A Simple Argument for the Tinker Class

[munkeyinorbit]

Nah man, people on this forum circlejerk over tinkers about the same as demon hunters.

They circle jerked over monks too. Then they got monks and everyone went soft.

[Deleted]

1. Roll a hunter,
2. Roll BM, use gun mog on MM or a mechanical mog on Survival
3. Get your mechanical pet. (Gnomes and Goblins get one off the bat and can also tame them off the bat)
4. Profit

Yes, that's how you can pretend to be an engineer/tinker too.

So the main reasoning behind not introducing the Tinker class is because it's roll is filled by the engineer profession, right? But in my opinion the two are not one in the same. Take Warriors, for instance. Warrior class fantasy is all about two things: Armor and Weapons. Yet the Warrior doesn't forge their armor and weapons, the Blacksmiths do. A warrior CAN be a blacksmith, but it isn't necessary. The engineers only supply the gear and tools tinkers use and modify, its up to the tinker to use those tools effectively in the heat of battle.

By that logic it should be called Machinist, if anything. :P

[Flarelaine]

Engineering is a profession in World of Warcraft. If you want it as a class, go to Guild Wars 2.

[Shibito]

The main reasoning behind not introducing the Tinker class is that there are already too many classes they can't get right.

butbut people want a new easymode range class

[Rotted]

Nah,

Give us a new radical class,

Necromancer - Squishy as fuck, doesn't get directly involved in combat but summons multitudes of minions.

or

Some sort of support - just providing minor damage, but massive temp buffs to damage, tanks or healers,

Something not generic, something completely new (mechanic wise, obv necromancer =/= dk someone will say) out of the box thinking. To me tinker doesn't match that description.

[Vaelorian]

Please for the love of whatever... take your tinker(er) and put it someplace where all the fanboys can discuss about stuff that will hopefully never happen.
So we got the Deathknight. So we got the Demonhunter. So we got the Monk. These things have been added. What was left? Oh yeah "The Bard" and "The Tinker".

next on the list has more to do with races. OMG OMG Vrykul!! Naga!!! Ogres!!! Or even "halfdragons" have been mentioned.

Please stop it. Discussing stuff about "what if" does not mean shit. And dreaming about it on a forum does not get you anywhere either. Better off discussing it amongst your friends ingame or RL. And if you were my friend... I'll tell you to shut it.

[Stockers]

They circle jerked over monks too. Then they got monks and everyone went soft.

That was only when they were announced and confirmed as being a class, no one mentioned them before. But people have been wanking each other off for years over the idea of tinkers and demon hunters.

[tikcol]

Tinkers made more sense than demon hunters.

They had to add a class with wings though

[Kolvarg]

Only problem is: which expansion theme would fit Tinker? I don't think they ever create Goblins & Gnomes expansion: consternation level would match Mist of Pandaria announcement ;P.

I can see a South Seas expansion (which is a fair candidate to happen in the near future) involving a return to Kezan / other goblin islands and/or some development regarding Gnomeregan, for instance.

Sure, on scratch it doesn't ties in as directly as DKs with WotLK/Monks with MoP/DHs with Lgn. But then again, if they can justify an expansion with "Oh, we don't kill Garrosh he just gets arrested but then escapes and travels to the past of another dimension to raise an army of old-world orcs", I'm sure they can come up with something to explain the introduction of tinkers in some way.

In the end, even if that hasn't reflected in classes yet, gameplay always trumps lore in WoW. And as I said it wouldn't be that hard for them to have it make some sense.

Please for the love of whatever...

"I don't like this idea, therefore you shouldn't discuss it!"




I really don't understand all this "hate". It's ok to not like things. People have different tastes and that's fine. It's ok and expected that some people don't like and don't want Tinker to be a class in WoW. But if you're gonna talk about it at least try to say something that makes sense.

Arguments like "oh if you want Engineer as class go play Guild Wars 2" - sure. Why add anything new to the game? Just go play other games! Perfect solution to everything, don't even need any more patches or expansions, you can have that in other games.

Or the so repeated "You already have engineering as a profession" - As OP compares so well, profession =/= class. Anyone can have engineering class, and you use them to CRAFT some gadgets, SOME of them you CAN use in combat to a VERY SMALL extent. You never get to use them as THE main way to engage in combat. You can't create mechasuits (gazlowe-style) to fight with either. Engineering is as equal to Tinker as class as Blacksmithing to being a Warrior, or crafting a staff to being a Mage, or crafting a Gun to being a Hunter.
I mean, with that logic we wouldn't even need any classes. Just have everyone play as Warrior by default - they can use every weapon type, therefore they fullfil every class fantasy! Want to play a mage? Just equip a staff on your Warrior. Done! - Doesn't make sense, does it? Just like Tinker = Engineering doesn't.

[Ielenia]

So the main reasoning behind not introducing the Tinker class is because it's roll is filled by the engineer profession, right? But in my opinion the two are not one in the same. Take Warriors, for instance. Warrior class fantasy is all about two things: Armor and Weapons. Yet the Warrior doesn't forge their armor and weapons, the Blacksmiths do. A warrior CAN be a blacksmith, but it isn't necessary. The engineers only supply the gear and tools tinkers use and modify, its up to the tinker to use those tools effectively in the heat of battle.

First off: like pointed out, the Warrior class' name doesn't imply it forges its own weapons and armor.

Second: the vast majority of engineering items you make require you to have a certain level of engineering skill. You do not need to have certain blacksmithing skill levels to wield weapons and armor created by them. Take, for example, dynamite. All dynamite made by engineers require engineering skill to use, except one: "EZ-Thro Dynamite" What does that tell us? That technology items need to be 'simple' to be able to be used by others.

With that in mind, consider the arsenal a technology-based class would have. I honestly doubt a technology-based class would have just simple dynamites and wields a gun. It would have all the fancy tech in the world for themselves. So, judging by what we know, the technology-based class can't be just a common schmuck that got himself a nice tech arsenal. It has to be someone knowledgeable about what they're wielding and what they're doing. They have to be engineers.

- - - Updated - - -

Some sort of support - just providing minor damage, but massive temp buffs to damage, tanks or healers,

The issue with that type of class is that not only it doesn't fit with WoW's "holy trinity" (tank, healer, DPS), but also such a class would be basically mandatory in every single raid group. I mean, raid groups today are already considered 'gimped' when they don't have a shaman or mage for heroism/bloodlust/timewarp, or at the very least a Hunter with a core hound.

[Fiddlewick]

Nah,

Give us a new radical class,

Necromancer - Squishy as fuck, doesn't get directly involved in combat but summons multitudes of minions.

or

Some sort of support - just providing minor damage, but massive temp buffs to damage, tanks or healers,

Something not generic, something completely new (mechanic wise, obv necromancer =/= dk someone will say) out of the box thinking. To me tinker doesn't match that description.

As the poster above me (Ielenia) mentioned, a support class would break the trinity.
As for a Necromancer, it sounds just like the "class fantsy" of demonology warlocks in legion, with some inspiration from Unholy DKs
Besides, it would need 3 specs. I don't see them doing that with Necromancer without basically just stealing from warlocks and dks. (Warlocks don't need another spec stolen)
The specs I see as viable would then be: A. Tank, completely new, tanking with the pet, but then again, pet AI is awful. (Or turning into a giant undead yourself, like meta from dh) B. Summoning-style. Like demonology. C. Spreading diseases like an unholy dk, or affli warlock.

[Kolvarg]

First off: like pointed out, the Warrior class' name doesn't imply it forges its own weapons and armor.

How does that matter? Demon Hunter class' name doesn't imply it's someone who gives in to demonic power and uses glaives. It implies it someone who hunts demon - literally something every other class does in Legion. Non-issue.

Warriors USE weapons and armor, which might have been forged by themselves - or not. They use weapons and armor that wasn't crafted by players, too. Every class does this, too, but Warrior excells in weapon-usage, is able to use any weapon type, and is especially good with certain "classic" weapons.
Tinkers USE weapons and devices, which might have been crafted by themselves - or not. They can use weapons and gadgets that wasn't crafted by players too. Even though every class can choose to pursue Engineering (or use some of the devices created by them), Tinkers excell in using this devices, and use them as their main combat approach.

They have to be engineers.

Maybe, maybe not. A blacksmith needs to know a lot about ores, but you don't necessarily need to have Mining to do Blacksmithing. An alchemist needs to know a lot about herbs, but doesn't necessairly need to have Herbalism.

Some items crafted by engineers require engineering skill to use because that makes the engineering skill more unique and valuable to have - gameplay reasons, not necessarily lore or logic reasons. If anyone could use everything engineering makes, what would the point of having an engineering character? You could just buy everything. That restriction is clearly there to make the profession more fun (the fun and more powerful items are locked to the profession).

Even otherwise, it could be implied that Engineering knowledge is so intrinsic to Tinkers that they wouldn't need to actively engage in Engineering as a profession, as that usage knowledge (which doesn't necessarily require crafting knowledge) is part of the class itself. Also, it could even completly be a class that ties in with the Engineering profession in some way, even if that meant always having 1 profession slot locked to Engineering - I'd be fine with that.


They already exist in the game lore too, and even the mechasuits have gotten recent spotlight:

[Ielenia]

They already exist in the game lore too, and even the mechasuits have gotten recent spotlight:

You do know that's Mekkatorque, right? One of, if not the biggest engineers known in Azeroth.

[Selastan]

Even otherwise, it could be implied that Engineering knowledge is so intrinsic to Tinkers that they wouldn't need to actively engage in Engineering as a profession, as that usage knowledge (which doesn't necessarily require crafting knowledge) is part of the class itself.

Exactly! Just because you know how to cook doesn't mean you have to work as a chef. Professions are just that, work. They get you money or the ability to make your own gear free of labor costs. Just cause I like to drive a sports car doesn't mean I have to know how the hell it works, that's what I have a mechanic for.

[Deleted]

I don't get this whole hyping and crying about that Tinker thing. What's supposed to be so special about it?

Necromancer - Squishy as fuck, doesn't get directly involved in combat but summons multitudes of minions.

This thing is called Demonology Warlock at the moment. Except that you do get a little involved in battle.

[Edlarel]

Here's something I whipped up to help explain an expansion for the class.

New Expansion Concept
The defeat of Azshara after she wounded Azeroth’s world soul to gain ultimate power has necessitated a reordering of the world itself. With the help of Algalon, Mimir, and a few other master engineers such as Gelbin Mekkatorque and Trade Prince Gazlow, the reply code to activate the reset was dialed back enough to not kill every living entity. Instead, many of the races who previously succumbed to the curse of flesh have started to see members of their families changing back into what they once were. Even more interesting are the effects on races not native to Azeroth.

But the reordering has done more than affect the nascent titan’s people. Her very body heaves with power at the restoration after so long being drained and tapped for power. Regions deep within Azeroth open at last to reveal the inner world, where oceans of glistening oil and ancient evils stir; where a war wages that only those with an eye for engineering were even aware of.

:Races:
* Tauren-sized vrykul are introduced as a subrace for humans, while many orcs find themselves changed to mok’nathol.
* Mechagnomes and iron dwarves join in battle against drogbar goblins and undead kvaldir.
* Optionally change your human, orc, gnome, dwarf, goblin, or undead into one of the new races as you’re affected by the reorder. This is a one-time opportunity (except for a later paid race change).

:Classes:
The Tinker comes to Azeroth! Go to battle against the mechanical races who have broken out of Azeroth’s center by fighting tech with tech using this new hero class, which starts at 118 and progresses to current content at 120 after a short introductory scenario in which you follow Gelbin or Gazlow to steal the parts you need from a mech encampment at the edge of the Glistening Sea. Play as a tank, ranged dps, or healer. The tank spec can also switch modes to shredder for a little more melee power (similar to gladiator for warriors).

:Content:
Visit New Zones as you travel into Azeroth to not only finish healing the world wound caused by Azshara’s magic, but also to stem the tide of battle against the mechanicals who believe the flesh-bound races and their allies have ruined their home. Level scaling continues, allowing you to choose to where you go during the leveling process. Assist Mimiron in setting up way-gates and underground trains to get from zones like Undermine (the goblin capital and neutral hub of the expansion) to zones across the world quickly (like Azjol Nerub in Northrend). Inner-world zones across all of Azeroth make this the most expansive content update yet.

Continue on the path of the Titans that started with the sacrifice of Azeroth’s greatest artifacts and empowered you against the forces of Azshara and N’zoth. This alternate progression path adds new markers for purchase with Azeroth’s blood, dubbed titan energy that you can turn into experience for leveling, currency for purchasing equipment, or more power akin to how artifacts grew.

Earn the Earth-Mother’s favor with a new faction and mount up on your own Gyre-worm. Never wait for a train again as you ride your worm into the gyre-tunnels and quickly travel to new zones. New mechanical mounts can be earned as well which allow for flying, swimming, and/or wall-climbing within the world’s deepest caverns. The digital deluxe and collector’s edition gets you a special gyre-worm mount as well as a new mechanical companion pet.

Delve into some of Azeroth’s greatest histories with new proto-troll, mechagnome, and qiraji archaeology projects. Mine new ores, discover mech-weave, and pick underground plants to collect glistening oil, which can be used to power up crafted equipment or cook some of the finest food this side of the surface.

…And more!

The underside of Azeroth awaits.

[Soulwind]

You do know that's Mekkatorque, right? One of, if not the biggest engineers known in Azeroth.

So what? Illidan was the greatest demon hunter and now there are hundreds of thousands like him.

[Vaelorian]

"I don't like this idea, therefore you shouldn't discuss it!"

Actually I am indifferent to adding new classes. From a balance pov it would be idiotic. But what do I know?
What grinds my gear is that this topic seems to pop up every other week. And all the "kids" throw themselves at it on how cool it would be. And then all the naysayers say that it would not work and that the profession already makes up the "Tinker".

It is a pointless and endless discussion. Blizzard knows about the "wish" to create such a class.. what else is there to discuss?
I seriously would like anyone who comes up with a class and actually creates these abilities including damage %-parameters - to go to see professional help.

You know I was once a D&D player. I made countless characters. This was my joy if I was not playing D&D. Created entire backgrounds for these characters I would never play. Would you like me to spam the D&D forums about what new character I just made? Who cares? It is not a character that will be added to regular campaigns or included in books. The same happens with these pointless threads.

You want a Tinker? Yes? Blizzard knows you guys do. Will they create one? Who knows. Demonhunter got made. So I guess there is a chance. Just stop discussing it.

[Kolvarg]

You do know that's Mekkatorque, right? One of, if not the biggest engineers known in Azeroth.

Not really, he's fairly small. I reckon the biggest engineer will be a tauren or ogre or something.

Jokes aside, of course I know that's Mekkatorque. I also know that no (playable) engineer can craft steam armor / mechasuit, and certainly not operate it as their primary combat methodology.

He's also considered to be a tinker (as well as a Warrior), class-wise.

Crafting stuff =/= using that stuff. The name is not important. What matters is:
- The profession allows you to craft gadgets. Some of which require engineering skill to use (for gameplay purposes).
- The class allows you to use gadgets, even ones you didn't craft, and certainly many that don't exist yet and would simply be part of the class abilities.

Engineering is about crafting gadgets. Tinker (or whatever other name mgiht fight) is about using technology and gadgets as the primary way of combat.

As suggested in this thread, they could even rename the profession to "Tinkering" and the class to "Engineer" or something else that specifically suggests combat by tecnology, which perhaps would make a bit more sense.

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You want a Tinker? Yes? Blizzard knows you guys do. Will they create one? Who knows. Demonhunter got made. So I guess there is a chance. Just stop discussing it.

Or, maaaaaybe, you can choose not to enter such threads if you don't want to read that discussion?

Yes, it's a repeated topic. Just like many others (dare I say most?) out here and in many other forums. People like to talk about the things they like/want, even if they're just repeating themselves. No one's forcing you to participate or read.

Is it pointless? Likely. Is it any more pointless than most discussion on this forum? Unlikely.

[Thelxi]

I don't think they would do tinker. I doubt they would be more popular than monks, and thematically it is barely justifiable what with engineering but also hunters.

Maaybe if they came out with an expansion that added multiple classes, but otherwise I really wouldn't get my hopes up.