It's On Us "Autocorrect" PSA translates casual conversation to reveal rape culture

[LMuhlen]

Funny how when someone is losing an arguement, their response is usually "Well, you're the cause for *insert bullshit sjw theory here*.

Funny how when someone is losing an argument, their response is usually "Funny how when someone is losing an arguement, their response is usually *insert whatever here*"

Now no one wins.

[Raelbo]

"Rape culture is a sociological concept used to describe a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality."

Firstly, this is not some universal definition - it's just a wikipedia reference. "Rape culture" is a made up label, used by many different people, to encompass an issue that negatively affects many in society.

Here is another definition for you: "In a rape culture, women perceive a continuum of threatened violence that ranges from sexual remarks to sexual touching to rape itself"

I would argue that your approach of trying to choose a set definition for the phrase in order to exclude certain acts that clearly should be unacceptable is pointless. A far better approach is to accept a broader definition of "rape culture" that encompasses the sum of reasonably accepted definitions given it by victims of the actions encompassed within it. It's completely unhelpful to harp on the label if the problem clearly exists.

We have no societal attitudes in the west which makes it pervasive nor normalized. We have some small percentage of scumbags who do things but they do not define what is a societal attitude. It's not widely accepted. We probably have more nazis in Sweden than we have that kind of people, do you see people saying we have a nazi culture based on the few of them that exists? No. It's not accepted by society, they're shunned. Just as rape and other types of sexual assault is.

You're talking past what I have said. Rape culture is about more than just violent gang rape, or abusive men beating up women and physically forcing them to have sex. Just because you refuse to call other lesser acts of non-consensual sex "rape" doesn't make them ok. If a woman tells you she has a problem with rape culture because men in her office keep making suggestive remarks, slapping her ass, and trying to grope her in the elevator, it would be most unhelpful to tell her "well that doesn't classify as rape culture, so there's no problem". It's far more constructive to try and understand what the victims mean when they use the phrase "rape culture" than to try and tell them what it should mean....

[Deleted]

You're talking past what I have said. Rape culture is about more than just violent gang rape, or abusive men beating up women and physically forcing them to have sex.

"Rape culture is a sociological concept used to describe a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality."

Just because you refuse to call other lesser acts of non-consensual sex "rape" doesn't make them ok.

I have done no such thing.

If a woman tells you she has a problem with rape culture because men in her office keep making suggestive remarks, slapping her ass, and trying to grope her in the elevator, it would be most unhelpful to tell her "well that doesn't classify as rape culture, so there's no problem". It's far more constructive to try and understand what the victims mean when they use the phrase "rape culture" than to try and tell them what it should mean....

That's sexual harassment, not rape. I'd tell her to go to her boss about it and get them fired and take them to court for it.

[Mehrunes]

You realize there's people in this very thread complaining that the definition of "rape" is "too broad" because they feel that certain types of what we define as rape are "normal" and shouldn't be so labelled, right?

Rape culture isn't expressed by saying "rape is awesome!" It's expressed by arguing that it wasn't "rape" to begin with.

What people? The only mention of the word "broad" in the entire thread that pop up in search is this post of yours I'm replying to right now and posts quoting it. I suppose you could have been paraphrasing, so I quickly went over the thread. The only post I found questioning the definition of rape that could be phrased as too broad was post #36 by @Archmage BloodElf4Life which questioned the definition of rape used by particular user, not the legal definition of rape. Given how the questioning was about if their (@talwynn's) definition of rape included regret - and from context of all posts by Archmage BloodElf4Life I'd wager they meant regretting sex after sex already took place - which is not part of the legal definition, they "complained" about someone potentially stretching the definition of rape, not the actual legal definition being too broad.

[Deleted]

I agree with your entire post but I only quote this part to ask a question about this specific situation.
She says she wants sex before getting drunk, but nothing stops her from changing her mind during the evening before actually having sex. Is it rape then? If she said no before sex and making it clear that she changed her mind then yes it's obviously raped, but if she got so drunk she can't really say no or resist but she already gave consent and can't clearly communicate her change of mind because she's so drunk, is it rape then?

By law it is not since she gave consent.

By law it is rape here in Sweden at least. People would think you're a rapist scumbag if you had sex with someone in those circumstances even if you're not convicted due to lack of proof.

[Deleted]

Again, IMO, you are just making their case easier. If the laws say it is not rape something they do consider rape, it is clearly a rape culture for them.

Nope.

The legal term requires proof of intent... and drunken sex does not prove rape. Drunken sex is drunken sex.

It never has been considered rape.

Your laws say it's ok to rape because they say that it is not really rape. Exactly what they are saying a rape culture is.

This is only true if you believe that drunken sex is rape...

[Swalload]

You're talking past what I have said. Rape culture is about more than just violent gang rape, or abusive men beating up women and physically forcing them to have sex. Just because you refuse to call other lesser acts of non-consensual sex "rape" doesn't make them ok. If a woman tells you she has a problem with rape culture because men in her office keep making suggestive remarks, slapping her ass, and trying to grope her in the elevator, it would be most unhelpful to tell her "well that doesn't classify as rape culture, so there's no problem". It's far more constructive to try and understand what the victims mean when they use the phrase "rape culture" than to try and tell them what it should mean....

Rape is one thing, inappropriate physical contact is another, sexual harassment is another, suggestive remark is another, being overly flirty is another, smiling when passing someone is another.

The right term needs to be used, there are many words to describe many DIFFERENT things in languages, people need to learn learn learn LEARN.
Learn to use the right term, learn what each of them mean. Learn not to use the wrong one, learn not to generalize, learn not to put everything in the same box.

[Raelbo]

So basically youa re saying it's rape culture is "wanting to have sex with someone without knowing if they want to have sex with you". That's just baffling.

If you want to rephrase something I wrote, into something completely and fundamentally different, then I cannot accept responsibility for your bafflement...

It's fine to want to have sex with someone. But you need to establish that they want to have sex with you before you start actually having sex with them.

You can't know ahead of the time wheter they want to have sex or not. You might be able to guess, but there's no hurt in asking.

True. Not sure why you think I disagree...

Unless you actually commit rape, you are not a rapist nor you are pushing for rape ffs.

Well...you're not wrong. But then again you're not actually saying anything here, are you?

There's nothing wrong with trying to persuade people into having sex either. You can always say no to that.

Where did I ever say you shouldn't try to persuade people into having sex? There is absolutely nothing with persuasion. The problem with rape culture is that people are unwilling to accept "no" for an answer when persuasion fails, so they resort to other tactics to procure "consent".

[Deleted]

Rape is one thing, inappropriate physical contact is another, sexual harassment is another, suggestive remark is another, being overly flirty is another, smiling when passing someone is another.

And regressive SJWs have pretty much changed the meaning of rape to cover all of the above.

The right term needs to be used, there are many words to describe many DIFFERENT things in languages, people need to learn learn learn LEARN.
Learn to use the right term, learn what each of them mean. Learn not to use the wrong one, learn not to generalize, learn not to put everything in the same box.

And i totally agree... but sadly this regressive movement is trying hard to push a narrative that suits their own ideology.

They have been on a hardcore campaign to redefine language to suit their narrative for a long time... sadly this is only one of their assaults on language.

[Deleted]

It's fine to want to have sex with someone. But you need to establish that they want to have sex with you before you start actually having sex with them.

Kind of do that if they play along instead of saying no.

[Raelbo]

"Rape culture is a sociological concept used to describe a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality."

For the third time, your definition is not correct. So bugger off, do a bit of reading, get other opinions on what "rape culture" means and then come back to the conversation when you have the basic foundation knowledge. Thank you.

That's sexual harassment, not rape. I'd tell her to go to her boss about it and get them fired and take them to court for it.

You're quite correct. You're also completely missing the point....

[Narwal]

It's exactly why your counterargument is wrong.

If we passed a law saying that assaults that occurred on Wednesdays and Saturdays could not be considered "rape", then a girl getting dragged into the bushes by a masked stranger and taken against her will, on a Wednesday, wasn't raped. Even if the same act, on a Tuesday, would have been called rape.

Rape culture, as a concept, isn't about thinking rape is "okay". It's about dismissing claims and saying "that's not rape". Any argument based on their clothing inviting the assault counts as such. Blaming her for getting so drunk she could be taken advantage of fits the bill. Defending date rape where she doesn't fight back hard enough for you to be "convinced" she wasn't consenting. Etc. It's about looking at a situation that others call "rape", and saying "no, that's normal".

So basically it all comes back to the little diagram that someone drew a few posts above yours that is "what constitutes rape".

Real:
l---RAPE-----------------------------------------------------------------------------NOTARIZED SIGNED CONSENT---l

Believers in Rape Culture:
l-----------------------------------------------------------------------------RAPE---NOTARIZED SIGNED CONSENT---l

Based on this logic, anyone could say we live in any type of culture they want, by redefining the crime to be more inclusive of innocuous conditions that sometimes may, but in most circumstances won't, be a characteristic of the crime. You know, the condition where we assume everyone guilty until proven innocent.

[Deleted]

For the third time, your definition is not correct. So bugger off, do a bit of reading, get other opinions on what "rape culture" means and then come back to the conversation when you have the basic foundation knowledge. Thank you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

You're quite correct. You're also completely missing the point....

What point? Is your point so obscure that only you can understand it?

[Zandalarian Paladin]

What people? The only mention of the word "broad" in the entire thread that pop up in search is this post of yours I'm replying to right now and posts quoting it. I suppose you could have been paraphrasing, so I quickly went over the thread. The only post I found questioning the definition of rape that could be phrased as too broad was post #36 by @Archmage BloodElf4Life which questioned the definition of rape used by particular user, not the legal definition of rape. Given how the questioning was about if their (@talwynn's) definition of rape included regret - and from context of all posts by Archmage BloodElf4Life I'd wager they meant regretting sex after sex already took place - which is not part of the legal definition, they "complained" about someone potentially stretching the definition of rape, not the actual legal definition being too broad.

I'm glad to see that some people can still read correctly. Rape, as per defined legally, is correct. It is the interpretation of the people that is not, and the consequences that fall upon those falsely accused of something they are not guilty of.

[Raqubor]

Doesn't happen frequently enough? About 20% of female undergraduates are sexually assaulted. 47% of college student sexual assaults involve alcohol. In 2013, more than 14,700 students between the ages of 18-24 were victims of alcohol related sexual assault. You're right though, doesn't happen enough. How many women have to be raped for it to be considered a "stigma". 50%? 75%?

Where did you get these bullshit percentages?
Sexual assault does not mean rape. They label ass grabbing as sexual assault.
You want to tell drunken hormone raged teenagers to not do that?

Good luck.

[Mehrunes]

Intoxication, in many places, is firm grounds for establishing a lack of consent. Just by way of example; https://www.justia.com/criminal/docs...1000/1002.html

You trying to redefine those facts and pretend that this kind of rape is "okay" is exactly what "rape culture" looks like.

Just to point out and clarify, it's severe intoxication. Also, how weird that progressive California reserves rape for female victims only. At least in the jury instructions that you linked. Because the Section 261 of California's Penal Code that defines rape uses gender neutral term of a "person". Which, unless there's some addendum to the CPC that clarifies a man is not a person for the purposes of criminal/rape law, the law juries are instructed is not actual law. Which is even weirder.

[Deleted]

You want to tell drunken hormone raged teenagers to not do that?

Good luck.

Most can actually refrain from grabbing others when unwanted.

[Raelbo]

The right term needs to be used, there are many words to describe many DIFFERENT things in languages, people need to learn learn learn LEARN. Learn to use the right term, learn what each of them mean. Learn not to use the wrong one, learn not to generalize, learn not to put everything in the same box.

"Rape Culture" is a term invented by the feminist movement to define a set of problems emanating from a societal attitude. That makes their definition correct. People need to learn, learn, learn, LEARN, to LISTEN to what they have to say instead of fixating on the term they chose to use.

I get it, you don't like the term "rape" in "rape culture". I think that's kind of the point of why they chose that term. Look maybe you're right. Maybe it is a foolish term for them to have chosen, because the typical asshole narcissist who embodies rape culture is going to react defensively, as if he's the victim. But then again, I am not sure what kind of label would have worked, because quite frankly, no matter what they call it, those asshole narcissists are going to feel offended for having been called out. May as well give it a name with a kick.

[Deleted]

"Rape Culture" is a term invented by the feminist movement to define a set of problems emanating from a societal attitude. That makes their definition correct.

Yet what I quoted from wikipedia is not correct, because...? It uses the same definition that the feminists in Sweden uses for describing rape culture, just they do it in swedish rather than english.

[Raqubor]

Most can actually refrain from grabbing others when unwanted.

They can, and some can't. Your post is pointless.