Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Kyanion]

You're asking the million dollar question lol. All sorts of possibilities why. Perhaps blizzard is worried that releasing an older version of the game will be admitting faults with the current product? Or maybe it really is *that* tough to actually release it? Or perhaps they think there really is not much interest in older games? All sorts of possibilities. I'm not claiming to hold all the answers here, just engaging in a fun debate. What Kern says about the software makes sense too, given all of the technological advancements, it's hard to believe that the hardware side of things would be a big financial issue. Back to the question though, given past comments like "you think you do but you don't" it's not a big stretch for many people that blizzard honestly thinks they know people will not enjoy a game when they've repeatedly been told the opposite.



We've already seen it done with other games, Runescape for example, we have just seen the Nintendo Classic sell out of stores lol. Will it require some work? Sure. Is it impossible? Nah. Worth trying out? Given the market and what we've seen, my opinion is that it makes complete sense to try it.




Sound logic - report posts in thread so the thread won't close down. You must not frequent these forums often..

Will keep this short and sweet as well since you bore me.

Runescape =/= WoW, the comparison does not even fucking come close. Emulation/Runescape/Diablo2 =/= to what Blizz would do with Legacy WoW. WoW is far more complex in what is required to get running with Bnet and the things Blizz wants to do, they have said this in interviews that it would be a lot of work to get this happening.. But hey take Kern's word for it because 12 years ago and 2016 are the same thing, just plug and play or something!

Again, if those posts continue to happen mods have said they WILL shut down this thread. This thread isn't the typical thread here that gets shut down when people start bitching at each other.

[Mahourai]

I agree. even better would be random grouping for tbc heroics - that would be a sure-fire wild ride every time until group broke up after repeated wipes.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but TBC heroic auto-grouping wouldn't be any more or less successful than recruiting people out of trade chat. It's not like you see - err, saw, ahem - people exhaustively gearchecking for H Slave Pens or whatever.

[Kyanion]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but TBC heroic auto-grouping wouldn't be any more or less successful than recruiting people out of trade chat. It's not like you see - err, saw, ahem - people exhaustively gearchecking for H Slave Pens or whatever.

Yeah but heroic groups back then would be really selective on what they bring to try and stack CC (mages being a highly recruited choice) where other specs would be avoided. If it was auto-group forming some groups would just be behind the 8-ball on what they'd have to do in the run.

[Ielenia]

You've been ducking points I've made over and over, come up with lame excuses like "legacy servers won't do well because people want to play for free", get debunked, and then change topics and can't admit to being incorrect. Good riddance.

I just wanted to clarify something: I've made several points about why I think Legacy Servers wouldn't work out in the long run. You just picked one similar to that one in the quote, latched onto it like it's a lifeline, and distorted it over and over until it became your "prized argument" against me. As for me 'ducking points'? I responded to all of your "points" that could be sensibly be responded, and even pointed out flaws in your logic and errors in your claims. Like your claim that setting up legacy servers is easy because "a bunch of guys did it". And what do you do? Instead of actually informing yourself to make sure what you think you know is actually true or not, you, just like a spoiled child, stomp your feet against the ground and keep insisting on your mistake, despite having been shown, over and over, by several people, that what you were saying was wrong.

Well? Go read the link in my post. Said "bunch of guys" will explain to you why it's nowhere near as easy as you claim to set up legacy servers. And, lastly? "To debunk" means "to expose the falseness or hollowness of (an idea or belief)". It doesn't mean "to fabricate lies to ridicule and discredit opposition". You did a whole lot of the latter... and practically nothing of the former.

[Mahourai]

Yeah but heroic groups back then would be really selective on what they bring to try and stack CC (mages being a highly recruited choice) where other specs would be avoided. If it was auto-group forming some groups would just be behind the 8-ball on what they'd have to do in the run.

You could succeed in most dungeons even with a suboptimal group, especially after some of the balance changes went in. Again, I don't fetishize the "pre-nerf" state.

Also, the TBC group finder could enforce stricter group requirements than the one implemented in Wrath - e.g. it could attempt to prioritize groups with optimal CC configurations or something. Still better than nothing.

[Kyanion]

snip.

It isn't worth arguing with him anymore. He is one of those that believe people that ran an emulator are on par with what is required if Blizz was to make Legacy servers happen despite Blizz saying it would not be an easy task to make these realms happen. Then to top off the craziness he invokes Kern as if someone from 12 years ago would know exactly what is required of Blizz to make these realms happen in 2016.

- - - Updated - - -

You could succeed in most dungeons even with a suboptimal group, especially after some of the balance changes went in. Again, I don't fetishize the "pre-nerf" state.

Also, the TBC group finder could enforce stricter group requirements than the one implemented in Wrath - e.g. it could attempt to prioritize groups with optimal CC configurations or something. Still better than nothing.

Hmm that is quite true, I used to run the dungeons so much during the pre-nerf state and didn't need to do them much in the latter part of the expansion. But yeah I guess they could do things to make it work if they decided to make that a thing in older realms if they released them. Then again some Legacy people would shit a brick if they didn't have to wait 20+ mins to form a group and head out to the dungeon.

[wunksta]

So maybe I'm just not getting it but what's appealing about staying on a vanilla server, where nothing changes and you keep running the same content over and over again?

[Relapses]

So maybe I'm just not getting it but what's appealing about staying on a vanilla server, where nothing changes and you keep running the same content over and over again?

If you drink the Legacy Kool-Aid, it also means that we rewind time to 2004 and the exact conditions which allowed WoW to become prosperous mysterious re-emerge and WoW will have 27 billion concurrent subscribers by the year 2018.

[Tome]

So maybe I'm just not getting it but what's appealing about staying on a vanilla server, where nothing changes and you keep running the same content over and over again?

Because it's fun.

[Deleted]

So maybe I'm just not getting it but what's appealing about staying on a vanilla server, where nothing changes and you keep running the same content over and over again?

It is all about the journey. In my opinion, everything in vanilla is more fun than retail today.
But you also do not have to understand or get this - it is just the same old truth that different people enjoy different things.

If you are not interested in legacy servers, then just let them pass you by..

[Relapses]

It is all about the journey. In my opinion, everything in vanilla is more fun than retail today.
But you also do not have to understand or get this - it is just the same old truth that different people enjoy different things.

If you are not interested in legacy servers, then just let them pass you by..

I'm all for turning a blind eye to things which do not affect me. But the implication that Blizzard needs to drop everything it's doing to develop Legacy realms is one which should alarm any paying retail customer since it's the kind of thing which would cause fragmentation of the playerbase on top of potentially delaying currently scheduled content. I don't think many of the people who argue against Legacy are arguing because they can't stand other people liking different things than themselves but more that there's a collective selfishness about the importance of Legacy supporters' viewpoint.

[MoanaLisa]

Infractions happened shortly after you started this jazz with "I'm gonna tell on you to the mods" lol. We can read between the lines man, you are embarassing yourself here. First you were acting like a tough guy about running to the mods, now you deny it.

Infractions started to happen because I started heavily moderating the thread after the thread title was changed. No one told me to do anything nor have I acted on reported posts which those who know me at all would confirm.

Now, stop discussing moderation or there will be additional infractions. If none of this is clear, PM me and we can discuss it. Keep it out of the thread.

[voidillusion]

I'm all for turning a blind eye to things which do not affect me. But the implication that Blizzard needs to drop everything it's doing to develop Legacy realms is one which should alarm any paying retail customer since it's the kind of thing which would cause fragmentation of the playerbase on top of potentially delaying currently scheduled content. I don't think many of the people who argue against Legacy are arguing because they can't stand other people liking different things than themselves but more that there's a collective selfishness about the importance of Legacy supporters' viewpoint.

I totally understand what you say, but i wouldnt call it a collective selfishness about the importante of legacy. It's more likely to be a collective astonishment for something that in principle would be easy for them to deliver without impacting anything else but their profit temporarly yet they remain hesitant to say the least.

[Ielenia]

I totally understand what you say, but i wouldnt call it a collective selfishness about the importante of legacy. It's more likely to be a collective astonishment for something that in principle would be easy for them to deliver without impacting anything else but their profit temporarly yet they remain hesitant to say the least.

You see, the issue comes when you realize that what I bolded in your post only "rings true" to those with zero knowledge how businesses and programming work. Blizzard have explained that, while they technically have the code, it's not in any usable form. It's chopped up to bits, scattered among many, many version control saves, with some parts of it having been lost to the times, as they didn't use 'version control' from the very beginning.

In other words? We have a big jigsaw puzzle, with its pieces scattered inside many different jigsaw boxes, and with some pieces missing altogether. Finding all those pieces would be a chore, in and of itself, not to mention making them fit together again, and make new pieces to replace the lost ones.

[voidillusion]

You see, the issue comes when you realize that what I bolded in your post only "rings true" to those with zero knowledge how businesses and programming work. Blizzard have explained that, while they technically have the code, it's not in any usable form. It's chopped up to bits, scattered among many, many version control saves, with some parts of it having been lost to the times, as they didn't use 'version control' from the very beginning.

In other words? We have a big jigsaw puzzle, with its pieces scattered inside many different jigsaw boxes, and with some pieces missing altogether. Finding all those pieces would be a chore, in and of itself, not to mention making them fit together again, and make new pieces to replace the lost ones.

In principle, easy to deliver without impacting anything else but their profit <- This was what i said. This wasnt said in abstract, was said in the context that we're talking about Blizzard, not Tom the programmer with his friend Tim the IT manager. It's Blizzard, if they wanted, in their context, it would be easy, not free, not without consequences in their profit and workteams but easy.

Things like "only rings true to those with 0 knowledge" yaddayadda probably make you feel high and might, but relax, there are other ppl in the world that know as much or more than you, i know it's hard to believe, shocking, but there are. So relax on the condescending tone please.

[rda]

Guys, stop talking about code and bits and pieces, it's like listening to five-year olds in the kindergarten talk about what drives rockets flying to the moon.

They have the code.

They have to make changes to that code to make it usable / acceptable.

This is a serious effort. Doable, but not easily.

The end.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, apologies for being blunt, but nonsense like this - "... while they technically have the code, it's not in any usable form. It's chopped up to bits, scattered among many, many version control saves, with some parts of it ..." - has to stop at some point.

[Flarelaine]

If you drink the Legacy Kool-Aid, it also means that we rewind time to 2004

Now that you put it this way, I'm beginning to like the idea. If they can do that, I'll sign up. I was generally happier in 2004.

[Ehuehuecopter]

Wow you are wrong.

A) Been playing since Open Beta. I was stuck in MC during vanilla because my guild was stuck there and I have never been the guy that love leaving guild and I never taught I could be with those that clear top content. Looking at what I have done, I was wrong.

B) I did play legacy. I was stop when the event that lead to the creation of this thread happened. So I got kick out 5 months in.

C) I know scheduled raider (no need to be hardcore for that) are not 100% of the player base. The MC was in a LFR format and what you saw there was LFR player so yes, those are "kill first try or I out".

D) Stop with the TW version. Old raid was all about each dps class having a role outside of just dpsing. Mage decurse, Hunter de-erange, warlock Banish. You cannot bring that now, you cannot ask right now a warlock to sit right next to a mobs the entire fight to banish him or he might break and kill everyone, partial resist making the time the mobs debanish random.

No I'm not.

A-B are not really of any interest in this discussion.

C - The problem is that the "LFR-People" you label, are actually the majority of Wow players and therefore we need to admit that the attitude of wow players has gone worse over those 12 years

After years of "istant gratification" people have now a mind-set "ASAP ASAP" and throwing the Vanilla Legacy server with the Vanilla old-mind set isnt really a smart thing.

TW version is still a nice idea, with a meh implementation.

[Uurdz]

It's been quite a while since I posted in this thread but it looks like nothing new has been discussed!

I think what both sides miss, is that Blizzard won't do this even if they had sufficient fans to make it profitable. Today's customer is addicted to sound bites - quick and easy to digest news and games. Blizzard are probably going to keep making their cash cows from their multiverse but steering towards micro transactions like we see in hearthstone and Hots. It's pretty clear that making vanilla servers would be a considerable investment (ref to the nost dev posts & Tom chilton) which would eat into a new game (diablo 4, wow expansion, sc3?) and it won't make any sense to invest into an old game that has no future. Maybe they'll do it when WoW wraps up but by that time people and gaming will likely have move on.

[Ielenia]

In principle, easy to deliver without impacting anything else but their profit <- This was what i said.

On that same token, anything is easy to deliver, even the defunct Project Titan. Every new project they create negatively impacts their profits, until said project is finished and returns its investment (either through micro-transactions and/or by having a box price.)

The vanilla code is not only fragmented through various version check saves, but also some bits and pieces have been lost to time. And depending on how fragmented it is and how many parts of it have been lost, it might be "easier to deliver" and get a bigger investment return to make a new game altogether.

- - - Updated - - -

Guys, stop talking about code and bits and pieces, it's like listening to five-year olds in the kindergarten talk about what drives rockets flying to the moon.

They have the code.

They have to make changes to that code to make it usable / acceptable.

This is a serious effort. Doable, but not easily.

The end.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, apologies for being blunt, but nonsense like this - "... while they technically have the code, it's not in any usable form. It's chopped up to bits, scattered among many, many version control saves, with some parts of it ..." - has to stop at some point.

And you should stop talking, if you have no idea what you're talking about.