Ornyx - Laying the smack down!

[Onikaroshi]

I am sorry, but that's called "the guy did nearly all content there is, just not on the highest difficulty". You like multiple difficulties, good for you. He doesn't. He isn't alone in that. He did all of it from his point of view and nobody has any business saying "noooooo, you only did 25%, you are trolling". And most certainly not a blue.

He chose to limit himself to that, that's his decision, you can't choose to keep yourself to 25% of the content and then bitch about it. If all you do is pet battles, you can't sit there and say, well I finished every pet battle, legion has no content.

It's like removing 75% of the toppings from your burger and then calling it bland.

[Trapped]

I am sorry, but that's called "the guy did nearly all content there is, just not on the highest difficulty". You like multiple difficulties, good for you. He doesn't. He isn't alone in that. He did all of it from his point of view and nobody has any business saying "noooooo, you only did 25%, you are trolling". And most certainly not a blue.

Exactly. If doing +2 dungeons and LFR is the content that the player likes to do, then he's completed 100% of the content he enjoys. Different difficulties =/= more content.

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He chose to limit himself to that, that's his decision, you can't choose to keep yourself to 25% of the content and then bitch about it. If all you do is pet battles, you can't sit there and say, well I finished every pet battle, legion has no content.

Why can't you say that? If you only sub to do pet battles, and you finished them all early, wouldn't it be justified to say that there's not enough content for you? People will complain about a lack of raids if there's a lack of raids. People will complain about a lack of dungeons if there's a lack of dungeons.

[rda]

He chose to limit himself to that, that's his decision, you can't choose to keep yourself to 25% of the content and then bitch about it. If all you do is pet battles, you can't sit there and say, well I finished every pet battle, legion has no content.

It's like removing 75% of the toppings from your burger and then calling it bland.

No, it's like eating one burger and not ordering another 3 copies of the same burger with slightly different toppings, then saying "your burgers are not good" and getting yelled at "but you didn't even try them all!!!!!".

[Trapped]

No, it's like eating one burger and not ordering another 5 copies of the same burger with slightly different toppings, then saying "your burgers are not good" and getting yelled at "but you didn't even try them all!!!!!".

I like it. WoW has a shit ton of toppings, but the same old bland burger. They try adding new toppings every expansion, but in the end, its still the same.

[rda]

To put it blatantly simple: do you have a troll hunter? no? then you have content to do. yes? ok, did you down Yogg-Saron with that hunter, on a Friday, in a yellow outfit, with a wolf pet? no? then you have content to do.

That's the level of logic in "if you didn't do mythic+500, you have no right to say you have nothing to do".

[Onikaroshi]

Exactly. If doing +2 dungeons and LFR is the content that the player likes to do, then he's completed 100% of the content he enjoys. Different difficulties =/= more content.

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Why can't you say that? If you only sub to do pet battles, and you finished them all early, wouldn't it be justified to say that there's not enough content for you? People will complain about a lack of raids if there's a lack of raids. People will complain about a lack of dungeons if there's a lack of dungeons.

No, it's like eating one burger and not ordering another 3 copies of the same burger with slightly different toppings, then saying "your burgers are not good" and getting yelled at "but you didn't even try them all!!!!!".

Then he's finished the game woo hoo! Unsub and wait for next patch, the little box that asks why you unsubbed will let you give the same info you gave in the post without cluttering the forums with useless whining, there's enough of that already.

I don't like pvp, but I'm not going to bitch and complain that pvp isn't content because I choose not to do it. People either need to broaden their horizons or quit, they've offered more to do in legion than any other recent expansion that didn't take you forever to level (thereby making leveling more content than it is now). WoD had zero content for basically ANYONE outside of raiding, but people forget that.

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I like it. WoW has a shit ton of toppings, but the same old bland burger. They try adding new toppings every expansion, but in the end, its still the same.

Then why do you keep playing, you obviously don't like it so why hang on.

[rda]

Then he's finished the game woo hoo! Unsub and wait for next patch, the little box that asks why you unsubbed will let you give the same info you gave in the post without cluttering the forums with useless whining, there's enough of that already.

He thanks you for your advice.

Now, was it right of Ornyx to go into a player's armory and say "you did nothing, you have no right to complain"? Or was it unprofessional?

[Trapped]

Then he's finished the game woo hoo! Unsub and wait for next patch, the little box that asks why you unsubbed will let you give the same info you gave in the post without cluttering the forums with useless whining, there's enough of that already.

I don't like pvp, but I'm not going to bitch and complain that pvp isn't content because I choose not to do it. People either need to broaden their horizons or quit, they've offered more to do in legion than any other recent expansion that didn't take you forever to level (thereby making leveling more content than it is now). WoD had zero content for basically ANYONE outside of raiding, but people forget that.

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Then why do you keep playing, you obviously don't like it so why hang on.

Don't forget people make posts about "no content" in every single expansion, yet, they get ignored. I can't recall any time in my 11 years of WoW when a Blizzard employee looked up a player's achievements and called him out on his rant. Even if it was justified, it doesn't mater. You don't need to be a top end Mythic Raider, PvP Gladiator, Loremaster of the Broken Isles, every class to 110 decked out in 900+ ilevel gear to post an opinion on an internet forum about whether or not the expansion in question is lacking in content. That's my real beef about how Ornyx handled the situation. Putting a figure (25%) on a player's progression in Legion is an extremely subjective thing to do. 25% for one player is 100% for another.

[Onikaroshi]

He thanks you for your advice.

Now, was it right of Ornyx to go into a player's armory and say "you did nothing, you have no right to complain"? Or was it unprofessional?

It was not unprofessional, it was funny, hilarious, and I hope there's more. He called out directly to ornyx which is why he got called out directly.

There's a difference in having no content for yourself and pretending there's no content at all.

[rda]

It was not unprofessional, it was funny, hilarious, and I hope there's more. He called out directly to ornyx which is why he got called out directly.

Yeah, OK. We disagree. It was completely unprofessional. Try calling out a customer on a public forum on your job, then see what happens.

[Onikaroshi]

Don't forget people make posts about "no content" in every single expansion, yet, they get ignored. I can't recall any time in my 11 years of WoW when a Blizzard employee looked up a player's achievements and called him out on his rant. Even if it was justified, it doesn't mater. You don't need to be a top end Mythic Raider, PvP Gladiator, Loremaster of the Broken Isles, every class to 110 decked out in 900+ ilevel gear to post an opinion on an internet forum about whether or not the expansion in question is lacking in content. That's my real beef about how Ornyx handled the situation. Putting a figure (25%) on a player's progression in Legion is an extremely subjective thing to do. 25% for one player is 100% for another.

He specifically said there was no content, not that there was no content for him. I would have a responded the same, you can't say there's "No content in legion" if there's no content for you, you can say there's "no content for me". If he had said "what else is there for me?" then it would have been handled improperly because the better answer would have been to ask what the customer wanted, instead the guy acted like because he was done with the content HE wanted to do, there was no content at all.

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Yeah, OK. We disagree. It was completely unprofessional. Try calling out a customer on a public forum on your job, then see what happens.

I called out people all the time when I worked customer service, people are hilariously dumb:

Complaining that there's no bones in boneless chicken wings

Complaining that their food was burnt AFTER they ate it

Complaining that game has Zero content, when they really mean zero content for them specifically.

[corebit]

So if I don't like every single thing in the game, it's my fault and I need to man up? What are you even saying? For the record, I have 4 kids and a full-time job, and haven't gone past LFR in two expansions, so I think you're pissing up the wrong tree.

Although it is always nice to have an opinion on the Internet and then have a tough guy come along to point out how wrong it is, based on literally nothing but reading incomprehension, so thanks for that.

You are free to dislike whatever you want, and do whatever content you want, that's not the point being discussed here. However, if you barely do any content and then dishonestly say there's no content, expect to get called out on it.

If you want to mean there is no content that you enjoy, that's an entirely different issue, but then you need to write that clearly.

If you think calling out a dishonest statement by pointing out facts is "unprofessional" behavior, then you and I have very different definitions of professionalism and have nothing further to discuss.

[Deleted]

No its not, you can see how many prestige levels he has, what quests hes done, how many pets or mog items hes collected. It's a pretty exhaustive list and its clear the dudes done very little. How much appeals to him is another matter.

It's character specific though regardless

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What is it exactly that you enjoy then? Isn't dungeons and raids the core of the game? Everything you do as a character leads up to doing stuff in dungeons and raids.

Only if you lack imagination

I play WoW for quests, story, RP and collecting stuff. I have only done 5 Mythics and probably done LFR less than 50x since September. Dungeons and raids are like 25% for me

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Even so, looking at his achievements, he has just barely finished all the mythic dungeons on may 15th. The game has been out for almost a year and the dude just finished doing mythic dungeons? So yeah he has more content to do that he just doesn't do. And completing the nighthold on LFR? Yeah that doesn't really count as doing "content." the moment he enters normal / heroic / mythic, thats when he can say hes actually done any meaningful content.

The minority do Mythic +

[Onikaroshi]

You are free to dislike whatever you want, and do whatever content you want, that's not the point being discussed here. However, if you barely do any content and then dishonestly say there's no content, expect to get called out on it.

If you want to mean there is no content that you enjoy, that's an entirely different issue, but then you need to write that clearly.

If you think calling out a dishonest statement by pointing out facts is "unprofessional" behavior, then you and I have very different definitions of professionalism and have nothing further to discuss.

And that's it right there, the whole reason Ornyx was justified in his response, he said "what else is there".

If the poster had said "what else is there 'for me'" and Ornyx had responded the same he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the support. The proper response to that one would have been more along the lines of "what are you looking for in terms of content"

[Jimson]

You are free to dislike whatever you want, and do whatever content you want, that's not the point being discussed here. However, if you barely do any content and then dishonestly say there's no content, expect to get called out on it.

If you want to mean there is no content that you enjoy, that's an entirely different issue, but then you need to write that clearly.

If you think calling out a dishonest statement by pointing out facts is "unprofessional" behavior, then you and I have very different definitions of professionalism and have nothing further to discuss.

I feel like you're responding to me based on what someone else said. I never wrote anything about whether it's unprofessional, and in fact I noted that the forum poster should have said "There's no content I enjoy." I also said something along the lines of "I am enjoying Legion."

[Arbs]

Well Done Ornyx

[Jonsno]

It's character specific though regardless

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Easy to tell the achievements on his account aren't character specific though. He has an achievement for lfr/normal progress that he hasn't got on the character he's currently playing

[Onikaroshi]

I feel like you're responding to me based on what someone else said. I never wrote anything about whether it's unprofessional, and in fact I noted that the forum poster should have said "There's no content I enjoy." I also said something along the lines of "I am enjoying Legion."

And that's the thing people don't understand, and the entire reason Ornyx was correct in his response

To copy from my other post:

It all comes down to 2 statements though, one always false (until the servers cease to exist) and one always true.

Saying there is no content is always false, there is always content to do just content you choose not do. Using this particular argument in a statement is cause to get you jumped on and called out because you're basically trying to make true a statement that can never be true.

Saying there is no content FOR YOU is always true, only you can decided when you've finished the content that you enjoy. Now, posting constructively using this statement is something that can be discussed because well, people can always discuss what is content to them and what they would like added (though there's still limited time and resources so not everything can be added)

If he had said "what else is there FOR ME" Ornyx would have been COMPLETELY wrong in the response to him.

[hyphnos]

And that's the thing people don't understand, and the entire reason Ornyx was correct in his response

To copy from my other post:

It all comes down to 2 statements though, one always false (until the servers cease to exist) and one always true.

Saying there is no content is always false, there is always content to do just content you choose not do. Using this particular argument in a statement is cause to get you jumped on and called out because you're basically trying to make true a statement that can never be true.

Saying there is no content FOR YOU is always true, only you can decided when you've finished the content that you enjoy. Now, posting constructively using this statement is something that can be discussed because well, people can always discuss what is content to them and what they would like added (though there's still limited time and resources so not everything can be added)

If he had said "what else is there FOR ME" Ornyx would have been COMPLETELY wrong in the response to him.

So in other words, Ornyx was completely wrong because it should be understood by everyone with an iota of common sense that when someone says there's "no content" that they always mean, "no content of interest TO ME". The person posting is well aware of what the content is and from the sound of it has done more than a made up, undefined statistic of "25%.

Taking something someone says literally and then proceeding to not use common sense to make up a false statistic to discount the persons statement is, as you said, entirely wrong.

In any case, the disturbing thing is that instead of asking the player what is it you don't like about this or that content that it appears you haven't done, the CM representing the business decides it is the customer's fault for not doing the content and doesn't try to get at the source of their discontent, they merely attack the player based on bogus statistics to try to discredit a totally subjective and valid complaint.

Blizzard could make 10 billion hours worth of candy crush content and stick it in game and that would not make anyone who complained that there was no content wrong because they hadn't completed even .00001% of the content. Content that is ignored or deemed not worth doing or as Blizzard discovered by splitting content into shit for 36 specs of whatever isn't seen, may as well not exist regardless of how much work or cost went into making it and it's not the customer's problem that the work isn't perceived as being useful.

[Onikaroshi]

So in other words, Ornyx was completely wrong because it should be understood by everyone with an iota of common sense that when someone says there's "no content" that they always mean, "no content of interest TO ME". The person posting is well aware of what the content is and from the sound of it has done more than a made up, undefined statistic of "25%.

Taking something someone says literally and then proceeding to not use common sense to make up a false statistic to discount the persons statement is, as you said, entirely wrong.

In any case, the disturbing thing is that instead of asking the player what is it you don't like about this or that content that it appears you haven't done, the CM representing the business decides it is the customer's fault for not doing the content and doesn't try to get at the source of their discontent, they merely attack the player based on bogus statistics to try to discredit a totally subjective and valid complaint.

Blizzard could make 10 billion hours worth of candy crush content and stick it in game and that would not make anyone who complained that there was no content wrong because they hadn't completed even .00001% of the content. Content that is ignored or deemed not worth doing or as Blizzard discovered by splitting content into shit for 36 specs of whatever isn't seen, may as well not exist regardless of how much work or cost went into making it and it's not the customer's problem that the work isn't perceived as being useful.

Because if someone is stupid enough to say there's no content, you deserve to be called out on it. It's called wording things properly. A blizzard poster is going to respond DIRECTLY to what the person said, NOT reading between the lines because its better to be direct in a business then "read between the lines" and get it wrong.