Study: Majority of muslim students training to be teachers in Germany deny evolution

[Slant]

Wikipedia already cites betwen 3 and 4 million muslims in 2009 as mentioned by private organizations. I'm not sure how accurate your guestimate is here based on feeling. I doubt it will be 20, but I find more than 4 more than feasible.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%B...in_Deutschland

I mainly looked at Turks, since other Muslim groups aren't really that significant. I think I may have looked at Sunnites or some other stuff. I can live with your number, 3-4 million Muslims doesn't change my argument dramatically. Heck, let it be 5-6 million and it wouldn't change my argument.

[Narwal]

No, im mad because of the sheer stupidity of the conservstive people. We cant replicate the human evolution, unless you have the 700-1000 millions of years to spare and the exact same conditions (worldwide) on all of those 700-1000 millions of years

So you can't say for sure that species are not just placed here by aliens? That they aren't just genetically modifying species in space and testing out the designs on earth?

[Thepersona]

Maybe you understand your conundrum.

That doesnt mean evolution doesnt exist or it cant be proven. We have proven evolution (see: superbugs) on the micro and macro enviroments (london subway mosquito)

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So you can't say for sure that species are not just placed here by aliens? That they aren't just genetically modifying species in space and testing out the designs on earth?

Thats unfalsifiable tho lol
And its just part of intelligent design, just replacing aliens with any deity

[Zyster]

That doesnt mean evolution doesnt exist or it cant be proven. We have proven evolution (see: superbugs) on the micro and macro enviroments (london subway mosquito)

Proving evolution on he level of microorganisms essentially does != proof to human evolution. You already undeniably admitted you can't prove it. Yet we teach it. Talk about unfalsifiable.

[rosebull]

religion it still exist and peopel believe in it

Religion is quite literally the bane of this planet.

When all is said and done, the vast VAST majority of wars from the dawn of time until now have for the most part started due to religion or religious conflicts. Wars started over made up BS. Its pretty crazy if you think about it.

[Calfredd]

Proving evolution on he level of microorganisms essentially does != proof to human evolution. You already undeniably admitted you can't prove it. Yet we teach it. Talk about unfalsifiable.

We teach it because it can be proven. It takes a long time to see changes in long-lived creatures such as humans and bears so we use insects and rodents. Just because you like to pretend that micro and macro evolution are two different things does not make it true however.

[CptEgo]

Religion is quite literally the bane of this planet.

When all is said and done, the vast VAST majority of wars from the dawn of time until now have for the most part started due to religion or religious conflicts. Wars started over made up BS. Its pretty crazy if you think about it.

Yes, religion is by far the worst thing that has happened to the human race ever. I can't believe people are still into this religion bullshit in 2017, it actually pisses me off how stupid some people are.

[Runenwächter]

I think it's pretty clear by now that the issue Runenwächter has, is not actually denying evolution but muslim immigration.
If denying evolution was his true issue, he would not be so focused on muslims, since there are more non-muslim evolution deniers than muslim evolution deniers, but he is very fixated on muslims.
Everyone can draw his or her own conclusion what the reason for his fixation might be.

How am I making it about muslims when it is you folks implying from minute one that I have some hidden agenda. You cant reasonably expect me not to mention a the religious group you accuse me to have some particular bias against. How am I supposed to address this in manner that can be understood by you or anybody?

I am probably the person who used the word muslim and islam the least in this whole thread.

[Thepersona]

Proving evolution on he level of microorganisms essentially does != proof to human evolution. You already undeniably admitted you can't prove it. Yet we teach it. Talk about unfalsifiable.

So you think that humans are different from the rest of the animals? Or the living beings, because? we share the same genetic makeup as any bacteria, and we can prove how evolution works in human populations (see: lactase persistence). We cant replicate because we dont have the enormous amount of time required, or a sufficently powerful supercomputer to simulate, on an accelerated time

[abandonedaccount]

Eh, I think I'm going to take a neutral standpoint here. Uh, I don't think that all religion is evil or regressive inherently, and that includes Islam, but I do think that Islam is in need of a reform - a lot of religions have reformed over the years, and I am certain the same can be done with Islam.

Also, denial of evolution is definitely horrific, however. If you deny evolution, you should NOT be allowed to be a teacher of any kind of history or biology.

[Sky High]

I fail to see how this is anymore of an issue then having kids be educated in religious private schools in america. really the evolution debate is not a hot button issue in the slightest. does it bother me people still don't think it's factual? yes. but does it really mean anything in the real world? I don't think so.

[petej0]

Proving evolution on he level of microorganisms essentially does != proof to human evolution. You already undeniably admitted you can't prove it. Yet we teach it. Talk about unfalsifiable.

If we have shown evolution in other species why would humans be exempt?

[Thepersona]

If we have shown evolution in other species why would humans be exempt?

Because we're special, we're created in the image of god (any god really). We cant be part of the other living things, it cheapens us.
See? This is the kind of selfish worldview that has to end

[rosebull]

I fail to see how this is anymore of an issue then having kids be educated in religious private schools in america. really the evolution debate is not a hot button issue in the slightest. does it bother me people still don't think it's factual? yes. but does it really mean anything in the real world? I don't think so.

I am firmly against religious private schools, but if parents want that education for the kid... well thats not my decision. But it makes me sad. I have a cousin who grew up in a religious family, he used to send me text messages of photos he would take from his school books.

These books and teachers told my cousin dinosaurs weren't real, and the bones were placed here by satan. I know many people may not believe this, but this is a firm teaching in most religious school. Its very backwards. Other things he showed me throughout the years was earth isnt very old, and life beyond earth is not a possibility.

Luckily my cousin is one of the smartest people i've met, and a registered genius who now teaches at Texas A&M and is in no way currently religious

[Runenwächter]

It is discrimination, either way you look at it. The only real issue, is whether it is legal discrimination, or not. You wish to justify it based on subjective beliefs, then you turn around and try to discount that you are discriminating in a broader sense, based on someone else's subjective beliefs. You specifically singled out Muslims, which is why you got so upset when people brought up Christians and other countries. So, you really cannot have it both ways. Take your pick, either way... you just argued against your principle argument. You either want to target Muslims (making it clear discrimination, even by your own definition), or you want to target everyone who doesn't believe (it's still discrimination), and don't want to focus on just Muslims. If the latter is true, then there was no need for you to get pissy with everyone who brought up Christians or people in other countries.

You just argued against yourself.

Dude I hope the next time you have a BBQ you feed your newborn steak. Better let him cut his meat too. Because doing otherwise would be.... discrimination. This interpretation of the word is utterly deprived of its original meaning, that once was supposed to have some bearing on the discussion and I thank you for wasting everybodies time in bringing the discussion to this point.

As for the legislation i proposed to protect the secular nature of education and prevent regressive religious attitutes from taking root you will see that I never proposed to single out a particular set of beliefs.

I propose neutral legislation, something thats so very self evident from each and every sentence that I've written and yet somehow is drawn into question by you is insulting. How on gods green earth do you twist this into an argument that this contradicts the position that it does not serve the discussion draw conclusions about the situation and what to do in Germany from non-German scenarios?

I swear you people make me sad.

[rosebull]

Dude I hope the next time you have a BBQ you feed your newborn steak. Better let him cut his meat too. Because doing otherwise would be.... discrimination. This interpretation of the word is utterly deprived of its original meaning, that once was supposed to have some bearing on the discussion and I thank you for wasting everybodies time in bringing the discussion to this point.

I swear you people make me sad.

1000% agreed

[Deleted]

Because we're special, we're created in the image of god (any god really). We cant be part of the other living things, it cheapens us.
See? This is the kind of selfish worldview that has to end

hahah, well your idea that humans are created in gods image is 100% wrong because of this:



Now at what stage of human evoution does your gods head fit in?

[Runenwächter]

I wish everyone a fruitfull and enjoyable conversation. I think I have had my fill of opinions on the matter and thank you for them. See you in the next TA thread or on a similar island of madness and shitposting.

[Calfredd]

hahah, well your idea that humans are created in gods image is 100% wrong because of this:

Now at what stage of human evolution does your gods head fit in?

He's agreeing with you. He's saying propping humans up as a special exemption from the rule is a selfish idea that needs to end.

[Machismo]

Dude I hope the next time you have a BBQ you feed your newborn steak. Better let him cut his meat too. Because doing otherwise would be.... discrimination. This interpretation of the word is utterly deprived of its original meaning, that once was supposed to have some bearing on the discussion and I thank you for wasting everybodies time in bringing the discussion to this point.

As for the legislation i proposed to protect the secular nature of education and prevent regressive religious attitutes from taking root you will see that I never proposed to single out a particular set of beliefs.

I propose neutral legislation, something thats so very self evident from each and every sentence that I've written and yet somehow is drawn into question by you is insulting. How on gods green earth do you twist this into an argument that this contradicts the position that it does not serve the discussion draw conclusions about the situation and what to do in Germany from non-German scenarios?

I swear you people make me sad.

You are not making any sense. Seriously, you have gone off the rails.

It's clear you wanted to bash Muslims, but your points got lost in the mix. The second you whined about comparisons towards other nations and other religions, you made it clear what it was all about.

We discriminate every single day, and that is a good thing. People should discriminate, a government should not. You proposed authoritarian intervention, thinking that would somehow make people come to their senses. You don't seem to understand humans too well, it takes a ton of oppression before they submit. Until you reach that point, you are only pissing them off.When you do, they are actually less likely to do what you want, and you only make things worse. Your attempts at indoctrination and brainwashing (that's all teaching really is) will fail miserably.

You do not propose neutral legislation, as you have already called for a litmus test to base who is impacted by that legislation. The idea that you should "just teach people harder" doesn't take into account how people actually think and act. I love the idea of teaching Evolution, because that is what the evidence points to. People still have the choice of whether they believe it, or not. You cannot force someone to not be willfully ignorant, no matter how hard you try. Seriously, there are studies that show the harder you try, the more you will fail.

The solution is simple. You educate people, and you do it in a manner which is not confrontational. The more you try to debate someone who doesn't have evidence to back up their beliefs, the more they will get angry, shut down, and ignore you. What you call for will actually lead to more ignorance, and even radicalization of those beliefs. It's not about not trying to offend people, it's about knowing how to get through to people. I don't give a flying fuck if someone is offended when I tell them something. Of course, when I insult someone, it's because I know they will not learn, and I'm speaking to everyone else. Take you for example. I have no desire to try and convince you, because I know you cannot be convinced. You have a narrative in your brain, and you won't let go. I'll merely point it out for others to see. Someone once told me the definition of a zealot, it's someone who is unable to change his mind, and is unwilling to change the subject. You proved that when you got butt hurt when people compared it to Christians or Americans.