[TV] The Flash!

[Kalcheus]

People are thinking that Savatar must be Ronnie, because Caitlin/Killer Frost immediately threw in with him upon seeing his real face, and who else but her dead husband would that woman immediately trust?

However, do you know who else trusted Savatar upon first meeting him "in person"?

• Julian. Because he appeared to him as his dead sister.
• Cisco. Because he appeared to him as his dead brother.
• Wally. Because he appeared to him as his dead mother.

I think it doesn't matter what Caitlin saw, because that's not who Savatar really is. And it would explain why Wally was in catatonia - he was beaten and broken by whoever Savatar appeared to him as during their fight (maybe his Mom again, maybe someone else).

I bet when his identity is revealed to Barry next week, he'll see one of his dead parents.

It's not a bad theory, it's just ... the previous appearances you've mentioned are from when Savitar was trapped in the Speed Force. No one else there saw Dante, just Cisco. So he wasn't manifesting physically, he was appearing in their heads.

But Savitar is real now; he's a physical being in a costume that's doing ... something for him.

[Gemini Soul]

People are thinking that Savatar must be Ronnie, because Caitlin/Killer Frost immediately threw in with him upon seeing his real face, and who else but her dead husband would that woman immediately trust?

However, do you know who else trusted Savatar upon first meeting him "in person"?

• Julian. Because he appeared to him as his dead sister.
• Cisco. Because he appeared to him as his dead brother.
• Wally. Because he appeared to him as his dead mother.

I think it doesn't matter what Caitlin saw, because that's not who Savatar really is. And it would explain why Wally was in catatonia - he was beaten and broken by whoever Savatar appeared to him as during their fight (maybe his Mom again, maybe someone else).

I bet when his identity is revealed to Barry next week, he'll see one of his dead parents.

That is a nice theory, i hope that his true face is one we haven't seen before. Would be a nice twist because of the last 2 evil speedsters being people we knew and the team knew.

[Svifnymr]

People are thinking that Savatar must be Ronnie, because Caitlin/Killer Frost immediately threw in with him upon seeing his real face, and who else but her dead husband would that woman immediately trust?

Even if it is Ronnie, it doesn't really make sense for Killer Frost to care about him.

Maybe someone from Legends? Did Killer Frost actually interact with anyone at all in previous stuff?

Earth2 had a Ronnie/Frost combo, but that Ronnie was a bad guy and Deathstorm was still Firestorm. It would seem like E1 Frost would rightly assume E1 Ronnie would try to get Caitlin back...

[Immitis]

johns has confirmed beast boy will be part of titans.

so

dick grayson as robin/nightwing
starfire
raven
beastboy

he also posted this on twitter

[Gemini Soul]

johns has confirmed beast boy will be part of titans.

so

dick grayson as robin/nightwing
starfire
raven
beastboy

he also posted this on twitter

That could easily be Mon-El from SG and Wally from Flash!

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Even if it is Ronnie, it doesn't really make sense for Killer Frost to care about him.

Maybe someone from Legends? Did Killer Frost actually interact with anyone at all in previous stuff?

Earth2 had a Ronnie/Frost combo, but that Ronnie was a bad guy and Deathstorm was still Firestorm. It would seem like E1 Frost would rightly assume E1 Ronnie would try to get Caitlin back...

Just made me think what if Savitar is... Snart!

[Kalcheus]

If it's not Future Barry, I'm going with Future Julian.

[Khime]

It's not a bad theory, it's just ... the previous appearances you've mentioned are from when Savitar was trapped in the Speed Force. No one else there saw Dante, just Cisco. So he wasn't manifesting physically, he was appearing in their heads.

But Savitar is real now; he's a physical being in a costume that's doing ... something for him.

Right, but it's still an aspect of his past appearances, so I'd really not be surprised if that turns out to be something that carries over even after he's out of the speed force. Heck, for all he know, he's Hannibal Bates/Everyman returned from the dead and using futuretech to be a speedster.

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On a different topic, we saw in the future that Cisco gets his hands frozen off, and Barry says he's going to do something about that. I bet we don't actually see anything Barry tells Cisco, or any of Cisco's preparations as a result. We'll just eventually see Vibe and Killer Frost fighting, and Cisco will have his hands frozen just like was saw in the future flashback... and then the ice will melt away as the heating elements Cisco installed in his gauntlets kick in to save his hands, just like they did in Barry's suit when Captain Cold froze him back in season 2.

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I'm also now 100% convinced Iris is not going to die. We just had an entire episode showing us "What happens to the team when Iris dies." From a narrative standpoint, the only real reason to devote a whole episode to that is because we'll not see their reactions to her death in the season finale, because it won't happen.

[Deleted]

Even if it is Ronnie, it doesn't really make sense for Killer Frost to care about him.

Yes cause she doesnt care about Ronnie.... do you even watch the show? Killer Frost and Firestorm have allways had a relationsship.

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If it's not Future Barry, I'm going with Future Julian.

which wouldnt make any sense at all.

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I'm also now 100% convinced Iris is not going to die. We just had an entire episode showing us "What happens to the team when Iris dies." From a narrative standpoint, the only real reason to devote a whole episode to that is because we'll not see their reactions to her death in the season finale, because it won't happen.

Ofc she wont. I hope guggie is not so silly to do the same stupidty twice....

[Ryken]

Cisco from the future said Barry created time remnants, which Savitar killed "mostly". Savitar is going to be a time remnant of Barry is my guess.

[Kalcheus]

which wouldnt make any sense at all.

Of course it does. The present Savitar is part of a closed loop: he escaped the prison that Barry sets for him in the future. But how did he get there to begin with? The people "cleared" by their presence in 2024 aren't actually cleared; it was a misdirect to throw you off the scent.

In the far future Julian blames Flash for what eventually happens to Caitlin; it's why he kills Iris.

[fakaroonie]

It's not Julian come on, you saw the man from behind, he was not blonde.

He is either Ronnie or Barry, or someone completely random and unexpected, like one of Zoom's remnants.

[Kalcheus]

It's not Julian come on, you saw the man from behind, he was not blonde.

"Caitlin can't be killer frost, her hair isn't white"

[Kalcheus]

If Julian is Savitar and loves Caitlin so much why would he have left her locked up in that future?

In the past. Savitar is Julian post-2024 in this scenario. Julian is still trying to find a cure for her in 2024. Obviously impossible to know at this point for sure, but maybe in, say, 2026 he accidentally kills her trying to cure her, and that triggers the break that makes him Savitar.

Don't get me wrong, there are definitely some potential paradoxes/timey-wimey crap in this scenario ... but the writers haven't let that stop them before.

In short, the case for Julian:
He lurves Caitlin
He was Alchemy (who better than Savitar to contact than himself?)
He does not exist in the show before the Flashpoint that made Earth 1 Caitlin become Killer Frost. For all we know, Savitar "encouraged" Julian while he was blacked out as Alchemy to become a forensic scientist in CCPD so that he could learn what he needed to do to punish Flash (YES, THIS IS TOTALLY A PREDESTINATION PARADOX, but again, I don't think the writers would let that stop him).

All this said, it could still be Barry or someone else in the suit. But there's an internal logic to this choice that kinda makes sense considering what else is happening on the show.

[Khime]

Ofc she wont. I hope guggie is not so silly to do the same stupidty twice....

Funny thing is, Iris died in the comics. It was a big part of Barry's canon.

[Kalcheus]

Funny thing is, Iris died in the comics. It was a big part of Barry's canon.

That was the original Barry, right? I thought in the latest post-whatever world that restored Barry that Iris was still alive (or maybe I'm not current enough).

[Gemini Soul]

We will find out in a few days who he is under that armor, I think its a person we have never seen before. They already played the "friend who helps" who is really the bad guy 3 times already with RF, Zoom, and Alc PLUS they used it once this season already. If they played that card again it makes the writers/creators nothing more than one trick pony's.

I would be severely disappointed if its Julian, Ronnie, future Barry, or Dante. I'm just glad they said next seasons main baddie wont be a speedster, because after 3 seasons its pretty clear hes not the fastest man alive regardless of what he says during the intro.

[Svifnymr]

Yes cause she doesnt care about Ronnie.... do you even watch the show? Killer Frost and Firestorm have allways had a relationsship.

Well, again, Caitlin cared about Ronnie. She also cared about Cisco (but will freeze his hands off) and Barry (but helps Savitar) and many other things. Killer Frost is for whatever reason the opposite of Caitlin and WANTS to be.

Sure in Comics the two are linked (and I like the idea of Killer Frost stealing warmth, but the TV doesn't do that) and on Earth 2 Ronnie was a bad guy, but Earth1 Ronnie was a good guy, and I don't see why she'd trust him to let her be Killer Frost.

It should be someone that Caitlin can trust to give her full reign of her powers, but I really can't think of anyone in the series. Julian maybe, but I agree it just doesn't fit.

[apepi]

I think that is could be Jay Garrick being stuck in the Speed Force for so long and it makes him go crazy.

[Khime]

That was the original Barry, right? I thought in the latest post-whatever world that restored Barry that Iris was still alive (or maybe I'm not current enough).

Well, technically, pre-"New 52" Iris West Allen was actually from the 30th Century, and her consciousness returned to that era after the Reverse Flash killed her, where her 30th century biological parents placed her consciousness into a new body. Barry is reunited with her after he is put on trial for the murder of the Reverse Flash, and they stay together there long enough for Iris to conceive twins (Don and Dawn) before he returns to the 20th Century to die in the Crisis of Infinite Earths (which is referenced in thw show by the 'Flash Missing Vanishes In Crisis' and 'Red Skies Vanish' stories in the 2024 newspaper). Iris eventually returns to the 20th Century, by which time her nephew Wally has taken on the mantle of The Flash.

Post Flashpoint/New 52 reboot, though, thanks to Doctor Manhattan stealing 10 years (plus hope) from the DC Universe, everything about their relationship was messed up anyway, and the original Wally West never even existed, so I mentally edit that mess out of my Barry Allen 'canon'.

[Kalcheus]

This probably doesn't mean anything, but the "I am the future, flash" line did NOT have a comma in the "previously on" segment. Typically, tho, those aren't done by a professional captioning service (which tends to work off the script), so I'm going with it being a mistake.

For the record, the flashback didn't have a comma