Do you think all criminals can be rehabilitated?

[Alydael]

I'm in the same boat as you (I know people like that). Some people just don't give a crap. Can't help people who don't want it.

Exactly.

I believe that people not exposed to that do not understand that some people just do not give a f$$k. About anything, including themselves......

[Thandrend]

Sociopathic criminals probably cannot all be rehabilitated, as their crimes generally deal with mental illnesses.

Petty criminals certainly can be, as most of the time, their crimes were committed out of desperation.

[Auxora]

The problem is there isn't really any way to know if someone is truly rehabilitated or not. It's easy enough to go in front of a probation board or psychologist and lie, and just say that you feel terrible about what you did and won't do it again.

So IMO the justice system has to penalize people for whatever crime they did for the full time. Rehabilitate them as much as possible while they are doing their time to help them and society within reasonable cost (except for life sentences), but don't reduce the sentence based on them "seeming" rehabilitated. It shouldn't be someone is convicted of rape and sentenced to 15 years, and then a doctor or parole board thinks they seem rehabilitated after 5 years and lets them out. Rehabilitation shouldn't be tied to release, it should just be an additional effort to help the inmate and society try to become a normal civilian as much as possible.

BTW an interesting stat that shows why we can't rely on rehabilitation..."according to a report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) about 68 percent of 405,000 prisoners released in 30 states in 2005 were arrested for a new crime within three years of their release from prison, and 77 percent were arrested within five years."

[Wildberry]

Being a nazi isn't a thought crime. It's a declaration of war on people of color, transgender people, and women. When you proudly declare yourself a nazi, it's not thought crime: you're declaring an endgame of segregation and genocide.

Nazi sympathizers are barely better, and belong in cells adjacent to the filth they defend.

You can kindly fuck off now.

Yeah, no sorry, ethnocentrism isn't a "declaration of war." Give me a break, Antifa. Who said anything about Nazi sympathizers? I just think it's absurd, childish and anti-liberal to declare that X political identification should be a crime.

Pray tell, do you have the same opinion on Communists?

[Anastacy]

If I killed a child in the backseat of a car that I had stolen, I'm not sure I would want to be rehabilitated.

Like, I "get better", right? I still have to live with what I've done. I doubt I'd feel very good about myself.

[Nyoken]

Stealing candy in the store...sure sure, a lesson to be learned there. Robbing a store without hurting people?? Sure sure. Stealing a car? Yepp.

Murdering PEOPLE???.........I'd be happy to put a bullet in the head of those people myself.

[triplesdsu]

If we had the proper tools, the right people and the right words, perhaps. But we don't.

We medicate and treat all things, both mental and physical illness. A schizo gets meds so the voices stop. A drug addict gets rehabilitation to get off the drugs. An amputee gets crutches/wheelchair/prosthesis. Getting a criminal to function "normally" again is doable for most, though in some cases it requires a kind of effort, tools, money and people that we don't have or don't want to spend on such an effort depending on the criminal.

I say this as someone who's known former addicts and former criminals. THeir stories have many things in common on how they changed their life. But those things are usually difficult and involve people in a huge capacity, people who are in a system that is uncaring and dismissive, even hateful.

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A murder isn't black and white either. You could defend yourself or kill someone for a reason you considered just at the time, and still be convicted a murderer.
Soldiers are hired killers. Sanctioned government murderers. They get away with killing all the time because we've deemed it justifiable. But your enemy usually disagrees and will deem their enemies murderers that they could never forgive.

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And 99% of the time that's because they have nothing else and nobody else to turn to. They fall back into it because there's nothing else for them and the world rejects them. Of course they fall back, when the only friends they have are other criminals. Of course they fall back when their lives are in shambles, they can't find jobs let alone keep one for the previous mentioned reasons. So they're also poor.
That keeps them in criminality.

Bring them out of it. Give them a new place to be, with new people and many more will rehabilitate properly. But they also need guidance, they need help.

Thats not even close to true 99 percent of the time. A lot of them simply dont give a shit. Have no desire to change or care about what they do is wrong. You are naive beyond words if you honestly think that all criminals simply do things out of desperation. Maybe a few. But for many their values and morals are nowhere in line with normal people.

[Hooked]

Caning seems to work in Asian countries, plus they don't keep people locked up. Makes me wonder whats worse, caning or whipping a criminal then letting them go home, or keeping them locked in a cage full of other criminals for years.

[Not A Cat]

When it comes to things like drugs, certainly, drug addiction is a disease and should be treated as such.

However, when it comes to violent crimes there's definitely a line that needs to be drawn. If someone is incredibly dangerous in a certain population, then I think removing them should take priority over rehabilitating them.

[namecraft]

can't change the criminally insane

[Fabinas]

If a person does not want to change, they never do. Thinking that there is a certain way you can use to rehabilitate every case of criminals is not realistic. Incarcerate, investigate and if you find there can be a seed of remorse, proceed to rehabilitation.

[Moon-Man]

Not all Criminals.

Pedophiles (who DID the crime, not who have pedo manga or w/e). Saying that, Pedos who raped kids, should be OUTRIGHT be executed.

[Astalnar]

No. Dr. Martin Daly did extensive research on the topic discovering that prison doesn't help, as it just ends up elevating the person who comitted the heinous crime by attaining enough street cred to be considered dangerous, and not to mess with, thus ensuring they have little chance of getting away from criminal life because now they are "good" at it. He even suggest that the only measure that could work, would be a punitive one, but since we live in the "enlightened" times that is too cruel.

I mean, why would we want to move the dangerous elements to society from the city streets permanently, when we can generate outrage whenever something like that happens.

You can read on all the relevant works here (just look for anything with "homicide" in title):
http://www.martindaly.ca/publications.html

[Seidhe]

Funny thing to say most of you here talks about that those people who shoot 6yo child shouldnt or cant be rehabitated. I bet if those guys shoot 30-40yo grown man you might think differently. In my opinion all people are equal. We all started to realise it in case of some minoryties like gays, other races, but why you value child or pregnant mother life higher than typical 30yo man? Do you realsie that this child might be same criminal in next 10-15 years? Nature seeded this thing about protecting those so deep in us.. In fact i value life of good grown man or woman with normal+ habits much higher than a life of random child, who cna be anything in his life.

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When it comes to things like drugs, certainly, drug addiction is a disease and should be treated as such.

However, when it comes to violent crimes there's definitely a line that needs to be drawn. If someone is incredibly dangerous in a certain population, then I think removing them should take priority over rehabilitating them.

drug-addicted can do same crimes to get drugs like other criminals.

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Not all Criminals.

Pedophiles (who DID the crime, not who have pedo manga or w/e). Saying that, Pedos who raped kids, should be OUTRIGHT be executed.

So man who killed pair of two grown man can be rehabitated. In this case you Cant ressurect those.
And pedo who didnt even kill cant be? In this case you can cure those mental issues for child that became victim sometimes.


I think you either try to rehabitate ALL criminals, or noone. You cant judge which crime could be or not.

[Cheze]

there are probably a tiny number of criminals who truly can't be rehabilitated: your charles mansons, your drug kingpins running their criminal enterprises from prison, etc. But the vast majority can be.

I mean, take the crime in the OP: it was committed by teenagers. I don't really care how fucked up a thing someone does at age 15, with proper rehabilitation (including incarceration) they can certainly do something productive with the balance of their time on earth. Vengeance is cathartic I guess, but fuck it's the 21st century, get a better worldview

[Low Hanging Fruit]

ALL? No.

MANY? Yes.

[Not A Cat]

drug-addicted can do same crimes to get drugs like other criminals.

Yes, violent crime, I referred to that in the second half of my post. Violent crime influenced by drugs is still violent crime.

[Eazy]

No. I believe that real evil exists. Some people are sadistic and take pleasure out of causing pain and suffering, and have zero remorse. There are some people who cannot ever be rehabilitated, and in fact don't really want to be. There will always be psychopaths, sadists, predators and opportunists.

You cannot believe that, because it's not faith. You just know that there is real evil, it's a fact. There were plenty of people withour any remorse.

[xindralol]

Caning seems to work in Asian countries, plus they don't keep people locked up. Makes me wonder whats worse, caning or whipping a criminal then letting them go home, or keeping them locked in a cage full of other criminals for years.

Well, only one of those is an eighth amendment violation!

@OT: I believe 99% of criminals could be 'rehabilitated' but the cost would be insurmountable for society (it's already much too expensive locking people up the way we do). While some might be converted to become useful citizens again with a relatively small investment in time and money, the majority of offenders (who actually serve prison time, ie. cost the system a fortune) might be predisposed both by their social background/living environment and upbringing which makes them far more expensive and time intensive to rehabilitate.

We have to remember the our 'goals' for punishing criminals (been a while I don't remember the exact terms):
- Deterrence: Both proactively for possible future criminals and to deter recidivism in the punished offender
- Just Deserts/Retribution: This is like the biblical eye for an eye - D did something socially reprehensible thus they receive a punishment.
- Political: This is for example the public hangings, guillotine etc.; a just society needs to be tough on crime.
- Public Safety: We lock people up to prevent them from killing again, have sex offenders register locally to protect the public. Historically we cut off fingers of thieves (this is of course arguable for public safety!)

I probably forgot something but I think it's important to remember that rehabilitation isn't our only goal (though the attempt is an admirable one!)

[Hooked]

Well, only one of those is an eighth amendment violation!

Given the choice would you rather be whipped or thrown into a cage away from your family for years? I seriously think caning or whipping should be an option to criminal punishment. Its too expensive to house so many criminals who were never taught right from wrong. Give them a good beating and maybe they will learn right from wrong.

We are 20 trillion dollars in debt and crime has been on the rise. We don't have room for all these criminals. We need to have an alternate plan. That plan is either being caned or whipped then let go the same day for minor criminal violations.

In my opinion it is fair and just. It wouldn't matter if you are rich or poor, take a whipping or go to jail, your choice. Of course serious crimes wouldn't have the option.