Something needs to be done about M+ and its negative impact on the game

[Dahti]

No grind in vanilla? Your rose tinted glasses are beet red...

On active servers you ground out pvp (mostly AV) for 40+ hours a week and still probably wouldn't hit high warlord/grand marshall.

It would take a couple weeks (or mind numbing grind sessions) to take factions from hated to exalted. Now you get honored just for doing all the quest in the zone.

Seriously, if you think the grind is worse than vanilla you've repressed a lot of bad memories or didn't play much at 60.

[Regalbeast]

I think that is a very selfish attitude to take. You to rein in other players who have the time for your benefit.

If a player can do more M+ than you, they can acquire more AP. If you cannot compete with them in terms of time, then it is an unfortunate situation for you.

Why must the game be change to suit you more than others?

It's not selfish, it's in line with most other PvE end-game options. Raiding has a weekly lockout, heroic dungeons have a daily lockout, why can't M+ have the same design philosophy?

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No grind in vanilla? Your rose tinted glasses are beet red...

On active servers you ground out pvp (mostly AV) for 40+ hours a week and still probably wouldn't hit high warlord/grand marshall.

It would take a couple weeks (or mind numbing grind sessions) to take factions from hated to exalted. Now you get honored just for doing all the quest in the zone.

Seriously, if you think the grind is worse than vanilla you've repressed a lot of bad memories or didn't play much at 60.

PvP is not PvE.

[Verral]

The solution which might please both hardcore and casual players: remove the freakin' warforged/titanforged/socket RNG nonsense from mythic+ loot.
The higher keystone dungeon you do, the better gear you obtain. But at the same time you can't have a 999 titanforged socket leech avoidance speed from a +3 dungeon.
Seems fair to me.

[shonist]

**Edited - see bottom**

Now before you freak out and tell me I'm stupid, hear me out....

As a former hardcore player (not hardcore progression, but hardcore like 6-7 hours per day) that can only play .5-1 hour a day, M+ is killing the ability for me to progress in terms of gear and AP when compared to other players. M+ is fine in and of itself, it is a fun way to keep dungeons relevant throughout the expansion and gives players something to do. We should not feel forced to run M+ to stay ahead of the curve or even slightly near the curve, that is bad game design.

However, there needs to be a cap on how many times you an run a M+ in a day or in a week OR the rewards need to scale down after you run a certain amount per day. For the majority of players, we don't have time to run M+ all day or even for 4-5 hours in a row. The players that do run these all day have a very, very significant advantage when it comes to AP and gear.

Blizzard has stated that they don't want the game to be just about time sink. Well, Legion is a giant time sink of an expansion, more than I've ever experienced myself (played for 12 years).

If Blizzard wants to stay true to their design philosophies and intent, then they need to put some limits on M+ grinding.

EDIT:

Honestly you guys, instead of flaming and insulting me, how about you come up with something coherent and intelligent in response? Instead of "hur dur time played you suck" maybe you should present an alternative viewpoint? Or is that expecting too much?

Tell me what you have against capping M+ runs at let's say 14 a week, that's 2 per day.

cant understand, ive done i think 5 M+ since they are out there, and im doing well in the game.

[Regalbeast]

The solution which might please both hardcore and casual players: remove the freakin' warforged/titanforged/socket RNG nonsense from mythic+ loot.
The higher keystone dungeon you do, the better gear you obtain. But at the same time you can't have a 999 titanforged socket leech avoidance speed from a +3 dungeon.
Seems fair to me.

Yeah, the Diablo style of loot is a whole other topic entirely.

[Boyinawell]

It's not selfish, it's in line with most other PvE end-game options. Raiding has a weekly lockout, heroic dungeons have a daily lockout, why can't M+ have the same design philosophy?

Again, you ignore people asking you to justify why other players should be hindered because you have low play time.

Why should it have the same design philosophy? Have both options, one gated content and one not, so that different people with different preferences and different play times can do their own thing.

Not class everyone together in the same "1 hour a day" group and make all content for that group. They've created tiers of content suitable for the vast amount of tiers of players they have. You want to rid the game of that variety because you are sad about a non important number.

Unlimited time to play? Chain mythics? 7-8 hours a week? Find a heroic raiding guild! 7 hours a week but casual? Normal raiding! less than 7 hours a week? WQ's and dungeons!

All of these options have AP and gear rewards, unique goals, and stories content. Making them all even would disintegrate the player base.

[Servasus]

As a mythic raider, I agree with you OP. But most of the people here won't because a lot of them are the elitist of the elite. Or they think they are, anyway. In reality they're the ones with the time to spend playing 12 hours a day doing literally nothing but grinding dungeons.

As a mythic raider, it's never been harder to stay with the curve of progression or above it. To the degree that I'd say it takes more than 5 times as much time and dedication as it used to with the same or lower reward (since the new ilevel scaling makes loot easier to obtain in lower difficulties.)

Not only that, but EN and ToV are both just poorly designed raids. ToV feels like it was literally slapped together in a weekend by cherry picking from heroic dungeon mechanics, and EN is a boring representation of what the Emerald Nightmare should have been. All in all, I'm not impressed with the raids AND the grind is worse than it's ever been. Not a great combination, tbh.

But this type of content is what the casual playerbase gobbles up, so Blizzard won't see a significant sub loss to make any drastic changes. That's how I feel, anyway.

[shaunika123]

if they'd capped mythic runs/week
yoU'd be here the next day crying how everyone is already done with their mythic runs for the week but you only have time to play on mondays and tuesdays so you cant find a group.

[Beckers]

I raid and don't feel like I need M+ to stay relevant at all.

Why do you feel like that?

[Goldielocks]

Someone who puts more time into the game than you, deserves to be further in progression than you. That's all there is to it.

If you don't like it, then stop playing an MMO.

[Regalbeast]

Again, you ignore people asking you to justify why other players should be hindered because you have low play time.

Why should it have the same design philosophy? Have both options, one gated content and one not, so that different people with different preferences and different play times can do their own thing.

Not class everyone together in the same "1 hour a day" group and make all content for that group. They've created tiers of content suitable for the vast amount of tiers of players they have. You want to rid the game of that variety because you are sad about a non important number.

Unlimited time to play? Chain mythics? 7-8 hours a week? Find a heroic raiding guild! 7 hours a week but casual? Normal raiding! less than 7 hours a week? WQ's and dungeons!

All of these options have AP and gear rewards, unique goals, and stories content. Making them all even would disintegrate the player base.

Again, I'm not calling for everyone to play 1 hour a day. I'm not even calling for people to play 3 hours a day. I'm saying the current system is broken if it rewards endless play (something Blizzard has tried to move away from, until now).

I suggested a 14 M+ dung limit per week. I know people that are running 14 a day and it's insane, there is no way that is good game design.

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if they'd capped mythic runs/week
yoU'd be here the next day crying how everyone is already done with their mythic runs for the week but you only have time to play on mondays and tuesdays so you cant find a group.

Nope, definitely would not. I've never been mad about a lockout.

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Someone who puts more time into the game than you, deserves to be further in progression than you. That's all there is to it.

If you don't like it, then stop playing an MMO.

Again, this is true to a point, but it's bad game design and Blizzard has stated that as well. That's why M+ dungeons are ruining the game for the large majority of the player-base (no data to back that up, so don't ask....but I'm sure I'm not alone as the 'average' player IMO). I'm not alone in this feeling, either.

[shaunika123]

Nope, definitely would not. I've never been mad about a lockout.

and ive never been mad about infinite content

THE POINT IS, that some(or a lot rather) people would

[Saiona]

I barely do any and I'm 878 with a bis legendary

[last1214]

There has been limits on the amount of power a player can gain in a week in every single expansion for the history of wow up until now. Artifact power is the first and only thing with no weekly cap or limit on it. Feels like a giant experiment.

I think most reasonable people can agree if they were to remove the number of times you could run a heroic or mythic raid per week, that would not be healthy to the game. I would argue to a much lesser degree this falls under the same category.

Not that we all need to be equal anyway. I just feel more compelled to play a more unhealthy amount than what I did in past expansions.

[Boyinawell]

Again, I'm not calling for everyone to play 1 hour a day. I'm not even calling for people to play 3 hours a day. I'm saying the current system is broken if it rewards endless play (something Blizzard has tried to move away from, until now).

I suggested a 14 M+ dung limit per week. I know people that are running 14 a day and it's insane, there is no way that is good game design.

For the first time ever I always have something to do in a video game, and that thing potentially offers me a relevant reward.

I don't grasp how that's bad game design. Yea, there are drawbacks - none of which will get fixed with a 14 mythic/week cap.

I'm not saying the system is perfect. I am saying limiting other players has literally no impact on your 7-10 hours a week of wow.

[shaunika123]

Nope, definitely would not. I've never been mad about a lockout.

and ive never been mad about infinite content

THE POINT IS, that some(or a lot rather) people would

i kinda like that no matter when i log in i have something to do
i hated that in mop/wod you logged in done a few things every wednesday and then bam you only logged in to raid
there's a reason everyone had 75 million alts in wod, because there was nothing to do on your main
now there is and people are up in arms about it.

yes you could put a cap on it, but no matter what the eventual number would be it'd feel arbitrary.
it'd either be high enough as to be insignificant, or too low and people ran out of content.

[cFortyfive]

Tell me what you have against capping M+ runs at let's say 14 a week, that's 2 per day.

Absolutely agree. M+ is hands down the most rewarding content at the moment to the point it's getting absurdly ridiculous. Obviously the usual retards have an issue with that fact.

[Hayro1]

TIL 6-7 hours a day is hardcore lol, or at least "was." God forbid people who have time can be further along than you, why should content be gated (all of a sudden, after all this time) because your schedule is crappy? if people can play more, they SHOULD be ahead of you, no question about that. My friend plays way more than I did when I was playing, and he got ahead of me on an alt, because he plays waaay more than me, am I crying? lol not even close.

[TITAN308]

What does me running 5 mythic+'s a day effect you? Are you in my guild? Are you competing directly with me?

Usually what this comes down to is OP, or someone like OP is really upset at their social circle of friends in WoW treating them poorly and it has nothing to do with game design.

[muto]

I still have 840 trinkets and close to 100 Mythic+ completed, so that grinding hasn't been as kind as you'd like to think.