Blizzard have effectively gotten rid of flying

[PraisCthulhu]

I see both sides. On the one hand, flying is without a doubt quicker and more efficient. I get why that is a thing people want.

On the other hand, ground mount enable you to see parts of the world you'd miss flying and lead to player interactions. If you're flying over head, you're not going to stop to res the 101 mage and help them down the elite they've got to kill for their quest. You're not going to stumble across the Tauren bodies hidden in a bush. You miss both the world and the other people in it. I get why people don't want to give those things up.

However, saying, "If you don't like flying, don't do it" isn't a legitimate answer either. If most other people are flying, you're not going to get those interactions even if you aren't flying. You're going to be slower than everyone else getting from node to node for herbs/mining, so not flying isn't an option. You'll always be the last person everywhere and your friends may get irritated always waiting for you to arrive. Once flying is in the game, you're losing something by not utilizing it and gain very little from not utilizing it.

[inverness]

My sub ran out the beginning of december. I like flying but it isn't a deal breaker for me, content is. I stayed subbed through WoD, but legion got really tedious in a fairly short time span. For those who love it, I say great. If there is a next expansion I will not be buying it early. I will be back at some point, but not at the beginning of an expansion, I will wait until all the content is complete. The interesting thing is I really thought I was going to have massive withdrawal leaving WOW but I didn't. I have played since 2004. quit for three weeks during WoD. My brother who has played longer than me has not resubbed, he will buy the next expansion.

[PassingBy]

With the whistle. Two hearthstones. And teleport to class hall along with group finder tool can't say that I miss flying that much.
If we didn't have all of those - ye it'd be hell.

But since we do - its no problem.

[SirCowdog]

I see both sides. On the one hand, flying is without a doubt quicker and more efficient. I get why that is a thing people want.

On the other hand, ground mount enable you to see parts of the world you'd miss flying and lead to player interactions. If you're flying over head, you're not going to stop to res the 101 mage and help them down the elite they've got to kill for their quest. You're not going to stumble across the Tauren bodies hidden in a bush. You miss both the world and the other people in it. I get why people don't want to give those things up.

Doesn't the game have enough group interaction in the form of Battlegrounds, Arena, Dungeons, and Raiding, as well as guilds? Does it REALLY need to be forced on random people in the open world by something like No-Flying? I'm not going to stop and rez some 101 mage who pulled too much and failed like a scrub anyway, grounded or not. And people aren't going to help him with his quest unless they get something out of it.

As for discovering random things in the world, that CAN be done from the air. If I'm flying somewhere and something on the ground catches my eye, I'm going to maybe fly down and take a look. If it turns out to be nothing, so be it. But if there's actually something interesting, I'll investigate further. If there's a quest or a resource node there'll be mark on the minimap. If it's not a quest, then how is it relevant to me? Lore? Go read a book or the wiki if that's what you're after. I'm not just showing up in some place in the game world by chance. I'm not out exploring trying to find hidden quests that no one knows about by clicking on tiny rocks or clues. I'm there because the game sent me there. That's how WoW works. If Blizzard wants to foster exploration and discovery, then they need to make the game work that way. Remove quest markers, make the world MUCH larger, put hints and tips in the terrain and on monsters, or in NPC conversations.

However, saying, "If you don't like flying, don't do it" isn't a legitimate answer either. If most other people are flying, you're not going to get those interactions even if you aren't flying. You're going to be slower than everyone else getting from node to node for herbs/mining, so not flying isn't an option. You'll always be the last person everywhere and your friends may get irritated always waiting for you to arrive. Once flying is in the game, you're losing something by not utilizing it and gain very little from not utilizing it.

Node farming is personal. You're not competing with anyone any more. That argument isn't valid. If you want to get to some place your friends are, then have them summon you. If you don't want to be the last one there, then leave earlier, or get better friends who actually care about exploring and ground travel as much as you do. But trying to tell the rest of the world that they should have to go slower so that you can keep up because YOU want to stop and smell the roses is ridiculous.

And what happens to all your points if flying is the same speed as ground mounts?

[CaptainV]

Blades Edge, Tempest keep.

It didnt work before, its not going to work this time. Designing zones solely around flying is a mistake they already admit at Blizzcon 2015.

Glad you are up to date.

I like how your using TBC as a refference.

Now try using an actual refference, ill give you one, Storm Peaks and Ice Crown, undeniably the best zones flying gave us.

[Effenz]

I like how your using TBC as a refference.

Now try using an actual refference, ill give you one, Storm Peaks and Ice Crown, undeniably the best zones flying gave us.

What? Both zones were cesspools

[Spl4sh3r]

Flightmasters allow you to skip content as well. Whether I took the flightpath from Goldshire to Stormwind or used a flying mount, I skipped having to deal with all the stuff on the ground between those towns.

Funny enough, were I on the flying mount and happened to spot copper ore on the way over, I could opt to detour and grab that, whereas that option doesn't exist while on the flightpath.

That isn't true, because to be able to use the flightpath to begin with you have to discover it. With flying you wouldn't be required to discover the flightpaths and therefore not even visit the place before you can just fly past it.

[Effenz]

Flightmasters allow you to skip content as well. Whether I took the flightpath from Goldshire to Stormwind or used a flying mount, I skipped having to deal with all the stuff on the ground between those towns.

Funny enough, were I on the flying mount and happened to spot copper ore on the way over, I could opt to detour and grab that, whereas that option doesn't exist while on the flightpath.

A flightpath is like taking a bus. Flying is like having your own private helicopter.

[Coffeexbean]

The expansions that had flying at the start would be better games if they had followed Legions flying model. The world becomes bigger when there is no flying and it actually feels populated. Things take time and traveling is a part of the game. Remember why you started playing wow its about the journey not the destination lol. TBC was okay because getting gold for a flying mount took a long time so hardly anyone had it except for the druids.. I guess they I'd be okay with them adding flying back in the game for a high ass gold grind but it would make the battle net tokens look bad lol.

[CaptainV]

What? Both zones were cesspools

I really dont get people that have this mind set.

What exactly was bad about Ulduar? About Icecrown? Nothing at all, both were amazing areas, with one that literally required flying to reach the raid.

What was wrong with Storm Peaks? Nothing, it was one of the most breathtaking and amazing places in WoW period, literlaly the most epic titanlore heavy area in the game.

Icecrown? The pinnacle of the Wrath experience, and the closing chapter of what was building up in all the previous zones.

Both required flying to fully access everything in them, and they added immersion, not took it away.

Calling it a cesspit? Thats cheap.

A cesspit? Is waiting for Flying in WoD, which had nearly nothing to offer in every zone as a result of no flying not to mention had some of the most abysmally boring landscapes with the exception of Shadowmoon and Frostfire.

[Dhrizzle]

I really dont get people that have this mind set.

What exactly was bad about Ulduar? About Icecrown? Nothing at all, both were amazing areas, with one that literally required flying to reach the raid.

What was wrong with Storm Peaks? Nothing, it was one of the most breathtaking and amazing places in WoW period, literlaly the most epic titanlore heavy area in the game.

Icecrown? The pinnacle of the Wrath experience, and the closing chapter of what was building up in all the previous zones.

Both required flying to fully access everything in them, and they added immersion, not took it away.

Calling it a cesspit? Thats cheap.

A cesspit? Is waiting for Flying in WoD, which had nearly nothing to offer in every zone as a result of no flying not to mention had some of the most abysmally boring landscapes with the exception of Shadowmoon and Frostfire.

Icecrown was terrible because it took what had been built up as a massive threat to Azeroth (the Lich King and his forces) and allowed us to hover above them in complete safety wondering what all the fuss was about and why we weren't given bombs to finish them there and then.

[Fabinas]

The expansions that had flying at the start would be better games if they had followed Legions flying model. The world becomes bigger when there is no flying and it actually feels populated. Things take time and traveling is a part of the game. Remember why you started playing wow its about the journey not the destination lol. TBC was okay because getting gold for a flying mount took a long time so hardly anyone had it except for the druids.. I guess they I'd be okay with them adding flying back in the game for a high ass gold grind but it would make the battle net tokens look bad lol.

"BECOMES BIGGER". AN ILLUSION? WHAT ARE YOU HIDING? Less dev costs. Meaning time, artists, quest/world designers, salaries, stuff like that. And giving us a world not worth to traverse and explore for more than 2-3 months. They should strive for high quality content that includes flying and lures people to MAKE the world populated. Not pack us like sardines in the Broken Isles can so we can feel we are a lot around.

But i guess no more budget for that, so now we have to endure those ground tethers...

[xanzul]

Can any anti fliers give a good reason as to why blizzard continues to sell flying mounts in store for $30 however restrict flying in current content?

Seems like the height of abusing their playerbase financially.

This is also excluding the time cost people have invested farming mounts in some cases for years

Are you people seriously still trotting out these trollish talking points as actual discussion? Blizzard continues to sell flying mounts because flying wasn't removed from the game. Fucking stop it already.

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Some people still seem to be challenged and "exploring" the zones... after running through them 200 times...

People have become so spoiled by flying that they are incapable of figuring out they can hit the spacebar to jump over a twig. I don't know what is more pathetic, the fact that something as trivial is this is considered gamebreaking or the fact that people freely admit to being this incompotent in game play.

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So because i enjoy the game more with flying I am whiner? Not sure i like your alternative facts. It is my opinion and from the feedback blizzard got I am not the only one.

I know i hardly play now...besides logging for raids....and when flying comes back I can see me logging more. Its as simple as that. Your welcome to put your hands over your ears and yell "I AM NOT LISTENING" as much as you want it does not change mine or other opinion on flying.

I myself know i am not a special snowflake...and if i feel this way others do too.

No-flying wasn't an issue at the start of Legion...travelling, exploring it was fun. We are far past that stage now. Flying should of been added when kara was released. The only areas in legion that should be no-fly zones are world pvp wq areas.

What you people don't seem to understand is that the issues with flying isn't restricted to exploring areas for the first time but with how players interact with each other and with the game world. Whether you have quested in a zone 5 times or 500 times flying reduces much of that interaction which is why people have been complaining about flying being in game. I don't have an issue with those who disagree with this complaint but please stop pretending like this isn't a valid reason to take issue with flying.

[Yunaqt]

What exactly was bad about Ulduar? About Icecrown? Nothing at all, both were amazing areas, with one that literally required flying to reach the raid.

What was wrong with Storm Peaks? Nothing, it was one of the most breathtaking and amazing places in WoW period, literlaly the most epic titanlore heavy area in the game.

Icecrown? The pinnacle of the Wrath experience, and the closing chapter of what was building up in all the previous zones.

Both required flying to fully access everything in them, and they added immersion, not took it away.

Only thing I can remember about these zones is flying through them to get to the raids, Icecrown as a zone was the worst for leveling and just boring other than the LotR reference quest with the eye which I found amusing, both these zones had great raids but that's all they brought to the table so I definitely wouldn't rate them high, especially not in WotLK.

You know what was a zone that [almost] everyone loved? Grizzly Hills, now that was a dope zone. I still remember riding my ground mount through that place loving questing there which was followed by dinging 77 buying my Northrend Flying and deleting the rest of the content.

I love flying getting it later in an expansion as by then it just makes leveling alts easier and just s small quality of life change for my main, also makes you appreciate it a bit more - Atleast for me anyway.

While flying was around early in BC it didn't feel that way because it was rare I bothered using the neat 60% movement speed mount, only used to to reach an area after using my ground mount for, farming the gold to buy your epic flying was actually practically gating as well since it wasn't just pocket change nor was it meant to - Still remember farming Fel Armaments and Marks of Sarg saving for that thing :P

[xanzul]

Seems like flightpaths do a better job of removing people from the game world than flying mounts, then, with all the opportunities to go afk. Don't see those being removed, though, nope.

Players can't afk in the skybox for hours at a time by using a flight path nor can they trivialize content with them. Seriously this isn't even a discussion anymore it just flat out trolling.

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Flightmasters allow you to skip content as well. Whether I took the flightpath from Goldshire to Stormwind or used a flying mount, I skipped having to deal with all the stuff on the ground between those towns.

Funny enough, were I on the flying mount and happened to spot copper ore on the way over, I could opt to detour and grab that, whereas that option doesn't exist while on the flightpath.

Flight paths are what get you to the content. And no, unrestricted flying wasn't being used to get from one bit of content to another it was being used to skip parts of content the player was currently doing, not to get to some other content.

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Here's a pro-tip for you: Don't put the flying mount on your hotbar. Congrats! Flying doesn't exist for you even after 7.2.

Once again the primary issue players have with flight involves interaction with other players or with the game world. Choosing not to fly doesn't negate the fact that others flying is resulting in less of those interactions occurring. It isn't just about the individual player but I'm not surprised to see a flybaby can't see past their own selfish needs and wants.

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hmm. strange. i am one of these vanilla/TBC lovers. but i hate no-flying these days. in a dangerous world, where unmounting matters by being killed by just 1-2 elite mobs, no-flying is a great thing. but these days ?

i dont get what the thing is, what is so great with no-flying. you will be just unmounted, kill maybe 10+ mobs a braindead ape could kill, and mount up again. its just anoying. i have no clue what it is that it is that great with no-flying. and i am pro-immersion, pro-vanilla and so on. but i see no immersion with no-fyling, nor any features that feel that great.

a while ago (before WoD) i thought exactly the same about no-fyling. i thought that would be great again, immersion and all that stuff. but when it happened i just find it annoying. and this didnt changed till today. no clue whats great with no-flying.

i dont get it.

Player interaction with others and with the game world has fuck all to do with immersion. Those interactions are a key part of game design and developing content.

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being grounded until you complete some simple tasks at level cap has always been fine, being grounded while doing tedious tasks is not. WoD was a heck of a lot more enjoyable (even if it still sucked) once flying came back, and with M+ requiring you to head to the entrances I'd enjoy being able to beeline there instead of flight path and AFK. Nothing more annoying than seeing materials on the minimap and being stuck on a FP.

they've opened Pandora's box, closing it again does nothing now but frustrate those who enjoy the aspect and freedom it brings.

You mean tedious tasks like playing the game? I really don't get this argument. Flight or no flight if content is tedious to do the problem isn't with flight. Blizzard has made their stance on flight crystal clear and we know how they are going to handle it going forward. Wouldn't it be a better use of time to try to get Blizzard to change how that content is designed?

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With the whistle. Two hearthstones. And teleport to class hall along with group finder tool can't say that I miss flying that much.
If we didn't have all of those - ye it'd be hell.

But since we do - its no problem.

Much of that was implemented due to player feedback on doing content without flight not that the flybabies would ever acknowledge that. It destroys their whole narrative of Blizzard trying to slow us down so they can produce "less is more" content.

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"BECOMES BIGGER". AN ILLUSION? WHAT ARE YOU HIDING? Less dev costs. Meaning time, artists, quest/world designers, salaries, stuff like that. And giving us a world not worth to traverse and explore for more than 2-3 months. They should strive for high quality content that includes flying and lures people to MAKE the world populated. Not pack us like sardines in the Broken Isles can so we can feel we are a lot around.

But i guess no more budget for that, so now we have to endure those ground tethers...

You do realize we are able to see every single bit of terrain in Legion and Draenor right? Restricting flight has nothing to do with content development costs. If anything designing a zone with flight in mind would be less work. If players are to be grounded then they need to pay more attention to how terrain is designed and ways to vary how it looks and plays.

[PassingBy]

Much of that was implemented due to player feedback on doing content without flight not that the flybabies would ever acknowledge that. It destroys their whole narrative of Blizzard trying to slow us down so they can produce "less is more" content.

Regarding travel I have always loved the travel system that they've had in Ultima Online.
You basically had 2 spells "Mark" and "Recall" (if I remember correctly). Kal Por Ylem and Kal Ort Por (again if I remember correctly).

And a special thing called a "rune". You would cast mark on the "rune" and it'll mark the rune with a set amount of charges to that place.
Then if you cast recall on that "rune" you would be teleported to its location.

Other than that you had to travel on foot or on a non flying mount.
It was the best travel system I have ever encountered in an MMO)

[Effenz]

I really dont get people that have this mind set.

What exactly was bad about Ulduar? About Icecrown? Nothing at all, both were amazing areas, with one that literally required flying to reach the raid.

What was wrong with Storm Peaks? Nothing, it was one of the most breathtaking and amazing places in WoW period, literlaly the most epic titanlore heavy area in the game.

Icecrown? The pinnacle of the Wrath experience, and the closing chapter of what was building up in all the previous zones.

Both required flying to fully access everything in them, and they added immersion, not took it away.

Calling it a cesspit? Thats cheap.

A cesspit? Is waiting for Flying in WoD, which had nearly nothing to offer in every zone as a result of no flying not to mention had some of the most abysmally boring landscapes with the exception of Shadowmoon and Frostfire.

I like how in your second line you confuse ulduar the raid with storm peaks the zone.
And fwiw, icecrown quests were awful. The little area with mal'ganis was pretty cool but that's it. As everyone said, hovering in an airship for your quest hub was insanely boring. Storm peaks was done literally only bc you needed sons of hodir rep for shoulder enchants. Past that it could be just as bad, if not worse than zul'drak.

[Niwes]

Players can't afk in the skybox for hours at a time by using a flight path nor can they trivialize content with them. Seriously this isn't even a discussion anymore it just flat out trolling.

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Flight paths are what get you to the content. And no, unrestricted flying wasn't being used to get from one bit of content to another it was being used to skip parts of content the player was currently doing, not to get to some other content.

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Once again the primary issue players have with flight involves interaction with other players or with the game world. Choosing not to fly doesn't negate the fact that others flying is resulting in less of those interactions occurring. It isn't just about the individual player but I'm not surprised to see a flybaby can't see past their own selfish needs and wants.

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Player interaction with others and with the game world has fuck all to do with immersion. Those interactions are a key part of game design and developing content.

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You mean tedious tasks like playing the game? I really don't get this argument. Flight or no flight if content is tedious to do the problem isn't with flight. Blizzard has made their stance on flight crystal clear and we know how they are going to handle it going forward. Wouldn't it be a better use of time to try to get Blizzard to change how that content is designed?

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Much of that was implemented due to player feedback on doing content without flight not that the flybabies would ever acknowledge that. It destroys their whole narrative of Blizzard trying to slow us down so they can produce "less is more" content.

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You do realize we are able to see every single bit of terrain in Legion and Draenor right? Restricting flight has nothing to do with content development costs. If anything designing a zone with flight in mind would be less work. If players are to be grounded then they need to pay more attention to how terrain is designed and ways to vary how it looks and plays.

what exactly IS this "player interaction" when it comes down to no-flying? plz explain.

[Swiftshadow]

Sigh.

When I walk from my home to the park. It takes 15 mins. Along the way, I get to experience nature, pass by fellow walkers, or even enjoy the breeze.

When I drive from my home to the park. It takes 5 mins. I experience none of the above.

Doesn't it sound like a better option to walk? Maybe.

Or like Tony Stark in Ironman said : "Is it too much to ask for both?"

Why can't we have both the option to fly, and the option to walk?

[WowIsDead64]

Sigh.

When I walk from my home to the park. It takes 15 mins. Along the way, I get to experience nature, pass by fellow walkers, or even enjoy the breeze.

When I drive from my home to the park. It takes 5 mins. I experience none of the above.

Doesn't it sound like a better option to walk? Maybe.

Or like Tony Stark in Ironman said : "Is it too much to ask for both?"

Why can't we have both the option to fly, and the option to walk?

It's ok, if you do it for the first time. But how about doing it every day? What if you need to go to your work and this extra time waste consumes your free time, you need to do something else, like taking some rest/shower/housework? What if this time waste burns your life? What if there are more important things in your life, than simply getting from point A to point B? I'll give you another example. Yeah, walking can be considered more "immersive", but without car my travel radius is limited by 1-2km from nearest transport. For example, when I live in my country house, I may decide to go to nearest city, that is 30km away, to buy some goods, instead of being limited by local shops, that sell important stuff only. I could do it via bus, but it goes there 2 times a day only, so I will get stuck there for several hours. Or I may decide to go to church, that is 4km away. Or may be to river, that is 2km away. Or I may just go exploring, instead of just sitting at home and watching TV. Car allows me to go, where I want and when I want. Same with flying, but in larger scale. Personal chopper or plane doesn't allow you too see every tree or blade of grass, but it allows you to do some better things - to visit places, that are hundreds of kilometers away or even different countries. What's the point in seeing same tree every day, if you can see Paris or New York? So, "exploration" and "immersion" - are very relative and subjective things. Yeah, ground mount isn't so limiting, as walking, but still - flying allows me to do, what I want to do, every day. Without flying I wouldn't be able to do it, cuz current ground design is way too ineffective and bottlenecked. Outdoor content would be too tedious for me and therefore I wouldn't be able to sustain it for long enough time - I would burn out and quit very soon. And as I've already seen both MOP and WOD disasters - I don't want to repeat this crap again for Legion.