Metal music still has unaddressed Nazi Problem

[Mormolyce]

It was 72 years ago you lunatic. Germans paid for doing it (death camps) somehow, so no one should be considered 'nazi' in 2017.

Except, you know, the Nazis.

So they are advocating punching old aged German pensioners then? Is that somehow better, or are you mixing up Nazi wannabes with actual Nazis?

If you (general, not you you) think that punching Nazis is okay, then that is advocating political violence, which makes you an extremist and as you would be condoning punching extremists, you have no moral defence if people decide to punch you.

I take the position of not advocating punching anyone for their political views, even if I personally don't find them distasteful, but then again I am not an extremist.

I wouldn't call punching Nazis an extreme political position at all.

[Deleted]

Putting aside that a photo caption isn't technically part of the article, you clearly didn't read the whole article.

It's still her words.

Nowhere did she say Halestorm was the only female fronted metal band, let alone there are no all female bands. What she is saying, quite accurately, is that women in metal still aren't getting much limelight and respect.

She made the ridiculous claim that no-one who knows Metal would be likely to come up with anything more than Halestorm.

How many metal acts with at least one woman can you name? Because I can start with The Runaways and go from there.

The Runaways are not a Metal band.

But otherwise, since you've challenged me:

Nightwish, Epica, Alunah, SubRosa, Arch Enemy, Myrkur, Eluveitie, After Forever, The Agonist, Ancient Bards, Tristania, Ayreon (uses women all over the place), Devin Townsend (Eliza), Munarheim, Xandria, Deadlock, Delain, Destiny Potato, Draconian, Unexpect, Lethian Dreams, Theater of Tragedy, Unsun, To-Mera, Ebony Ark, Fairyland (early), Agoraphobic Nosebleed, Dark Moor, Diablo Swing Orchestra, Dawn of Destiny, Arwen, Chiasma, Triosphere, Wildpath, Within Temptation, Unleash the Archers, Leaves Eyes, Triptykon, Sirenia, Warlock.

Those are just bands I'm aware of, or somewhat aware of - and just including bands where the woman is a singer. There's likely many more I don't know about because I don't often care about band makeup.

Edit: The Runaways aren't even close to being a Metal band. What on earth made you mention them?

[Kalis]

I wouldn't call punching Nazis an extreme political position at all.

You wouldn't call using violence to silence political opposition extreme? It is certainly not a moderate position.

p.s. There are very few actual Nazis alive today, they would all be into their 80s at least, so you are saying you think it is okay to punch old age pensioners.

[Alexeht]

Except, you know, the Nazis.

I wouldn't call punching Nazis an extreme political position at all.

- snip img -

This Capitan America img ... yeah because there is no difference in having war with literal Hitler and some racists. Why no one calls Black Panthers 'nazi'? Aren't they black supremacists?

Some people don't get how punching 'nazis' (or anyone) makes them 'nazis' at the same time while they decide it is ok to attack someone just because this person have opinion. As I said II WW ended about 72 years ago, no one have war with germans atm, and calling anyone 'nazi' in 2017 just show that person using that word is uneducated hypocrite ('neo-nazi' may be used, but still there is not much point in it).

IMO I would see much more sense in punching feminazis than nazis lol.

[derpkitteh]

it's not a problem. people should be free to express their stupid ideas in any avenue they want.

[Kalis]

This Capitan America img ... yeah because there is no difference in having war with literal Hitler and some racists. Why no one calls Black Panthers 'nazi'? Aren't they black supremacists?

Some people don't get how punching 'nazis' (or anyone) makes them 'nazis' at the same time while they decide it is ok to attack someone just because this person have opinion. As I said II WW ended about 72 years ago, no one have war with germans atm, and calling anyone 'nazi' in 2017 just show that person using that word is uneducated hypocrite ('neo-nazi' may be used, but still there is not much point in it).

IMO I would see much more sense in punching feminazis than nazis lol.

You are talking to someone who thinks that using violence to silence political opposition is not extremist, so don't hold out hope they will realise WWII is over.

[Ravenblade]

Metal music is not describing a group with an agenda. It's like saying techno music has a problem with drugs, first person shooters have a problem with violence, German cuisine has a problem with pork meat, my fence has a problem with rust. Even if you would describe the people behind you would have to ask yourself whether you see these people as a self-governing community with some code which is not the case. A share of interest does not equal common code or understanding. If you are trying to educate people you'd have to make everyone submit to you first then but who are you, stranger, to dictate what is correct or not?

That said I do agree that some types of music carry violent and radical ideas more effectively. In Germany neonazis are experiencing a renaissance, especially in East Germany where we have more active neonazis than in the entire US combined, and that's due to a lot neonazi musicians, metal and rock bands and some aggro rappers (ironically) who act as "artistic demagogues". So by some logic hiphop, rap, metal, rock and folklore music are having a Nazi problem. Even though I count these musicians as firebrands and they are usually banned from giving public concerts (officially, they are still finding ways): it is difficult to attribute entire genres to communities. There are at least as much punk rock bands. Sometimes they are even mistaken for neonazis. Who doesn't remember Sodom and their vivid use of WWII imagery and vocabulary despite being a self-avowed antifascist thrash metal band with punk influence?

Note: I am not particularly a metal fan either but I think it's wrong to say phenomenon XYZ has a problem. People have problems, it's better to address the people behind it and their motives rather than an entire genre.

[Kuax]

Using nazi imagery is metal as fuck. Been a nazi, however, isn't that much. I've been to a bunch of concerts, only seen nazis once. Weirdly, they looked kinda nerdish (big glasses, neat shirts, etc). I was puzzled that they were doing nazi salutes to a band (Трупный Яд), while lyrics of which is highly political, they're about non-conformism, anti-government and black humour, but not any certain ideology.
Much higher on metal problem's list would be all those uninspired "teenager" bands (yes, I'm elitist). And in the end it's not that much of a problem too.

[starlord]

i guess metal has a nazi problem inasmuch as punk music has an anarchist problem.

[belfpala]

albums are about the wars, and the death and destruction, and satan / the devil. You also have the band members wearing an iron cross around their necks, but Bm is meant to be "ugly" and "evil" - so as I have listened to quite alot of it since 94, I can safely say, its a minimum of BM bands or metal bands in general who are nazis etc.

More or less this. I could literally just read the bible and it would come off as malevolent if I palm muted some drop-D chords and gave it a backbeat at 140bpm.

It's supposed to be uncomfortable music. It's also not supposed to tell anyone what to do or how to think.

[Mormolyce]

Why no one calls Black Panthers 'nazi'? Aren't they black supremacists?

Probably because they aren't.

[Deleted]

Good thing black metal circles, me included, dont give a rats ass what anyone thinks, especially not a bunch of forum SJWs and a idiot article writer.
Also, punching nazis should make us ok with punching commies, since its the both sides of the same coin. Now, what a havoc would it be if random people started hitting all those autistic kids with hammer & sickle flags?

And dont expect the people that are into NSBM to pillage your streets- thats something solely reserved for wannabe-fashy thugs(that NSBM folks dont even like) and your favourite freedom fighters- ANTIFAs.

[Alexeht]

Probably because they aren't.

I just have to point out your hypocrisy - you are basically saying "black power" = not racist, "white power" = racist nazi scums.



"Kill some crackers" - so should we punch black panther members?

Also, punching nazis should make us ok with punching commies, since its the both sides of the same coin. Now, what a havoc would it be if random people started hitting all those autistic kids with hammer & sickle flags?

Attacking anyone based just on theirs believes have no sense at all. It is like I would punch every muslim I see on street just because they (most of them) believe sex with underage girls is fine, they have many extremists/terrorists among them etc.

[belfpala]

Metal gets blamed for a lot of things, for decades. This is no different, and metal will continue on, as it should.

It goes way way back. J.S. Bach popularized the equal temper scales. Fucking fascist, imposing his will on notes. He spoke German, even.

...sarcasm tag and stuff.

[Deleted]

Attacking anyone based just on theirs believes have no sense at all. It is like I would punch every muslim I see on street just because they (most of them) believe sex with underage girls is fine, they have many extremists/terrorists among them etc.

Welcome to the world of common sense- take a seat and watch as lefties burn the streets.

[belfpala]

Music can only be judged by musical values. Take cultures and references away from music.

Can you do that?

I mean, we (assuming you're from the Americas or Europe) can't even properly hear quarter-tones because our culture listens to music in semi-tones.

Can I be against Richard Wagner's politics but enjoy his compositions? Yes. I can. Not everyone can. Did John Lennon have an ideology in mind when he wrote Imagine? Damn right he did.

[Mormolyce]

You wouldn't call using violence to silence political opposition extreme? It is certainly not a moderate position.

p.s. There are very few actual Nazis alive today, they would all be into their 80s at least, so you are saying you think it is okay to punch old age pensioners.

Good thing Nazis aren't the political opposition then, isn't it? And as long as they remain a dead ideology with no real political influence, violence will not be necessary.

[Not A Cat]

I just have to point out your hypocrisy - you are basically saying "black power" = not racist, "white power" = racist nazi scums.

"Kill some crackers" - so should we punch black panthers members?

I think their point was that Black Panthers' original formation was centered around equality and not "black power." The video shows extremists twisting the ideologies of the Black Panthers into their own narrative. This video wouldn't make it okay to go call Black Panther members nazis, just like it isn't okay to call anyone who considers themselves right wing a nazi. Same situation with calling anyone left wing an SJW, it's a broad generalization brought out by extremists.

The problem is with the media focusing on extremism. Doing so is making people into extremists. Like in this article, they're trying to paint an entire genre of music in an extremist light in an effort to silence something they don't like. As has been pointed out in this thread, it's ironic. Some people claiming to be anti-fascist have pretty fascist ideas themselves.

[Karon]

Well, im in America, so what i think, believe, and feel is no ones GOD DAMN BUSINESS!

God damn people running around thinking they need to address other peoples ways of thinking. Thought police at its finest!

As long as you can have guns, it's EVERYONES business what you think and feel.


The premise that metal = nazi is ridiculous and it's the first time I've heard about this. Here in germany most people think more like metal = cacophonic noise =P

[Deleted]

Welp I guess goregrind has a cannibalism- and murder-rape problem.