List of World's Largest Executioners that DOESN'T Adjust for Population. Fake News?

[Sneezeburger]

There's an old saying that "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Today Amnesty International released its list of the world's largest executioners. China is on top, followed by Iran and Saudi Arabia. The United States is number 7. Somalia is number 8 (It's that little pointy part on the east of Africa.) That's a pretty damning statistic, right? The United States is actually a more egregious offender than SOMALIA, one of the most dangerous and lawless countries in the world.

Well, except that it isn't. Because the study, or at least the press release, does not adjust for population, e.g. calculating the number of people executed for every 100,000 people. Instead, they just list raw data and the United States, which executed 20 people out of over 300 million, is the same shade on the map below as Somalia, which executed 14 people out of approximately 12 million people. Not exactly comparable figures.

Meanwhile, Iran is actually a lighter shade than China, as Iran executed fewer than 1000 people in 2016. Iran, however, has a population of roughly 83 million, while China has a population over 1.3 BILLION people, yet China is made out to be the worse offender. (In fairness, the number of people executed in China is a state secret, so it could be worse even when adjusted for population).

Now, keep in mind, these figures do not come from getcuckedlibtards.blogspot.com. They're from Amnesty International, an organization which is presumably large and sophisticated enough to understand that simply posting raw data without adjustments for factors such as population can be EXTREMELY misleading and potentially worse than no data whatsoever. One need look no further than the white supremacists' affinity for crime statistics which, on their face, would appear supportive of their positions, but, when adjusted for factors such as income, education, and centuries of discrimination, are not.

Don't get me wrong. I do not support the death penalty and I think it's barbaric. But does this sort of shoddy reporting accomplish anything aside from making opponents of capital punishment look like shady used car salesmen?

Link to Amnesty International Release: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...s-and-figures/

[God Save The King]

Yeah it's pretty clear from even a cursory glance that the graph didn't account for population. They weren't trying to trick you with liberal propaganda.

[Heladys]

I wish we executed more.

[gilfanon]

I have now literally seen it all. Someone is actually arguing that China should not be considered the most egregious offender when it comes to the death penalty because "yeah, sure they summarily executed thousands of often innocent citizens with only a cursory nod towards judicial process, but look, there's billions of them, so they're not really making a dent- it's all good!" This world has gone fucking nuts.

[Sneezeburger]

The graph is exactly what they present it to be.

Right. And it's incredibly misleading. More people are going to get murdered in China than Honduras (the country with the world's highest murder rate) on any given year, but you wouldn't release a map with China being blood red with skulls all over it and have Honduras be lily white just because there were twice as many murders in China as Honduras.

[WskyDK]

There's literally nothing wrong with that graph. Accounting for population is meaningless when the discussion at hand is the total amount of executions that have happened.

[Sneezeburger]

I have now literally seen it all. Someone is actually arguing that China should not be considered the most egregious offender when it comes to the death penalty because "yeah, sure they summarily executed thousands of often innocent citizens with only a cursory nod towards judicial process, but look, there's billions of them, so they're not really making a dent- it's all good!" This world has gone fucking nuts.

If, adjusted for population, there is a country that executes more people than China, then yes, it is a more egregious offender. As noted above, however, we don't know how many people are executed annually in China. So we know it's really really bad, but we can't say for certain that China is a worse offender than Iran.

[WskyDK]

Right. And it's incredibly misleading. More people are going to get murdered in China than Honduras (the country with the world's highest murder rate) on any given year, but you wouldn't release a map with China being blood red with skulls all over it and have Honduras be lily white just because there were twice as many murders in China as Honduras.

If the map is representing the total number of murders, then comparatively China is going to be a different shade than Honduras.
Also, arguing about the colors.

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If, adjusted for population, there is a country that executes more people than China, then yes, it is a more egregious offender. As noted above, however, we don't know how many people are executed annually in China. So we know it's really really bad, but we can't say for certain that China is a worse offender than Iran.

If a country executes more people than another, it's worse. Total population doesn't matter.

[Sneezeburger]

There's literally nothing wrong with that graph. Accounting for population is meaningless when the discussion at hand is the total amount of executions that have happened.

Oh really? So a country with 50 people that executes 49 of them should be made to look better than a country with a billion people that executes 50 of them? Come on.

[zenkai]

I can't wait to add Dylann Roof to that number.

[Edge-]

Right. And it's incredibly misleading. More people are going to get murdered in China than Honduras (the country with the world's highest murder rate) on any given year, but you wouldn't release a map with China being blood red with skulls all over it and have Honduras be lily white just because there were twice as many murders in China as Honduras.

These are not murders, these are state executions.

Very different type of statistic.

[WskyDK]

Oh really? So a country with 50 people that executes 49 of them should be made to look better than a country with a billion people that executes 50 of them? Come on.

It doesn't matter.
You're arguing rate, while Amnesty is reporting volume.

[Crissi]

Sometimes, raw population is better than adjusted population rates. When you need to account for every individual, such as getting people to shelter, raw count is necessary. To that end, because people getting put to death are still individuals and the entire debate is on sheer amount of people being executed, raw data is fine.

Then you have to realize America gets so much shit because we have an over use of it compared to every other western nation.

[Sneezeburger]

These are not murders, these are state executions.

Very different type of statistic.

I wasn't comparing murders to executions in that example. I was comparing murders to murders. China is going to have more murders than Honduras because China has way, way more people than Honduras. But you would be laughed off the stage if you were to present a map of the world where China was presented as being more dangerous than Honduras.

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Sometimes, raw population is better than adjusted population rates. When you need to account for every individual, such as getting people to shelter, raw count is necessary. To that end, because people getting put to death are still individuals and the entire debate is on sheer amount of people being executed, raw data is fine.

Then you have to realize America gets so much shit because we have an over use of it compared to every other western nation.

Absolutely. As far as capital punishment is concerned, the United States is far worse than any other western nation. But it's a hell of a lot better than Somalia and you wouldn't know it from that image.

[Deleted]

China aside, look at North Korea's and Russia's color, then look at the US color. Yeah exactly.

[WskyDK]

Absolutely. As far as capital punishment is concerned, the United States is far worse than any other western nation. But it's a hell of a lot better than Somalia and you wouldn't know it from that image.

No, it's no better than Somalia when it comes to the number of persons executed by the government.

[Nynax]

It's the opposite of misleading. That someone might decide to not read the associated article or understand the graph and therefore draw the wrong conclusions is that person's responsibility, not the graph maker's. There is no attempt to deceive anyone or skew the impression. It's precisely what it is presented as.

Let's be honest, considering today's media use, it is entirely the responsibility of the designer to anticipate perception. Thing's like this, quick "shocking" snippets of information, are exactly the kind of things that allowed fake news to proliferate so far. If anyone intends to post information online responsibly you need to anticipate that. Saying "draw[ing] the wrong conclusions is that person's responsibility" only works in small numbers, because as soon as it becomes a wide spread misunderstanding it is a designer's failure.

[NED funded]

The image is literally raw numbers only. The coloring though is misleading af.

[Sneezeburger]

It doesn't matter.
You're arguing rate, while Amnesty is reporting volume.

It absolutely does matter, because if you haven't notice we don't live in a world where everyone who reads an article then crunches the numbers to see what the adjusted rates of executions are based on population to see who is actually the worst offender. Fortunately the only real consequence of this is likely to be increased pressure for the US to abolish the death penalty, which isn't a bad thing. But if you're going to present one half of the story, at least present the other half.

[Crissi]

China aside, look at North Korea's and Russia's color, then look at the US color. Yeah exactly.

its labeled under "exact figures undetermined", which generally means the amount is kept secret by the state. Doesnt make it invalid, as they did label it correctly. I personally would have combined it with the unknown catagory but thats just my inner cartographer speaking.

Also would have combined No executions with death penalty abolished, as the result is the same