said before the alpha went live that maelstrom has to be something you struggle to keep from capping out on, not something you struggle to not hit zero with, for the spec to work and feel good. This has not changed. For maelstrom to be "meaningful" as you put it they have to kill the feel of the spec.

Calm down fuckhead. We're having a discussion based on ptr changes. I never said I agree with the point of view that the spec is too fast. I was simply trying to offer a viewpoint and play devils advocate and maybe provide a possible reasoning for the changes instead. So put your finger away and stop blaming people like a child and lets have a discussion.

As for maelstrom. You have an interesting viewpoint and in a way you're right. We do struggle to keep it from capping and that helps provide the fast placed gameplay - as long as we can spend it through free GCDs and procs. But then it doesn't really become a resource at that point. If there is no penalty for capping and its so easy to maintain enough Maelstrom to maintain your rotation, whats the point of it?

At this point. Stormbringer is more of a resource in the traditional sense than maelstrom. You want to generate it to use your finisher, you dont want it capped.

[Xanda]

No matter what i play, keeping both frostbrand and Fury of air on the ptr is really hard with rockbiter and almost impossible with bouldefist (and tbh not something i'd like to do during an encounter). I hope they'll bring Fury of Air to a reasonable level or bring back the old cost of frostbrand and reduce the damage of hailstorm instead,

[ehxy]

I thought they said they were going to help specs not nerf specs.

[Deleted]

I mean, I have around 18% haste, and I had no issue keeping FoA and HS up at both times when using either HH or WS for a longer time. Personally it felt ok'ish if you just put a little more thought behind your MS gainage and usage, instead of throwing SS around like a silly person.

[MisterBigglez]

I haven't had the chance to test these changes for myself but from the sounds of it people are really overreacting to these nerfs. Oh no! Boulderfist has a slightly longer cd and Frostbrand costs 35 instead of 20, which we only use every 15 seconds or so. I can't believe people are now saying that the spec is no longer fun for them because of these changes.

As for the buffs to certain talents, I welcome them, and I hope to see some being used in the future rather than using the same exact ones on every fight.

[Imnick]

I thought they said they were going to help specs not nerf specs.

What gave you that idea?
We're not even sure this is a significant nerf yet (it probably isn't), Enhancement isn't a spec that needed a buff, and they said no such thing as "we are going to buff everyone in 7.1.5".
What on earth would have made you expect an increase to enhancement dps in a tuning patch?

[ehxy]

What gave you that idea?
We're not even sure this is a significant nerf yet (it probably isn't), Enhancement isn't a spec that needed a buff, and they said no such thing as "we are going to buff everyone in 7.1.5".
What on earth would have made you expect an increase to enhancement dps in a tuning patch?

Who said anything about a buff I just want to get that healing rain talent out of there. I said help, not get buffed. Try again imnick your reading comprehension as usual is just in top form.

[Imnick]

Who said anything about a buff I just want to get that healing rain talent out of there. I said help, not get buffed. Try again imnick your reading comprehension as usual is just in top form.

They're not going to remove the healing rain talent either, it's on a utility tier.
The "help" they wanted to give was with making unpicked talents more viable.

They haven't got there on the first pass but it's very clear progress. Boulderfist still looks like a winner but the gap is smaller, FoA is now worth picking (although now it looks like the only one worth picking so now it needs a bit of attention the other way), Sundering at 20 MP isn't that bad either.
Ascendance, Lightning Shield, and Earthen Spike still need a redesign but we've got further patches for that.

If you weren't talking about a buff, why did you talk about it as if "help" and "nerf" were mutually exclusive?
Making talents competitive pretty much inherently includes making over performing ones relatively weaker.

[Potsu]

Spammy as in you have an ability to hit every GCD and spammy as in you need to hit one ability multiple times in a row to be able to use another are two different play styles and I find the latter extremely boring to play.

I tried to play a rogue but spamming a combo point builder 4 or 5 times then a spender was just a horrendous playstyle (imo and possibly it's not like that anymore I don't know this was before Legion expac) and that is the playstyle I am afraid of having with rockbiter.

[Arachnofiend]

I haven't had the chance to test these changes for myself but from the sounds of it people are really overreacting to these nerfs. Oh no! Boulderfist has a slightly longer cd and Frostbrand costs 35 instead of 20, which we only use every 15 seconds or so. I can't believe people are now saying that the spec is no longer fun for them because of these changes.

As for the buffs to certain talents, I welcome them, and I hope to see some being used in the future rather than using the same exact ones on every fight.

Maybe you should try to test the changes before making commentary on the experiences of people who have.

[MisterBigglez]

Maybe you should try to test the changes before making commentary on the experiences of people who have.

Well I can now say that people are being a bunch of crying babies about the changes because I don't even notice the changes. I am geared however so my experience will be different as I actually have a lot of haste. Just get used to it if you have to, its not a big deal in the slightest.